Going back to CD a good idea? hmm

[CnoEvil]

Indeed. Bit-perfect rips have the potential to sound better than their source CDs, not the other way round, for all the feasible reasons which have been said on this forum many times before.

Sorry Major.

Reading your post seemed to (surprisingly) indicate the opposite......which was the cause of my comments.

 

[MajorFubar]

lol! No, you misread me. there was one possibly two posts earlier in this thread (cba finding them) saying that CDs will always sound better than rips because you can't get a rip to ever sound as good. It wasn't picked-up at the time, but it needs to be, because it's utter ****

 

[soulsonic34]

all good arguements; for and against.

But In my opinion, its all about the enjoyment and experience.

Yes, the availability to rip CD's or download/stream 24-bit Mastercopies is compelling but let's face it, it's not a simple process of getting a CD, plumping into your CD player and pressing play whilst drink a good glass of rioja.

As my computer is in a different room from my hi-fi, listening on the computer tends to be more of a background noise whilst surfing the 'net.

Whereas when I listen to music in the lounge using my CD player, I relax with a smile on my face. Same applies to listening to my iPOD Classic inserted into a dock attachment on my Yamaha amp.

I too like listening to CD's especially whilst reading the sleeves notes; yes you can do the same by looking up the artists biography on computer but it's not the same.

Both yield the same result ... bliss.

That's what music is all about ... enjoyment ...

 

[MajorFubar]

Agreed. Currently, it's all about what you're most comfortable with, and enjoy the most.

I say 'currently'. You don't need to be Nostradamus to see that the writing's on the wall for CD, and it's only a matter of time before the major labels call time on it.

I'm already the only person I know in my circle of friends and family who still buys music on physical media, new or used.

And since I joined Spotify, even I've been buying less. Albums which I know in advance I'd probably play once or twice, shelve and re-listen to once every Preston Guild, get streamed from Spotify instead.

 

[Al ears]

lol! No, you misread me. there was one possibly two posts earlier in this thread (cba finding them) saying that CDs will always sound better than rips because you can't get a rip to ever sound as good. It wasn't picked-up at the time, but it needs to be, because it's utter ****

I think the ripping of a CD apparently sounding better than the CD itself is totally irrelevent. It is all going to depend on what you play the CD on compared to what you are streaming it to / from. Too many variables and too many 'it's got to sound better' means they probably have a *rap CD player in the first place.

Not too sure on what quality dowloads you get from Spotify as I've not tried it yet.

CD's will not die out completely, just like SACD, until all music that is realeased is available as a high-resolution download.

Not unless we are all going to accept low-res MP3 as the future.|(

 

[Covenanter]

lol! No, you misread me. there was one possibly two posts earlier in this thread (cba finding them) saying that CDs will always sound better than rips because you can't get a rip to ever sound as good. It wasn't picked-up at the time, but it needs to be, because it's utter ****

I think the ripping of a CD apparently sounding better than the CD itself is totally irrelevent. It is all going to depend on what you play the CD on compared to what you are streaming it to / from. Too many variables and too many 'it's got to sound better' means they probably have a *rap CD player in the first place.

Not too sure on what quality dowloads you get from Spotify as I've not tried it yet.

CD's will not die out completely, just like SACD, until all music that is realeased is available as a high-resolution download.

Not unless we are all going to accept low-res MP3 as the future.|(

Not totally irrelevant because the idea that ripping a CD could improve sound quality is simply fantasy. "Ripping" although a sexy word is just copying and you can't improve quality by copying. This is just wish-fulfillement.

Chris

 

[josh05]

If you use good software like DB Poweramp or EAC and your rips are veryfied accurate by the accurate rip database, I highly doubt there would be any audible difference between the CD and the rip if you were to play them both in the same PC/Mac media player.

 

[andyjm]

lol! No, you misread me. there was one possibly two posts earlier in this thread (cba finding them) saying that CDs will always sound better than rips because you can't get a rip to ever sound as good. It wasn't picked-up at the time, but it needs to be, because it's utter ****

I think the ripping of a CD apparently sounding better than the CD itself is totally irrelevent. It is all going to depend on what you play the CD on compared to what you are streaming it to / from. Too many variables and too many 'it's got to sound better' means they probably have a *rap CD player in the first place.

Not too sure on what quality dowloads you get from Spotify as I've not tried it yet.

CD's will not die out completely, just like SACD, until all music that is realeased is available as a high-resolution download.

