Going crazy with this SPL.....

[Thompsonuxb]

Zap zap zap.....

Having a whale of a time with this SPL app.

Vacum cleaner.....zap!

I'm surprised ambient levels are 25db or there about - and how many domestic appliances are louder than my amp on average. ....wait....

Flushing toilet..... Zap!

This things great!

 

[Vladimir]

I love Sundays.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It is surprising how you measure something which you think sounds quite loud, only to find it's pretty quiet really...

I know a lot of people bang on about room treatment, room EQ, standing waves, boom this boom that, but I think ambient noise level can play an equally large part in how your system sounds. High ambient noise levels (which you might not even be aware of) means you lose low bass, subtle details, spatial information etc etc, reducing the music to a "bare bones" version that is comprised of anything that is making a decent amount of noise. Having said that, I have a belief that many people just listen to this bare bones aspect of music anyway, ignoring everything else that is going on, which is why they can't hear any difference between any two given products.

 

[drummerman]

I love Sundays.

 

[Vladimir]

Thompsonuxb aka Zaphod Beeblebrox.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

It's actually really interesting.

The 'sound graphic' that measures average frequency actually shows music/movies/ambient noise like a 'compressed' signal.

Very little variation between loud and quite - hand claps and such hiding quite passages nothing looks 'dynamic'.

Maybe this is where the DR data base fails.

Unlike the human ear which differentiates between various frequenclies these things see a whole. In the same way we hear white or pink noise.

Maybe I should develope a 3d one that's capable of overlaying one frequency over another.

The human ear must hear in 3d like how we see, hence our perception of space, distance and depth of our surroundings from sound.

Great toy.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

It is surprising how you measure something which you think sounds quite loud, only to find it's pretty quiet really...

I know a lot of people bang on about room treatment, room EQ, standing waves, boom this boom that, but I think ambient noise level can play an equally large part in how your system sounds. High ambient noise levels (which you might not even be aware of) means you lose low bass, subtle details, spatial information etc etc, reducing the music to a "bare bones" version that is comprised of anything that is making a decent amount of noise. Having said that, I have a belief that many people just listen to this bare bones aspect of music anyway, ignoring everything else that is going on, which is why they can't hear any difference between any two given products. 

Controversial David....

But it would explain why it all sounds the same to some......

Do you know how much noise you make running up the stairs?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Controversial David....

But it would explain why it all sounds the same to some......

Maybe it is, I don't know. But you have to try and work out why some people can't hear blatant differences sometimes. I've mentioned this before, but I think that comparing hi-fi is similar to comparing image quality/resolution. There are those people who will only focus on what is happening in the foreground, which even low res or highly compressed video can reproduce very well, but they ignore the subtleties that are everywhere else, and it's in these smaller details where image quality can differ. DVD can still look great, but compare what's going on in the 'in focus' background and the difference to Bluray is massive. I think a lot of people just concentrate on what is immediately presented in front of them, effectively reducing a comparison to a tonal one, and ignore many other aspects that will tell them a whole lot more.

I feel you can only get the real feel for a system's full capabilities when listening in the dark, where you are able to forget the room and fully appreciate the size of the soundstage that the system can reproduce (width, height, and depth). Being aware of a room's boundaries can have quite an effect on the size of the soundstage you can hear. It also begs the question as to whether some people can hear exactly that whilst their eyes are open in a nightly light room. It doesn't seem something I can fully appreciate until I can forget about the room I'm in.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Do you know how much noise you make running up the stairs?

Dont tell me you've measured that as well?! *biggrin*

Are you asking generally, or are you asking how much noise I make running up the stairs? Obviously the type of stairs will affect the outcome...

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Controversial David....

But it would explain why it all sounds the same to some......

Maybe it is, I don't know. But you have to try and work out why some people can't hear blatant differences sometimes. I've mentioned this before, but I think that comparing hi-fi is similar to comparing image quality/resolution. There are those people who will only focus on what is happening in the foreground, which even low res or highly compressed video can reproduce very well, but they ignore the subtleties that are everywhere else, and it's in these smaller details where image quality can differ. DVD can still look great, but compare what's going on in the 'in focus' background and the difference to Bluray is massive. I think a lot of people just concentrate on what is immediately presented in front of them, effectively reducing a comparison to a tonal one, and ignore many other aspects that will tell them a whole lot more.?

I feel you can only get the real feel for a system's full capabilities when listening in the dark, where you are able to forget the room and fully appreciate the size of the soundstage that the system can reproduce (width, height, and depth). Being aware of a room's boundaries can have quite an effect on the size of the soundstage you can hear. It also begs the question as to whether some people can hear exactly that whilst their eyes are open in a nightly light room. It doesn't seem something I can fully appreciate until I can forget about the room I'm in.

Lol...... My son bounding up and down the stairs I had to measure.

Funny thing ref DVD and BluRay a DVD looks much better when played through a dedicated DVD player.

The extra bandwidth afforded a BluRay players laser or innards reveals grain and artifacts killing a DVD image.

I totally get what your saying when visual stimuli are removed.

 

[Jota180]

I know I make no noise at all running up the stairs in my house.

 

[steve_1979]

Zap zap zap.....

Having a whale of a time with this SPL app.

Vacum cleaner.....zap!

I'm surprised ambient levels are 25db or there about - and how many domestic appliances are louder than my amp on average. ....wait....

Flushing toilet..... Zap!

This things great!

I'll give it a try.

 

[Ajani]

I have a belief that many people just listen to this bare bones aspect of music anyway, ignoring everything else that is going on, which is why they can't hear any difference between any two given products.

you have to try and work out why some people can't hear blatant differences sometimes.

I think it's far more complicated than that. First off, I think many audiophiles misuse terms like blatant, obvious and night and day to describe differences that are relatively subtle. I'm an accountant by profession and many accounting issues seem blatantly obvious to me, but other persons act like it's rocket science. I recognise that I've spent years getting a solid understanding of issues in my profession, while they may have never given those issues a second thought. So night and day to me maybe the most subtle shade of grey to them. The same applies to any profession and even audio. You can't just expect everyone to automatically know what to look for.

Also, there is an element of audiophiles not doing the hobby any favours by sticking their fingers in the ears at any discussions of science. Instead of seeking ways to prove that what they hear is real, they often stick with the mantra of "trust your ears". Even if 70% of what you hear is real, that doesn't mean the last 30% isn't imagined or subject to placebo effect. So not being willing to even consider the possibility that not every difference you think you hear is real, kills the credibility of the hobby.

To really understand the differences in what we hear, I think we need to employ both science and training people in what to listen to for. We also need to appreciate that not everyone cares to listen to every subtle difference nor should they.

I feel you can only get the real feel for a system's full capabilities when listening in the dark, where you are able to forget the room and fully appreciate the size of the soundstage that the system can reproduce (width, height, and depth). Being aware of a room's boundaries can have quite an effect on the size of the soundstage you can hear. It also begs the question as to whether some people can hear exactly that whilst their eyes are open in a nightly light room. It doesn't seem something I can fully appreciate until I can forget about the room I'm in.

The funny thing to me is that what you are talking about sounds like an ideal way to conduct a DBT. Take away all the visual distractions and just take your time to really appreciate the music.

 

[ID.]

It is surprising how you measure something which you think sounds quite loud, only to find it's pretty quiet really...

I know a lot of people bang on about room treatment, room EQ, standing waves, boom this boom that, but I think ambient noise level can play an equally large part in how your system sounds. High ambient noise levels (which you might not even be aware of) means you lose low bass, subtle details, spatial information etc etc, reducing the music to a "bare bones" version that is comprised of anything that is making a decent amount of noise. Having said that, I have a belief that many people just listen to this bare bones aspect of music anyway, ignoring everything else that is going on, which is why they can't hear any difference between any two given products.

this matches with my experience. My current apartment in a very developed area definitely has more ambient noise than my old home. I realize it more at night, but even then there are so many things that I'm not normally conscious of until I hear my system again without them.

 

[lpv]

headphones sort the ambient noise once and forever.

 

[Frank Harvey]

headphones sort the ambient noise once and forever.

But sound more like an anechoic chamber, which some people don't like. I tried a few pairs of headphones recently, and found that I preferred to listen to my speakers, even when listening at very low levels, as the headphones weren't really giving me anything that I wasn't getting from the speakers.

 

[lpv]

headphones sort the ambient noise once and forever.

But sound more like an anechoic chamber, which some people don't like. I tried a few pairs of headphones recently, and found that I preferred to listen to my speakers, even when listening at very low levels, as the headphones weren't really giving me anything that I wasn't getting from the speakers.

quite opposite here.. maybe it'a a choice of headphones and partnered amps but a fact stays a fact ( headphones sort ambient noise) regardless of preferences. don't want to go into headphones vs speakers debate but recently I choose phones 90% of the time and it couldn't get any better.

 

[Ajani]

headphones sort the ambient noise once and forever.

But sound more like an anechoic chamber, which some people don't like. I tried a few pairs of headphones recently, and found that I preferred to listen to my speakers, even when listening at very low levels, as the headphones weren't really giving me anything that I wasn't getting from the speakers.

quite opposite here.. maybe it'a a choice of headphones and partnered amps but a fact stays a fact ( headphones sort ambient noise) regardless of preferences. don't want to go into headphones vs speakers debate but recently I choose phones 90% of the time and it couldn't get any better.

Headphones vs speakers really seems to be a matter of personal preference. That said, the only way I could imagine headphones sounding like an anechoic chamber *might* be closed headphones. I only use open headphones.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I just meant in relation to the divide in music between the ears. If an instrument appears in one speaker, it won't normally come from just that speaker as the acoustic space has it's effect, whereas with headphones, it appears in one capsule - if there's no intended bleed through to the other channel, it is very definite, if you know what I mean - you don't get that so much with speakers as they're producing a soundstage, rather than a divide.

 

[Ajani]

I just meant in relation to the divide in music between the ears. If an instrument appears in one speaker, it won't normally come from just that speaker as the acoustic space has it's effect, whereas with headphones, it appears in one capsule - if there's no intended bleed through to the other channel, it is very definite, if you know what I mean - you don't get that so much with speakers as they're producing a soundstage, rather than a divide.

Fair enough. Headphones really aren't ideal for persons who focus on soundstage. I find headphones to be a more initimate listening experience; great for really digging deep into the details of the performance. Though I see no reason not to use both headphones and speakers for listening, depending on the circumstances and which experience you're currently after.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've wanted some headphones for a long time, as I tend to listen to music until quite late, but I've never had a headphones socket on the Audiolab processor. Now I do have one, I tried some, and it's just not for me. Even at low level, I find my system gives me everything I need.

 

[Jota180]

I've wanted some headphones for a long time, as I tend to listen to music until quite late, but I've never had a headphones socket on the Audiolab processor. Now I do have one, I tried some, and it's just not for me. Even at low level, I find my system gives me everything I need.

That may be the headphone socket itself rather than the headphones. You'd have to eliminate all the other alternatives before saying for definite it was the headphones. An example for me recently was hearing the difference between the headphone socket on the Hegel H160 and one's on a Marantz CD player and one on a UQ2. Literally night and day.