Hard to fathom manufacturer policy

After speaking with one of my favoured dealers a week or so ago, who are PMC dealers, they said that they won't stock the new 22 standmount speaker, as it is priced so close to it's floorstanding sibling, the 23. Also, as a consequence of the new 20 series they've now stopped stocks of the 'i' series.

I can see the logic behind the brands pricing and dealers decision, but find it sad that a well recognised model from great manufacturer is given the heavo-ho by a local dealer.

Must say the 'i' series is as good as I've heard from that price range, so maybe it was inevitable, with the intro of the 20 series, that the 'i' would be downgraded and *possibly* phased out. This is just personal conjecture.

Can anyone add some flesh to the (PMC) bones?
 

bigblue235

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I don't really understand what you're asking, sorry. But it's late and cider has been involved, so that's probably to be expected. It seems more like a retailer's decision rather than a manufacturer's policy?

The i series has a much bigger range of models and prices, so unless they have plans to greatly expand the Twenty range I can't see it being a replacement for the i series. I have noticed quite a few dealers selling off i demo models so I was curious if something was in the offing but I was expecting it to be just a revamp for the i series, if anything.

I think I'm maybe getting a little paranoid about model changes though, as just about every speaker I'm considering is a bit long in the tooth. I hate buying something which gets superceded quickly!
 

Richard Allen

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plastic penguin said:
Can anyone add some flesh to the (PMC) bones?

The standmounts will actually be more expensive. Add the cost of a good pair of stands??. Also, some people like floorstanders in the first place. Also, a 'good' dealer will stock at least 1 pair of both.
 

Frank Harvey

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That's mad.

The Twenty.22 will shift more air because of its larger bass driver, so will suit larger rooms and those wanting higher volumes. While their treble is basically the same, the midrange and bass are different. With how good the Twenty series is, I can't understand a dealer not keeping the whole range.

Some manufacturers will have certain requirements for demo stock holding, but sometimes it's down to the dealer what to keep, as a popular speaker in say Hull, may not be a popular speaker in Newport. A store should keep what sells for them, but to not keep the Twenty.22's at this early stage is a bit premature.
 

TheHomeCinemaCentre

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I agree with David - the 22 is very different to the 23 and I am surprised that any active PMC dealer doesnt have it for demonstration. If anything the 22 has re-introduced sales for large bookshelf speakers.

As for the i series I suspect that will continue on for quite a while due to the export market. The i series also extends further than the Twenty with the Ob1 and PB1 in particular still very popular models that the 24's do not compete against. The entry level DB1 and GB1 are close enough to the 21 and 23 that I can understand dealers not stocking them. We had both for a while but everybody purchased the newer models so it didnt make sense to carry on ranging them.
 
I agree totally. I could see the sense (in a way) in a PMC dealer culling the stocks of TB2 and keep the GB1s: The TB2s, like the DB1, have rear firing port (arguably a bit harder to place), whereas the GB1s are has a front ported.

Also, from a personal point, my room size neither big or small. Just about large enough to justify RS6s or similar floorstander...

But not stocking the lower end 'i' series is ciminal...
 
TheHomeCinemaCentre said:
plastic penguin said:
But not stocking the lower end 'i' series is ciminal...

Well I await my summons. DB1 vs Twenty:21 is an easy contest IMO. Demonstration after demonstration backs it up.

No summons. If reviews are anything to go by the 21s should outperform the DB1is. My issue is the DB1s still have huge appeal with smaller rooms - and look much better IMO - and if they're not a replacement, dealers should still stock them.
 

floyd droid

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plastic penguin said:
If reviews are anything to go by

Well they are not PP and you should know that. A review , lets keep things hifi, is all dependent on how the reviewist ? lol, likes his music to come across for starters , plus its his/her listening room/set up blah blah blah. thats why a good reviewerist like, (struggleing here , plus having a larf , lol) John Bamford for instance , will give said item his opinion and ratings but always insist you listen yourself. Basically he is saying 'reviews are a waste of bloody time and effort'. I mean how the hell can you tell from a review for christs sake . Reads brilliant ,stick said speakers with my system, absolute mare !!.

Sells mags tho i spose. :)
 
floyd droid said:
plastic penguin said:
If reviews are anything to go by

Well they are not PP and you should know that. A review , lets keep things hifi, is all dependent on how the reviewist ? lol, likes his music to come across for starters , plus its his/her listening room/set up blah blah blah. thats why a good reviewerist like, (struggleing here , plus having a larf , lol) John Bamford for instance , will give said item his opinion and ratings but always insist you listen yourself. Basically he is saying 'reviews are a waste of bloody time and effort'. I mean how the hell can you tell from a review for christs sake . Reads brilliant ,stick said speakers with my system, absolute mare !!.

Sells mags tho i spose. :)

Let's also keep the post in context and not just one snippet. There's been a few reviews on various speakers from the 20 series, so I'm not just aiming it at WHFI. In addition, I use reviews as a starting point. Nowt more.
 

floyd droid

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David touched on the 'dealer stock' thing earlier PP. Its a tough call going by what folks in the trade have told me. For instance one dealer ,who i know as a friend, used to stock Focal , but if at the time, he had all the current range in his shop for folk to dem, he would have been eating toe nail clippings for sunday lunch. I understand where you are coming from, but as David said, it all depends on how the manufacturer goes about things in the dem stock dept and /or the dealers wallet. Plus of course feedback from other dealers on whats shifting like hotcakes from that particular manufacturer.
 

CnoEvil

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floyd droid said:
David touched on the 'dealer stock' thing earlier PP. Its a tough call going by what folks in the trade have told me. For instance one dealer ,who i know as a friend, used to stock Focal , but if at the time, he had all the current range in his shop for folk to dem, he would have been eating toe nail clippings for sunday lunch. I understand where you are coming from, but as David said, it all depends on how the manufacturer goes about things in the dem stock dept and /or the dealers wallet. Plus of course feedback from other dealers on whats shifting like hotcakes from that particular manufacturer.

+1

People often don't realize that a distributor or manufacturer can make life easy or difficult for a dealer.....Some will bend over backwards to loan/subsidize models, while others insist you stock and pay for the whole range, which isn't easy if you are a small dealer with an expensive brand. More often than not, if it doesn't sell, you are stuck with it and heavy discounts are needed to move it on.
 

Frank Harvey

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To be fair, manufacturers can be quite accommodating when you have stock that isn't shifting. The good ones, anyway :)

But, if you're careful about what you stock from the off, those instances should be fairly rare.
 

bigblue235

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plastic penguin said:
bigblue235 said:
Aren't the Twenty.21 about £300 more than the DB1i? I could stretch to the DB1i, but not the 21s.

Exactly my point.

Yeah, I don't really understand that. Even if the 21s are far superior, well, they should be, they're 30% more expensive. I used to be a dealer (non Hifi) with difficult stock decisions, so I do sympathise, but I wouldn't really consider a product at 30% more to be an alternative.

With what I sold, £1000 was a pain barrier for the customers. With what I'm looking to buy, it's the same for me :) I much prefer the looks of the Twenty series but I just wouldn't pay £1300 for a pair of speakers, so I hope they continue to sell the i series.
 

Richard Allen

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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
To be fair, manufacturers can be quite accommodating when you have stock that isn't shifting. The good ones, anyway :)

But, if you're careful about what you stock from the off, those instances should be fairly rare.

David's right. I for myself hand hand picked 10 dealers up and down the country for my Accolade speakers. All demo stock is put in at my cost. Dealer pays nothing as long as he puts weight behind the brand.

This idea has 2 plus points. 1). Dealer gets a good run in this tight economic environment but 2), if the dealer has taken, for arguements sake, my model 4 and it sticks, it can be removed and substituted for 1,2 or 3. That model 4 can be moved to another dealer.

Shop space is a premium and dealers just can't, and won't tolerate non movers.

Hell!!. If I can afford it, larger manufacturers can walk it, if they want to. From a dealers point of view, it's a no brainer.
 

Frank Harvey

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I agree with that Richard, and if more manufacturers thought that way, they'd find themselves better represented in many stores. I really don't get why some manufacturers spend their time trying to get dealers to buy more demo stock in times like these. If they desperately want certain models on demo, give them to them! If it doesn't sell, pass them on to another dealer. If it does sell, the dealer will then feel the product worth buying and it earns it's space in the store.
 

Richard Allen

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Like I said David, it's a no brainer.

In this climate, you have to move with the times. Dealers won't tolerate sticky stock due to display cost so my model ( business ) is the best way forward. Larger manufacturers like long in the tooth retailers, won't try anything that deviates from the established norm and there are some high profile dealers in there.

It's simple. Wanna stay in business?? Maximise your profits by minimising your costs and cut out the chance of dead stock. Selling at a loss doesn't compute with me, sorry.

Maybe I ought to come and see you lol.
 
CnoEvil said:
floyd droid said:
David touched on the 'dealer stock' thing earlier PP. Its a tough call going by what folks in the trade have told me. For instance one dealer ,who i know as a friend, used to stock Focal , but if at the time, he had all the current range in his shop for folk to dem, he would have been eating toe nail clippings for sunday lunch. I understand where you are coming from, but as David said, it all depends on how the manufacturer goes about things in the dem stock dept and /or the dealers wallet. Plus of course feedback from other dealers on whats shifting like hotcakes from that particular manufacturer.

+1

People often don't realize that a distributor or manufacturer can make life easy or difficult for a dealer.....Some will bend over backwards to loan/subsidize models, while others insist you stock and pay for the whole range, which isn't easy if you are a small dealer with an expensive brand. More often than not, if it doesn't sell, you are stuck with it and heavy discounts are needed to move it on.

I agree that some manufacturers are prepared to go the extra yard to keep the dealer sweet, while others tend to be more testing.

When this reputable dealer mentioned this I almost choked on the speaker cable. I know there is a £300 difference between the DB1is and the 21s, but if it wasn't for the several price hikes on the DBs it would make them a different proposition, certainly if they stayed the right side of a £1,000. For me to go the DB1i route, once I've added the stands, that would bring it very close to the 21s.

It is a juggling act for maker and dealer but near-overlapping of different models makes it difficult for all parties.

Arcam had this same issue with the Alpha and DIVA range, and as a consequence some dealers, including this one I've mentioned, refused to sell all (or even most of the aforementioned ranges).

It is market saturation with models that have similar prices and performance levels.
 

Richard Allen

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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
Everyone seems to want to come and see us at the moment! We're all ears for good offers... :)

I'll take that as a 'yes' then lol.

Seriously, manufacturers have got to think long and hard about how to achieve sales. One way is the way I went with EB Acoustics. The other is to actively work with dealers by putting yer money where yer mouth is. It costs the dealer nothing and, because of that, you get shop space. From my point of view, its cost me materials for a pair of speakers. In my opinion, that's a worthwhile punt. By the way. with Accolade, you never buy the demo stock. If it gets revamped, old models are pulled out and new ones put in place. So easy, it's untrue.

What we're talking about is speculation. I'm prepared to go there, why won't others??.

What's that saying?? Speculation breeds accumulation.
 

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