HDMI cables, expensive vs cheap

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.
A

Anonymous

Guest
Gerrardasnails:An old scary cable doing as good a job as a £100 hdmi cable? This makes you sound very ignorant and your story totally unbelievable.

Joe Blow has a new "HD Ready" TV. His sources are a Sky box and a regular DVD player. Do his sources justify a £100 HDMI cable? No. Won't stop the electrical store salesman trying to sell him one though.

I rest my case.
 

Alec

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2007
478
0
18,890
Visit site
maxflinn:

what i dont get is , if , as i understand it , data transported via a hdmi cable , is like a puzzle , and only if every piece of that puzzle is transported correctly , do you see a picture/sound ..

how then can cables vary ?? isnt it a contradiction in terms to suggest that they do ???

and before anyone replies with , oh theres more to it than that , can they elaborate what" more" exactly is ??

At the risk of provoking more wrath, the qed site gives teh best lamans explanation i have read. im not sayng i buy it or i dont, just that it appears vaguely cogent.

EDIT typo a go go again!
 

Alec

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2007
478
0
18,890
Visit site
canada16:

I trust the gadget show test that they did, I know some dont like them, but jason has some sort of masters from MIT and or something else like that, apparantly he is a genius...

Respectfully, I'm not sure this is true, and if it is im not sure it means much.

His blog site and his wki entry make nothing at all of the qualifications you mention, just a career in presenting, comedy, and writing.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
al7478:maxflinn:

what i dont get is , if , as i understand it , data transported via a hdmi cable , is like a puzzle , and only if every piece of that puzzle is transported correctly , do you see a picture/sound ..

how then can cables vary ?? isnt it a contradiction in terms to suggest that they do ???

and before anyone replies with , oh theres more to it than that , can they elaborate what" more" exactly is ??

At the risk of provoking more wrath, the qed site gives teh best lamans explanation i have read. im not sayng i buy it or i dont, just that it appears vaguely cogent.

EDIT typo a go go again!
ill check that out ...
 

Alec

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2007
478
0
18,890
Visit site
bigboss:al7478:

I'm not arguing, you understand, just saying.

??

I know you're not arguing.

Nice one, just wanted to make sure
emotion-21.gif
 

Gerrardasnails

Well-known member
Sep 6, 2007
295
1
18,890
Visit site
Darren Heal:
Gerrardasnails:An old scary cable doing as good a job as a £100 hdmi cable? This makes you sound very ignorant and your story totally unbelievable.

Joe Blow has a new "HD Ready" TV. His sources are a Sky box and a regular DVD player. Do his sources justify a £100 HDMI cable? No. Won't stop the electrical store salesman trying to sell him one though.

I rest my case.

What has that got to do with you assertion that a scart cable can match an hdmi cable £5 let alone £100).
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Gerrardasnails:Darren Heal:

Gerrardasnails:An old scary cable doing as good a job as a £100 hdmi cable? This makes you sound very ignorant and your story totally unbelievable.

Joe Blow has a new "HD Ready" TV. His sources are a Sky box and a regular DVD player. Do his sources justify a £100 HDMI cable? No. Won't stop the electrical store salesman trying to sell him one though.

I rest my case.

What has that got to do with you assertion that a scart cable can match an hdmi cable £5 let alone £100).

I didn't say that. What I said was that I believe certain less than scrupulous electrical retailers are selling TVs etc. at or below cost to get punters in the door, then making their profit on over-priced cables. Cables that the specification of which simply isn't justified by the performance of the devices they're connecting.
 
D

Deleted member 2457

Guest
I have had a future av shop's trying to put several £100+ hdmi cable's in my deals in the past. No thanks

£50 - £75 is as far as I would go.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
from q.ed.

For an HDMI cable to
perform perfectly it requires precision conductor
geometry, equally precise construction and of
course, the highest quality materials.

my two freebies work perfect , they must have the above then ??

You don't need to know what's going on inside the cable, that's our job

no , i absolutely do want to know ...

HDMI is currently specified to carry up to 10.2 Giga bits of
uncompressed video, multi-flavoured audio and control signals every
second. That's the equivalent of 700 simultaneous HDTV broadcasts,
1,000 parallel high-speed broadband connections or the music from
7,500 CD players side by side, all playing at once. So actually, it's very
fast indeed.

wow , must be cheap to make too , cos my freebies do all of the above...

Having reduced the whole of the high-definition audio and video
experience down to these four sets of wires, the end result is a 'clock'
and three 'streams' of 1s and 0s (highs and lows, ups and downs).
But these aren't the only signals. The second part of the story is the
existence of additional 'control lines' (over and above the wires
discussed so far). These are used to keep the sending and receiving
equipment, at either end of the cable, successfully talking to each
other. Although they conduct much slower signals than the main wires,
without these 'control line' connections there would be no pictures or
sound.

i get pictures and sound , so my freebies must also , remarkably , contain the above ..

care still needs to be
taken to ensure these signals arrive cleanly at the other end. Needless
to say, QED takes that care.

then whoever made my freebies must also have taken that CARE , cos i have a picture..

Do you know if your TV
does 3Gbps or 4Gbps? Do you (or indeed anyone) actually care?

nope , and i dont care , cos i have a blinding picture on it , using my freebies...

Poor
choice of materials, imprecise control of cable
geometries during manufacture, as well
as physical imperfections and
construction tolerances are
all sources of error
which can
degrade performance,
even after the original design has
been passed as adequate.

but if there is an error , you wont get a picture/sound , so my freebies contain no manufacturers errors ..

To use an analogy, if someone fires a gun at
you, there are some who would argue that
being missed by just one inch is exactly the
same as being missed by a mile. However,
when the gun is being fired as often as it is in
an HDMI cable, and in addition, being fired
from a hand that is shaking (however minutely)
I personally would feel a lot happier if I was
confident the bullet would miss by a mile!

to use another analogy ,

EDITED BY MODS

Another hidden headache is, even if the cable
achieves perfect transmission of the audio
and video; a fault in the important
'communication' wires, can still stop the
picture appearing. To be successful on every
occasion, the cable designer must ensure the
control lines are correctly maintained for all
cables and for all lengths.

i always have a picture , so my freebies must have perfect communication wires..

if the communication lines are
clean, but the cable cannot cope with the
highest resolutions needed, then the two
connected devices will tell each other that a
higher resolution is possible and switch to
that mode, again resulting in a blank screen!

yup , my screen isnt blank...

We know every QED cable is fully up to the job
because that's the way we design them. Each
one conforms to our described geometry and,
from inside to out, is carefully crafted from our
chosen materials. QED doesn't use anyone
else's cable; and we don't make cables for
anyone else.

carefully crafted from our chosen materials , hmmm , by a robot , nostalgic...

So, the complexity is removed. We've handled
the complication and what remains is only
the reassurance you need to make a
simple choice.

ok , ill stick with my freebies , cheers....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
To be fair to QED, nothing said on that page is untrue (unlike other manufacturers who will spin lies and make up unsubstantiated "facts" based on pseudo science). But the rhetoric is clever. Nowhere on that page do they actually claim that their expensive cables yield better results than a £10 cable which also conforms to the HDMI specifications, so I don't see how it can be used to substantiate the claim that expensive HDMI cables make "better" picture and sound? Their whole argument appears to be that their cables are future proof (come 16bit per channel, higher resultions, etc). But it would make more sense to buy a £10 cable now and another £10 cable later if need be, in order to support future standards, than taking a chance and forking up £120 on a QED cable today...

The evidence against subjective differences in HDMI cables is overwhelming with some pretty heavy names and objective measurements/analysis behind it (eg this IEEE chap, as was quoted earlier). The ones arguing for expensive HDMI cables are the manufacturers, certain publications that won't even describe how they come to their results and conclusions, and by the looks of it, a minority of forum enthusiasts who similarly fail to describe objectively how they have come to the conclusion that one cable is "better" than the other. So al7478 is probaby right - it's a waste of time even entertaining the discussion - other than as a counterbalance to the hype drummed up by cable manufacturers and said publications.

By the way, have you ever heard of anyone buying posh DVI cables between their computer and their LCD monitor to improve the "richness of the colours" or "edge clarity" or to achieve "more natural skin tones"? Even professional photographers or visual artists? Well no... but how can that be, given that DVI and HDMI are basically the same, bar different connectors each end? The answer, if course, is that the DVI cable has no bearing on the result as long as it meets the specifications...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
To be fair, however, I can see merit in better "quality" terminations, shielding/sheathing, general robustness etc. that might] justify using slightly more expensive cables - I, for example, use higher quality monitor cables than I need do on my PCs just for general robustness. And I can see some argument that a better "quality" cable might suffer less from data rejection errors as a result.

I can't see a digital cable imparting any affectations to the signal in the same way as an analogue speaker cable can, however.

A bit off-topic, but I am still peeved every time I go into a high street electrical retailer about how they try and foist expensive cables and even more expensive extended warranties onto me. Nowadays they'll try and sell you an extended warranty on a kettle for heaven's sake!! If my new LCD TV or whatever works out of the box and through the initial manufacturers' guarantee period, chances are it will continue to work for many many many years to come.

Engineering types might like to remember the "bathtub curve" associated with reliability theory in this respect - lots of failures during "burn in" as manufacturing defects become apparent, very few during useful life, then a ramped increase at the end of life as things wear out and die of old age.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
at the end of the day , its all about money , if hdmi cable reviewers said that they found little difference between cables , they would indirectly lose business ,through less advertising , etc..

many hdmi cable reviews ive read describe changes that you might not see even if you upgraded your tv , never mind just a cable , at the end of the day , anyone that logs onto a website that reviews hdmi cables , can also do a google search on them , and what will he/she find ??

its mostly those with a vested interest that seem to see these marked improvements in their a.v. quality while using expensive cables , without being able to measure , prove it , while others , with no financial interest , so nothing to gain or lose , nearly always find little or no difference ..

i know who i believe , who do you believe ??
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Wow,

Only started this post as bit of chit chat and there are so many replys, just thought I would share some information with everyone. Thank's for all the nice comments :)
 

Andrew Everard

New member
May 30, 2007
1,878
2
0
Visit site
maxflinn:at the end of the day , its all about money , if hdmi cable reviewers said that they found little difference between cables , they would indirectly lose business ,through less advertising , etc..

No, if our HDMI cable reviewers found little difference, they'd say so - any resultant diminution of advertising spend wouldn't be our problem, but that of our advertising sales department.
 

Gerrardasnails

Well-known member
Sep 6, 2007
295
1
18,890
Visit site
Darren Heal:Gerrardasnails:Darren Heal:

Gerrardasnails:An old scary cable doing as good a job as a £100 hdmi cable? This makes you sound very ignorant and your story totally unbelievable.

Joe Blow has a new "HD Ready" TV. His sources are a Sky box and a regular DVD player. Do his sources justify a £100 HDMI cable? No. Won't stop the electrical store salesman trying to sell him one though.

I rest my case.

What has that got to do with you assertion that a scart cable can match an hdmi cable £5 let alone £100).

I didn't say that. What I said was that I believe certain less than scrupulous electrical retailers are selling TVs etc. at or below cost to get punters in the door, then making their profit on over-priced cables. Cables that the specification of which simply isn't justified by the performance of the devices they're connecting.

Read your post again, your actual words were, "Nowadays I suspect the same is true of expensive HDMI cables and the like. They sell a new TV, DVD, Bluray, whatever, more or less at cost, then tell the unsuspecting punter he or she needs a 100-quid HDMI cable, when, in fact, a 9-99 special (or quite possibly their old SCART) will do equally as well for what they need.".
 

Alec

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2007
478
0
18,890
Visit site
Andrew Everard:

maxflinn:at the end of the day , its all about money , if hdmi cable reviewers said that they found little difference between cables , they would indirectly lose business ,through less advertising , etc..

No, if our HDMI cable reviewers found little difference, they'd say so - any resultant diminution of advertising spend wouldn't be our problem, but that of our advertising sales department.

This gets very boring. I dont think thats what Maxflinn meant, and i dont think you do either.

If i were a cable manufacturer and magazines (plural, andrew) said there was no difference between mine and anyone else's, i may not see the point advertising in those magazines.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
al7478:canada16:

I trust the gadget show test that they did, I know some dont like them, but jason has some sort of masters from MIT and or something else like that, apparantly he is a genius...

Respectfully, I'm not sure this is true, and if it is im not sure it means much.

His blog site and his wki entry make nothing at all of the qualifications you mention, just a career in presenting, comedy, and writing.

Read it in the interview he did with the metro, he has very high education, I think it said he worked for the MOD or something, yes its not on his blog, but it was in an interview.

I dont really care anyway, I would not pay 70-80.00 for a HDMI cable when you cant notice a difference, and Like I said, even if you could it woud be so so small.

If people could see a difference, then this thread would not be going, people would say, yes spending more is better and thats the end of it, its only because people are saying yes and no and not sure, it will never be proven, becuase it would be so small.

What I see on a 100.00 hdmi cable and what the guy next to me sees, will be two different things.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Andrew Everard:
maxflinn:at the end of the day , its all about money , if hdmi cable reviewers said that they found little difference between cables , they would indirectly lose business ,through less advertising , etc..

No, if our HDMI cable reviewers found little difference, they'd say so - any resultant diminution of advertising spend wouldn't be our problem, but that of our advertising sales department.

i was generalising ,not talking about whfi , and didnt mean the reviewers themselves would personally lose money , im just pointing out what ive found on the web , or at least what ive made of what ive found , there may well be differences , i personally dont know as i havent tested hdmi cables myself , but until there is proof , of these wondrous improvements , that can be measured , im sceptical ... just my view..
 

Andrew Everard

New member
May 30, 2007
1,878
2
0
Visit site
al7478:This gets very boring. I dont think Maxflinn meant what you think he meant, and im not sure you dont know it.

I'm don't think I have a clue what you're going on about, and I'm not sure you do either. But I'm happy for you that you know better than either of us what we are thinking...
 

Andrew Everard

New member
May 30, 2007
1,878
2
0
Visit site
Sorry, but I responded entirely sincerely to what appeared to be the usual 'advertising influences reviews' accusation, and now we're into back-pedalling, changing what we originally said and so on, there seems little point trying to have a conversation built on shifting sands.

Thread locked.
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts