hi guys sorry me again as you may know by know im lookin into getting new full hd tv i have recently found out that full hd causes gaming lag is this true and if it is, is there a way to minimize the effect thanks for any answers i recieve
full hd gaming lag
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if gaming lag , or the lack of it , is a major factor in choosing a tv then get a plasma , zero lag , hi def or not
Have a look at the tv in my kit list. We bought the tv about 6 months ago as we to wanted to get the best of our PS3. We have not noticed any lag at all from the tv, its fantastic. I would recommend it right away.
Miggs.
Miggs.
professorhat
Well-known member
My guess would be you're talking about the extra processing required to upscale a non Full HD game to the Full HD resolution resulting in lag, rather than the different response times inherent between the technologies in the TV?
If that's the case, I guess it depends what type of games you play and how serious you are. I've not noticed any lag when playing online on my Full HD TV, but then I'm a casual gamer, and probably wouldn't notice even if it was happening! Certainly the benefits of Full HD for Blu-Ray would far outweigh any slight lag in online play for me.
If that's the case, I guess it depends what type of games you play and how serious you are. I've not noticed any lag when playing online on my Full HD TV, but then I'm a casual gamer, and probably wouldn't notice even if it was happening! Certainly the benefits of Full HD for Blu-Ray would far outweigh any slight lag in online play for me.
are most modern games not either 720p or 1080p though prof ? im assuming that those that are , are set to output at 576i on whatever console , for non hd tvs , and therefore being downscaled ? if so , could they perhaps play faster on a hdtv that had minimal lag , seeing as there would be less , or no scaling involved ?
professorhat
Well-known member
I believe most games hang around the 720p range, meaning that they'd need to be upscaled on a Full HD TV. I'd also think there's more processing required to upscale an image compared to downscaling it - can't back that up with a source but it makes sense that it's easier to throw information away than it is to make it up.
On the X-box 360 if the console is set to output 1080 then the scaling is done in hardware on the console. I presume the PS3 does the same thing.
professorhat
Well-known member
Indeed, and it's exactly that scaling (whether it be done on the console or on the TV) which introduces the lag compared with someone who is playing on a display where no scaling is required.
Believe me, we're talking split seconds here and, for most people, this really isn't an issue. It's only for hardcore shooters etc. where those split seconds can be the difference between killing someone or being killed that you might actually consider this an issue. Personally, I'm nowhere near good enough at shooters (nor do I really even take them that seriously) so this doesn't even begin to concern me.
Believe me, we're talking split seconds here and, for most people, this really isn't an issue. It's only for hardcore shooters etc. where those split seconds can be the difference between killing someone or being killed that you might actually consider this an issue. Personally, I'm nowhere near good enough at shooters (nor do I really even take them that seriously) so this doesn't even begin to concern me.
Everyone is going to get some form of lag then unless they have a 720 tv and play a 720 game. Even then there will be lag in the likes of Cod an Halo 3 as they are not native 720 and are upscaled in software.
I don't think you have come around the single most important factor for input lag: Interpolation (100 Hz, 200 Hz on LCD screen, intelligent frame creation or similar on plasma screens).
Interpolation requires some serious calcuations introducing the lag, and turning of these features usually decrease input lag significantly.
I am not so sure scaling is actually so important in this regard, and as already mentioned it will not be possible to buy a TV fitting all games as some are in SD, others in 720p or 1080i (don't think there are any in 1080p). There will always be examples where some kind of scaling/deinterlacing will be required.
But in the end no matter what you do there is no getting around these slow LCD panels
Plasma simply is superior for gaming.
Interpolation requires some serious calcuations introducing the lag, and turning of these features usually decrease input lag significantly.
I am not so sure scaling is actually so important in this regard, and as already mentioned it will not be possible to buy a TV fitting all games as some are in SD, others in 720p or 1080i (don't think there are any in 1080p). There will always be examples where some kind of scaling/deinterlacing will be required.
But in the end no matter what you do there is no getting around these slow LCD panels
Plasma simply is superior for gaming.
Theres a well known HDTV review site that has a gaming section on each of its reviews with a figure for the amount of lag you will experience during your gaming sessions...would be so much easier for readers of WHF if the magazine or website had that feature in their reviews too.
You wil get some kind of lag on all tv's full hd tv's don't cause it, of course some can handle it better.A lot forum members won't notice anything, and as the Proffessor and a few others have said games' i play like COD, HALO, GEARS OF WAR, lag will occur not alot you can do about it.I would suggest you try doing some more research on google and then if gaming is going to be your priority look towards plasma.My old Samsung is fine the only time i get problems is with screen tear on my 360.Not sure about games being in 1080p, but what i was told is that most 360 games are 720p or 1080i a few 1080p and ps3 games are 720p.Hope this helps
Sure.
If you want a fat, heavy,hot,noisy set that burns electricity like a coal fired power station and has a glass screen which reflects light like a goldfish bowl, buy a plasma.
You'll most likely be too busy complaining about phosphor trailling and screen burn to have time to worry about one billionth's of a second lag anyway.
Alternatively, you could join the 21st century and get a new lcd,
Why not try the new Sony 46hx903? whf 5 stars. Blows the new panny into the weeds, by all accounts! ;-)
If you want a fat, heavy,hot,noisy set that burns electricity like a coal fired power station and has a glass screen which reflects light like a goldfish bowl, buy a plasma.
You'll most likely be too busy complaining about phosphor trailling and screen burn to have time to worry about one billionth's of a second lag anyway.
Alternatively, you could join the 21st century and get a new lcd,
Why not try the new Sony 46hx903? whf 5 stars. Blows the new panny into the weeds, by all accounts! ;-)
Believe me LAG is down to the servers, broadband speed, and time of day. I have £1700 47"philips and my son has a £200 32"tecnicks tesco tv. If these tvs can handle hd live sports they easily handle video games. I have both console PS3 and XBOX360 . The 360 suffers the most lag cos of the Yanks who i blame for most problems anyway. The 360 seems to LAG early morning and late evening just as the Yanks are going to bed and getting up. So your problem is Yanks not 1080p processing ability. Have i mentioned the yanks?
cliffster:
Sure.
If you want a fat, heavy,hot,noisy set that burns electricity like a coal fired power station and has a glass screen which reflects light like a goldfish bowl, buy a plasma.
You'll most likely be too busy complaining about phosphor trailling and screen burn to have time to worry about one billionth's of a second lag anyway.
Alternatively, you could join the 21st century and get a new lcd,
Why not try the new Sony 46hx903? whf 5 stars. Blows the new panny into the weeds, by all accounts! ;-)
New Sony LCD's are meant to be very laggy sets for online gaming. 60-100ms lag even with game mode engaged which to be honest is pretty slow especially for playing games like MW2. Another point i should mention..lag does not just effect shooters as some people may believe..it also effects games such as Bayonetta and Devil May Cry games where rapid button commands are essential to pulling off the vast amount of combos successfully, if the tv doesnt allow you to get the timing of these correct because of input lag then the tv can be considered useless for gaming.
All tv's do produce input lag when compared to the old CRT's but some cope excellently such as plasmas and my trusty old Sony 40w4500 which produces between 0-10ms input lag with gaming mode switched on.
Sure.
If you want a fat, heavy,hot,noisy set that burns electricity like a coal fired power station and has a glass screen which reflects light like a goldfish bowl, buy a plasma.
You'll most likely be too busy complaining about phosphor trailling and screen burn to have time to worry about one billionth's of a second lag anyway.
Alternatively, you could join the 21st century and get a new lcd,
Why not try the new Sony 46hx903? whf 5 stars. Blows the new panny into the weeds, by all accounts! ;-)
New Sony LCD's are meant to be very laggy sets for online gaming. 60-100ms lag even with game mode engaged which to be honest is pretty slow especially for playing games like MW2. Another point i should mention..lag does not just effect shooters as some people may believe..it also effects games such as Bayonetta and Devil May Cry games where rapid button commands are essential to pulling off the vast amount of combos successfully, if the tv doesnt allow you to get the timing of these correct because of input lag then the tv can be considered useless for gaming.
All tv's do produce input lag when compared to the old CRT's but some cope excellently such as plasmas and my trusty old Sony 40w4500 which produces between 0-10ms input lag with gaming mode switched on.
cliffster:
Sure.
If you want a fat, heavy,hot,noisy set that burns electricity like a coal fired power station and has a glass screen which reflects light like a goldfish bowl, buy a plasma.
You'll most likely be too busy complaining about phosphor trailling and screen burn to have time to worry about one billionth's of a second lag anyway.
Alternatively, you could join the 21st century and get a new lcd,
Why not try the new Sony 46hx903? whf 5 stars. Blows the new panny into the weeds, by all accounts! ;-)
This sure is the funniest post I have read for a long time!
I don't even know where to start, so I won't...
Sure.
If you want a fat, heavy,hot,noisy set that burns electricity like a coal fired power station and has a glass screen which reflects light like a goldfish bowl, buy a plasma.
You'll most likely be too busy complaining about phosphor trailling and screen burn to have time to worry about one billionth's of a second lag anyway.
Alternatively, you could join the 21st century and get a new lcd,
Why not try the new Sony 46hx903? whf 5 stars. Blows the new panny into the weeds, by all accounts! ;-)
This sure is the funniest post I have read for a long time!
I don't even know where to start, so I won't...
professorhat
Well-known member
Indeed, think the poster needs to update his knowledge of modern plasma technology. Still produces the best picture IMHO.
bigboss
Moderator
TKratz:cliffster:
Sure.
If you want a fat, heavy,hot,noisy set that burns electricity like a coal fired power station and has a glass screen which reflects light like a goldfish bowl, buy a plasma.
You'll most likely be too busy complaining about phosphor trailling and screen burn to have time to worry about one billionth's of a second lag anyway.
Alternatively, you could join the 21st century and get a new lcd,
Why not try the new Sony 46hx903? whf 5 stars. Blows the new panny into the weeds, by all accounts! ;-)
This sure is the funniest post I have read for a long time!
I don't even know where to start, so I won't...
This is indeed the funniest post I've read recently!
Completely detached from reality.........own little fantasy world!
Sure.
If you want a fat, heavy,hot,noisy set that burns electricity like a coal fired power station and has a glass screen which reflects light like a goldfish bowl, buy a plasma.
You'll most likely be too busy complaining about phosphor trailling and screen burn to have time to worry about one billionth's of a second lag anyway.
Alternatively, you could join the 21st century and get a new lcd,
Why not try the new Sony 46hx903? whf 5 stars. Blows the new panny into the weeds, by all accounts! ;-)
This sure is the funniest post I have read for a long time!
I don't even know where to start, so I won't...
This is indeed the funniest post I've read recently!
Completely detached from reality.........own little fantasy world!
Hi,
I use a wii 480i and a PS3 on both my Phillips and Projector. I have no trouble running Wipeout HD at 1080p through my PJ (which is 720p) or my Wii which needs upscaling through either my tv or PJ. Having the processing on or off does not seem to effect anything. I can only assume that the direct/ consistent signal of the consoles helps ensure a great picture.
Got to say this though. Don't over sharpen you're screen or it will blur! Use a calibration disc set using the console as the player and you shouldn't suffer from bleeding colours, high contrast of extreme sharpness. Did find that some HDMI leads can cause problems though. I use a basic 'Alba' one i purchased from Argos for £5. Seems to hold the picture 'rigid' compared to my more expensive ones i own. Shorter length too. Lastly both my pieces of kit are LCD.
Regards,
Cookie Monster
I use a wii 480i and a PS3 on both my Phillips and Projector. I have no trouble running Wipeout HD at 1080p through my PJ (which is 720p) or my Wii which needs upscaling through either my tv or PJ. Having the processing on or off does not seem to effect anything. I can only assume that the direct/ consistent signal of the consoles helps ensure a great picture.
Got to say this though. Don't over sharpen you're screen or it will blur! Use a calibration disc set using the console as the player and you shouldn't suffer from bleeding colours, high contrast of extreme sharpness. Did find that some HDMI leads can cause problems though. I use a basic 'Alba' one i purchased from Argos for £5. Seems to hold the picture 'rigid' compared to my more expensive ones i own. Shorter length too. Lastly both my pieces of kit are LCD.
Regards,
Cookie Monster
Glad that tickled you all!
Was supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek.!
However, the lcd v plasma debate is ever on-going between myself (Sony) and my Pioneer Panny loving fan boy friends.
EDITED BY MODS
Anyway, I digress.
I stated that, as opposed to lcd tech, plasma tv's are typically
1 fatter
2 heavier
3 noisier
4 hotter
5 use greater amounts of power
6 have more reflective glass screens
7 tend to suffer from phosphor trailing
8 tend to suffer from screen burn
Please indulge me and explain which of these points you dissagree with as I am looking to purchase a new tv shortly. My friends haven't been able to convert me to plasma yet. perhaps one of you may be able to!
This may become a lively debate if certain people get wind of it. Bring on the 'friendly banter' !
Was supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek.!
However, the lcd v plasma debate is ever on-going between myself (Sony) and my Pioneer Panny loving fan boy friends.
EDITED BY MODS
Anyway, I digress.
I stated that, as opposed to lcd tech, plasma tv's are typically
1 fatter
2 heavier
3 noisier
4 hotter
5 use greater amounts of power
6 have more reflective glass screens
7 tend to suffer from phosphor trailing
8 tend to suffer from screen burn
Please indulge me and explain which of these points you dissagree with as I am looking to purchase a new tv shortly. My friends haven't been able to convert me to plasma yet. perhaps one of you may be able to!
This may become a lively debate if certain people get wind of it. Bring on the 'friendly banter' !
bigboss
Moderator
cliffster: 1 fatter
Some of Sony LCDs are fatter than plasmas. Once hung on a wall or kept on a TV stand, does it really matter? My plasma TV is only 6.3 cm thick. Samsung PS50C6500 plasma TV is just 3.68 cm thick, whereas the Sony 46HX903 you like, is 6.7cm thick.
2 heavier
Again, does it matter? Are you going to lift it everyday? Still, let's compare a 46-inch TV. Panasonic 46G20 weighs 27kg while Sony 46HX903 weighs 30.2kg without stand. And the Samsung 50-inch plasma (PS50C6500)? A mere 24.5kg.
3 noisier
Not really. Some of the plasmas buzz a bit. I can't hear my plasma buzzing.
4 hotter
In my 15 months of use of my plasma, I never noticed it becoming hot.
5 use greater amounts of power
Yes, around £10 per annum extra power than an LCD.
6 have more reflective glass screens
Yes, their glass screens tend to be reflective. Just change the angle of the screen by just a bit to overcome this issue.
7 tend to suffer from phosphor trailing
Extremely rare among newer plasmas. I haven't noticed any in mine.
8 tend to suffer from screen burn
Again, not an issue among newer plasmas. Only 1 LG model & a Samsung model in the current lineup temporarily retain images. Otherwise, this has been overcome.
Have you considered these points about plasmas' advantages over LCDs?
1) Better blacks - great for shadow details & dark scene, and for "cinema quality" experience.
2) Better motion handling inherently with superior response times - Does not require artificial processors like 200Hz etc. & great for watching sports & playing games. LCDs tend to suffer from motion judder a bit more than plasmas.
3) Wider angle of viewing - Although newer LCDs are overcoming this problem, plasmas have a wider off axis viewing.
4) Colour accuracy - Plasmas tend to exhibit colours more accurately than LCDs .This is a personal preference, as many people prefer the oversaturated colours of LCD. Also depends on lighting.
The best TV ever to be made is a plasma (Pioneer Kuro) - this has been endorsed by all the reviews of this TV. It's yet to be surpassed convincingly, even after 2 years. You can check its reviews online.
Have you checked this news?
All I'm saying is, choose a TV regardless of technology. Just audition all TVs & pick which you feel has the best picture quality.
Some of Sony LCDs are fatter than plasmas. Once hung on a wall or kept on a TV stand, does it really matter? My plasma TV is only 6.3 cm thick. Samsung PS50C6500 plasma TV is just 3.68 cm thick, whereas the Sony 46HX903 you like, is 6.7cm thick.
2 heavier
Again, does it matter? Are you going to lift it everyday? Still, let's compare a 46-inch TV. Panasonic 46G20 weighs 27kg while Sony 46HX903 weighs 30.2kg without stand. And the Samsung 50-inch plasma (PS50C6500)? A mere 24.5kg.
3 noisier
Not really. Some of the plasmas buzz a bit. I can't hear my plasma buzzing.
4 hotter
In my 15 months of use of my plasma, I never noticed it becoming hot.
5 use greater amounts of power
Yes, around £10 per annum extra power than an LCD.
6 have more reflective glass screens
Yes, their glass screens tend to be reflective. Just change the angle of the screen by just a bit to overcome this issue.
7 tend to suffer from phosphor trailing
Extremely rare among newer plasmas. I haven't noticed any in mine.
8 tend to suffer from screen burn
Again, not an issue among newer plasmas. Only 1 LG model & a Samsung model in the current lineup temporarily retain images. Otherwise, this has been overcome.
Have you considered these points about plasmas' advantages over LCDs?
1) Better blacks - great for shadow details & dark scene, and for "cinema quality" experience.
2) Better motion handling inherently with superior response times - Does not require artificial processors like 200Hz etc. & great for watching sports & playing games. LCDs tend to suffer from motion judder a bit more than plasmas.
3) Wider angle of viewing - Although newer LCDs are overcoming this problem, plasmas have a wider off axis viewing.
4) Colour accuracy - Plasmas tend to exhibit colours more accurately than LCDs .This is a personal preference, as many people prefer the oversaturated colours of LCD. Also depends on lighting.
The best TV ever to be made is a plasma (Pioneer Kuro) - this has been endorsed by all the reviews of this TV. It's yet to be surpassed convincingly, even after 2 years. You can check its reviews online.
Have you checked this news?
All I'm saying is, choose a TV regardless of technology. Just audition all TVs & pick which you feel has the best picture quality.
professorhat
Well-known member
bigboss:All I'm saying is, choose a TV regardless of technology. Just audition all TVs & pick which you feel has the best picture quality.
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