Not unless we are all going to accept low-res MP3 as the future.|(

Not totally irrelevant because the idea that ripping a CD could improve sound quality is simply fantasy. "Ripping" although a sexy word is just copying and you can't improve quality by copying. This is just wish-fulfillement.

Chris

Arguably, a muti pass rip of a CD stands a better chance of recovering the original data from a marginal or damaged CD than a single pass CD player. So while the rip is no better than the data that was originally used to make the CD, it might be better than the data that a CD player was able to extract.

Not a very common event I would guess, but certainly not fantasy.

 

[BigH]

Would playing on a SSD be better than than a cdp?

 

[andyjm]

CD's will not die out completely, just like SACD, until all music that is realeased is available as a high-resolution download.

I may be misreading this, but I don't think that the death of the CD is predicated on Hi Res downloads (if you mean greater than redbook standard as 'Hi Res').

CDs will die out when music distribution companies stop making money from selling them.

 

[andyjm]

Would playing on a SSD be better than than a cdp?

All other things being equal, data is data is data. Redbook CDs have limited error correction and (in principle) would offer a lower certainty of correct data than an SSD which has high levels of data certainty. So, with a damaged or marginal CD, it would be possible to have an SSD sound better than a CD.

All things are of course not equal. The CDP has a at least two motors whirring away, laser drive circuitry and who knows what else grinding away in there. While it is certainly possible to shield all of this, you are starting on the back foot relative to a device reading data from an SSD.

It all comes down to the design. I am sure it is possible to make a poor sounding SSD player and an excellent sounding CD player.

 

[Macspur]

Would playing on a SSD be better than than a cdp?

All other things being equal, data is data is data. Redbook CDs have limited error correction and (in principle) would offer a lower certainty of correct data than an SSD which has high levels of data certainty. So, with a damaged or marginal CD, it would be possible to have an SSD sound better than a CD.

All things are of course not equal. The CDP has a at least two motors whirring away, laser drive circuitry and who knows what else grinding away in there. While it is certainly possible to shield all of this, you are starting on the back foot relative to a device reading data from an SSD.

It all comes down to the design. I am sure it is possible to make a poor sounding SSD player and an excellent sounding CD player.

Yep, EMC1UP.

Mac

 

[cheeseboy]

Yep, EMC1UP.

Mac

I can bs on their marketing blurb - "Principally, there is no difference between a record player and a CD player. Both playback systems consist of: a motor, a pick-up and a tone arm. Phenomena such as tone arm resonance found in analog turntables - are just as problematic in typical CD players."

Erm yes, cd players have a tone arm don't they, not a laser :wall:

 

[Macspur]

Yep, EMC1UP.

Mac

I can bs on their marketing blurb - "Principally, there is no difference between a record player and a CD player. Both playback systems consist of: a motor, a pick-up and a tone arm. Phenomena such as tone arm resonance found in analog turntables - are just as problematic in typical CD players."

Erm yes, cd players have a tone arm don't they, not a laser :wall:

Take your point, but you have to hear one to know how good it is.

Mac

 

[steve_1979]

CDs themselves will always inherrently sound better than rips of the same thereof, because it's not possible to get an accurate rip which sounds as good as the CD.

Sorry major but this as absolute rubbish.

It's easy to make a bit perfect rip of a CD. It's also easy to set your computer up so that it checks your rip against the CD and let you know if it's 100% perfect or if there's any errors (which can occasionally happen if the CD is badly scratched). If you wanted to be really obsessive it's even possible to double check your rip against an online database to make sure that your rip is absolutely 100% identical to everybody else's bit perfect rips of the same tracks.

A bit perfect rip. The clue's in the name.

 

[cheeseboy]

Yep, EMC1UP.

Mac

I can bs on their marketing blurb - "Principally, there is no difference between a record player and a CD player. Both playback systems consist of: a motor, a pick-up and a tone arm. Phenomena such as tone arm resonance found in analog turntables - are just as problematic in typical CD players."

Erm yes, cd players have a tone arm don't they, not a laser :wall:

Take your point, but you have to hear one to know how good it is.

Mac

Am not disputing that, and it looks fab. I would however cast doubt on if all the work they have done to stabilse the laser actually makes much difference tbh.

I just wish companies (not just hifi companies) would stop it with the bs, plain out and out lying and other utter bollocks we have to put up with from them. (personal rant )

 

[BigH]

CDs themselves will always inherrently sound better than rips of the same thereof, because it's not possible to get an accurate rip which sounds as good as the CD.

Sorry major but this as absolute rubbish.

It's easy to make a bit perfect rip of a CD. It's also easy to set your computer up so that it checks your rip against the CD and let you know if it's 100% perfect or if there's any errors (which can occasionally happen if the CD is badly scratched). If you wanted to be really obsessive it's even possible to double check your rip against an online database to make sure that your rip is absolutely 100% identical to everybody else's bit perfect rips of the same tracks.

A bit perfect rip. The clue's in the name.

I have to agree the rips I have done have sounded as good as the cds, so for me it does sound as good, in fact with ssd it can be argued that it will sound better than a cd spinning in a old cdp.

 

[Macspur]

Yep, EMC1UP.

Mac

I can bs on their marketing blurb - "Principally, there is no difference between a record player and a CD player. Both playback systems consist of: a motor, a pick-up and a tone arm. Phenomena such as tone arm resonance found in analog turntables - are just as problematic in typical CD players."

Erm yes, cd players have a tone arm don't they, not a laser :wall:

Take your point, but you have to hear one to know how good it is.

Mac

Am not disputing that, and it looks fab. I would however cast doubt on if all the work they have done to stabilse the laser actually makes much difference tbh.

I just wish companies (not just hifi companies) would stop it with the bs, plain out and out lying and other utter bollocks we have to put up with from them. (personal rant )

I agree with your sentiments, but in this instance, owning one and having compared it against heavyweights such as Wadia, Audio Research, Krell and Sugden, I think all their work has actually paid off.

Mac

 

[MajorFubar]

CDs themselves will always inherrently sound better than rips of the same thereof, because it's not possible to get an accurate rip which sounds as good as the CD.

Sorry major but this as absolute rubbish.

I know its rubbish lol, and I said so in the post. In fact the whole point of my post was to debunk the ridiculous idea, which someone posted several pages earlier. My post seems to have confused a few people, just must have been the way I wrote it, but it's too late to edit it now.

 

[cheeseboy]

I agree with your sentiments, but in this instance, owning one and having compared it against heavyweights such as Wadia, Audio Research, Krell and Sugden, I think all their work has actually paid off.

Mac

to be honest, I'd probably just put a disc in and stare at it spinning, totally forgetting to listen to the actual bloody music if I had one

 

[Macspur]

I agree with your sentiments, but in this instance, owning one and having compared it against heavyweights such as Wadia, Audio Research, Krell and Sugden, I think all their work has actually paid off.

Mac

to be honest, I'd probably just put a disc in and stare at it spinning, totally forgetting to listen to the actual bloody music if I had one

 

[steve_1979]

CDs themselves will always inherrently sound better than rips of the same thereof, because it's not possible to get an accurate rip which sounds as good as the CD.

Sorry major but this as absolute rubbish.

I know its rubbish lol, and I said so in the post. In fact the whole point of my post was to debunk the ridiculous idea, which someone posted several pages earlier. My post seems to have confused a few people, just must have been the way I wrote it, but it's too late to edit it now.

Oops. Yes so you did. That'll teach me to pay more attention and read posts properly before I reply.

 

[MajorFubar]

lol no worries mate, must be partly my fault as you are the second person who misread it.

But just to clarify, this is the post which raised my eyebrows (page 2):

I dont know about anybody else but I also question ripping CD's as a concept. I understand a 24bit master from HDTracks but IMO a rip of a redbook CD cannot be as good as the original article IMO. Alot of fuss for supposed convinience.

Fair enough it's his opinion, but it's an incorrect one, and I just felt that even several pages later it needed debunking in case someone ends up believing it.

 

[Electro]

Yep, EMC1UP.

Mac

I can bs on their marketing blurb - "Principally, there is no difference between a record player and a CD player. Both playback systems consist of: a motor, a pick-up and a tone arm. Phenomena such as tone arm resonance found in analog turntables - are just as problematic in typical CD players."

Erm yes, cd players have a tone arm don't they, not a laser :wall:

Take your point, but you have to hear one to know how good it is.

Mac

Definitely :exmark: Even after more than 10 years of ownership I have heard nothing else that comes close to the EMC1up including some of the Hi res formats

 

[the record spot]

lol no worries mate, must be partly my fault as you are the second person who misread it.

But just to clarify, this is the post which raised my eyebrows (page 2):

I dont know about anybody else but I also question ripping CD's as a concept. I understand a 24bit master from HDTracks but IMO a rip of a redbook CD cannot be as good as the original article IMO. Alot of fuss for supposed convinience.

Fair enough it's his opinion, but it's an incorrect one, and I just felt that even several pages later it needed debunking in case someone ends up believing it.

:clap: