Frequency response

Nadeac

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What does it mean when it comes to speakers ,say for instance 50 khz /80 khz

Which is the low and which is the high? and which way do u need to go get a speaker that handle lower frequncys ?if that sounds right!

Thanks Mark
 
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Anonymous

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its generally accepted that you can hear between 20 vibrations and 20,000 vibrations per second. thats 20hz to 20Khz. Mains electricity is 50hz and you can kinda hear the 50 osilations per second. You cant count them, but its slow enough to comprehend it. its low frequency noise. something resonating around 15Khz (15,000) is just a constant noise to our ears as at these frequencys we just cant pick out the individual vibrations. it just screams constantly to our ears.
 

Nadeac

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So if speaker A had a FS of 55hz-20khz and speaker B 68hz-20khz {i take it Kilo hertz is the high note side }then speaker A would be able to handle lower notes better?

Thanks again Mark
 

radovantz

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Nadeac:So if speaker A had a FS of 55hz-20khz and speaker B 68hz-20khz {i take it Kilo hertz is the high note side }then speaker A would be able to handle lower notes better?

Thanks again Mark

Speaker A would handle lower frequency better
 

up the music

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Yes, agree with all above.

Do you have a more specific query on changing to a new pair of speakers? That might be more useful for quick advice than techy questioning.

I'll try to simplify the following based on limited understanding. If I'm wrong or you have a more elegant explanation please post it.

Your Q Acoustics are -3dB at 68Hz, with sensitivity of 86dB.

Think of dB (decibels) as a measure of loudness.

They give 86dB (to within 3dB) when given 1 watt of input from the amp measured 1 metre in front of the speaker across most of their frequency range.

If you visualize a square root sign without that initial little downstroke hook, that's what a typical frequency response looks like.

At really low frequencies say 40Hz they'll be just about silent.

Between there and 68Hz they get progressively louder quite quickly until at 68Hz they'll be at 83dB (86-3=83).

Between 68 and say 100Hz they'll get slowly louder until they flatline above say 100Hz and stay pretty much that loud through to 20kHz.

Another important factor in how deep they will play is the slope or speed at which the response curve rises to 68Hz.

You might find that if that slope is shallow they'll produce more really deep bass than the other speaker which is -3dB at 55Hz if that rolls off very quickly below 55Hz.

One point of potential confusion is that you give an example of a speaker with an 'FS of 55hz-20khz'. I think you do mean the +/-3dB range, but Fs is also a term driver manufacturers use to denote the frequency at which a speaker cone resonates.

Also frequencies are not linear. You'll perceive about the same difference in tone for every doubling of frequency (octave). So 200Hz to 400Hz sound about as different to one another as 3200Hz and 6400Hz do.

At the low frequencies you can move your speakers toward the walls to get more low end loudness in the room. Basically low frequencies are reflected off the walls. Middle of room will give least bass boost, then one wall, then two walls, then corner floor or ceiling will give most.

Hope this helps or is useful.
 

Nadeac

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Thanks for the replys,the problem being if i play bass heavy music through my nad amp and 1010i s they tend to get distorted at about 3rd volume

Anyway turning the bass control down gets rid of distorion ,but obviously what bass theres is gone aswell.Been thinking of upgradeing to the next size up speakers for a few months now even though my 1010 s are only six months old .My choices were

Mordaunt shorts 1020i

Wharfdale 9.1

Tannoy F1 custom

They all have bigger drivers and bigger cases,i nearly bought the 1020 ,but then found out about the rear fireing bass port shouldnt be against a wall ,no good to me

I then turned to the 9.1s again i was about to buy some for around £110 ,but the physical size of them means they are gettin a bit big as well as fussy

Anyway purchased some F1s off ebay last new delivered for £70

Wish id have bought a pair of the bigger bookshelf speakers to begin with as opposed to the 1010is

To cut a long story short i was comparing the specs in theory the F1s should be better at lower notes than the 1010s,they also have a higher db

Mark
 

up the music

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Well the Tannoys are well liked speakers, and 70 quid sounds good.
they're only a tad more efficient than the Q's though. If you're still having problems with distortion it may be that you're driving the NAD amp too hard. It should be a pretty good budget system though.
 

chebby

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friendly1_uk:its generally accepted that you can hear between 20 vibrations and 20,000 vibrations per second. thats 20hz to 20Khz.

That top end frequency is a little optimistic for anyone older than their twenties and increasingly so with advancing age.

I recently donned my Sennheiser HD-595s and (in a quiet room) tested my hearing on some university website doing research into human hearing. Sorry I cannot remember which one.

my hearing was fine right across the the board from 30 hz until 16 khz where I needed 3db uplift in my right ear and 6db uplift in my left ear to get the same perceived sound levels as all the lower frequency bands. Beyond 16khz I was barely able to hear the signal without significantly more volume in the right ear and I cannot be sure I could hear above 16khz at all in my left.

I am 48 years old so this is normal. (Apparently being able to hear 16khz at all - in ANY ear - at 48 years is very good so I was glad I did the test!)

My 16 year old daughter could hear the 16khz in both ears without any adjustment.

So if you are very young (or a bat or a dog) then 16khz - 20khz will be hearable. If you are in your 40s (and have not abused your ears) then I would think 12khz - 16khz will be the limit and any extra expense on 'supertweeters' will be wasted.

ps.. the test was only effective with headphones that surround the ear and NOT loudspeakers where such high frequencies are easily killed off by the least amount of background noise.
 

Nadeac

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Ok thanks for replys ,call me stupid but u go on about driveing the amp to hard ?

What is actually meant by this ?seen it a lot on the forum

Mark
 
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Anonymous

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if an amp is numbered to 10, then full volume is ofton achieved at 5. The reason being that some sources or recordings are quieter than others, and so you need more crankability to achieve your amps rated output when playing such quiet things. If full volume was at number 10, then with some sources you could never get the full loudness from your amp if it was not this way.

Now, although number 5 is full volume in many cases, thats still dependant on what your playing. Its generally full volume at number 5 if your playing a very flat recording with no extra bass or trable volume being added with the tone controls. Bass takes much more power to produce than anything else. If you have something like +6db of bass wound on then running out of steam before number 4 is common place. Many people blame there speakers for distaughtion when its actually there amp distaughting. The number of idiots that have span my volume round towards 10 to see how loud my kit is.... well. Thats another story. Some dont even think something is loud unless its distaughted. They have never really learned what loud is, and think distaughtion is there ears not the kit.

edit: sorry. Im ranting :)
 

Jitter

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Your amp is real quality and at 40 watts is no slouch. However, if you turn it up it begins to run out of grunt at some point. You would expect that to be when the volume is all the way over, but it isn't always. It's just like a car really. A small engine runs out of push and starts to sound strained at some point when you are accelerating. It may sound strained at a different speed if you are going up a hill rather than going down. Amplifiers driving speakers will get strained at different at volumes depending on the characteristics of the speaker.

Amps have a particularly difficult job driving the woofers (which produce bass). The woofer is moving a great deal of air in order to produce bass. This puts a strain on the amp and is heard as distortion when the volume is high.

The answer is to run your amp at below the distortion level, or get a more powerful amplifier.

The other thing that distortion can do is damage your speakers. Your speakers, for instance, are capable of dealing with amplifiers more powerful than your current one. However, if you run the amp too loud and distortion happens, the woofer moves in an uncontrolled way which will rapidly cause damage.

Hope this helps. If it doesn't, put your question a different way. It is probably us being thick and not understanding your question.
 

Tony_R

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Nadeac:

Anyway turning the bass control down gets rid of distorion ,but obviously what bass theres is gone aswell.

Mark

If your bass dissapears to that extent, I would check the phase of your speakers.

By this I mean - ensure that the "+" of the speaker outputs (left and right) on the amp are connected to the "+" input on your speakers and that the "-" is connected accordingly.

I have just noticed that the 1010's are a relatively compact speaker however, so you can't really expect thunderous bass - and if you're cranking up the bass control on your amp, there's every likelyhood you're overloading the bass driver in the speaker too.

Do the speakers ever make a sound - something like loud "clack" sound? (can't think of a better way to describe it!)

Tony.
 

Nadeac

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The speakers are in phase ,i checked them and yes u could describe it as a clack ,It only does it with bass heavy music which i suppose has a high recording level

At the end of the day i suppose u could say that im overdriveing the amp like i was previously told

Anyway my F1s turned up today and first impressions they seem better ,they are certanly a much bigger speaker with bigger drivers

I will see what they are like when they are runin and when i have the house free so i can crank the volume up !

Thanks again Mark
 

Tony_R

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Hi Mark,

That 'clack' sound you hear is the bass drivers hitting the stops. In most (all?) woofers, there is a stop, to prevent the cone from ending up wrapped around your ear
emotion-1.gif
- so it sounds like you have simply been pumping too much bass into them, at too high a volume....

Good luck with the bigger speakers, and I hope they give the sound you're looking for.

Cheers,

Tony.
 
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Anonymous

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Nadaec - Sorry I havent had time to read the full post as its really
late. My advice would be NOT initially to change your speakers. It
would be to find what the limiting factor in your system is.

Is
the amplifier causing the distortion to the lower frequencies at a high
volume by being driven too hard (ie not having enough power/current to
drive the speakers) or......

Is it the speakers. And then take
the appropriate action. Apologises but I am not familiar with your kit
so I would suggest any answers on my question to help Nadaec out would
be your first start.
Again sorry if im repeating something thats already mentioned.
 

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