FrankHarveyHiFi

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jaxwired

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Feb 7, 2009
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David, Thanks for all those great pics on Flickr. Really enjoyed taking a peek inside your store. What an amazing selection of top notch gear! And great pics too. Really nice closeups. Those spendor SA1s are gorgeous, wow! Oh how I wish I could visit your store (I'm in USA). I'd gladly pay full retail price to a dealer like you. There is truly nothing comparable in the USA. The market is very different over here.

I'm curious, do you sell the floor models as people make purchases? I'm amazed that you can have so much demo stock.
 
Hi Jax

Thanks. The close ups aren't too great technically (as Force will probably tell you!) as I'm still learning on the photography front. I do have a macro lens, but I didn't use it for those shots, it was just the standard lens.

I just thought it was a good idea as most pictures you see of ewuipment are in brochures and on websites, which are usually face front ones or a 'system in a room pic'. There's never any pics that show tiny details, or obscure angles, which is what I'm taking more of now. Expect more as I'll be constantly adding to it when I get free time at work to do so.

I've always found that most stores stick to a small group of manufacturers, which is great if you've found what works in that area, but it's hardly going to create any interest from people who aren't local. It's such a cut throat industry that you have to broaden your customer base - you can't just rely on local business any more. The internet has helped this, and I'm sure there are many on this website, including yourself, who would probably have never heard of us 20 years ago. Of course, the internet has it's drawbacks too.

So what we're trying to achieve, and which has worked extremely well for us, is to try and provide a store where people can hear most of what they want under one roof. It's all about choice, but also a choice of quality products. We find speakers are the most popular thing peope want to change, so we have quite a large range, especially at our most popular price point, between £2,000 and £4,000. Usually you'll find most dealers have a couple of choices here, and sometimes only one! And if we had room for EVERYTHING we have on our website we'd have to open a superstore! I did tell Frank we should've moved into Woolworths old store, but he likes the 500 year old building he's in
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I would've thought there were loads of high end audio places in the US? Seeing as there's so much high end gear over there, I'd have thought there was lots of places to offer the best America (and Canada) has to offer?

We keep stock of most budget and mid priced items on the website, and some more expensive electronics, but we only have so much storage space, so speakers are more awkward. Again, we keep a lot of budget speakers, and some mid priced, which are there to cover internet orders, but higher end speakers a are a little different. Because a range of 5 speakers could come in 4 or 5 different finishes, and most manufacturers have 3 or 4 ranges, you'd need huge storage space. And that's without AV packages. Many speaker manufacturers we can get delivered next day, so those we tend to keep to order. Small manufacturers like ATC we keep a few popular models in stock as you'd usually have to wait a week or two for them to build them. With how popular our internet site has become, and the range we have in store, it's a big job keeping on top of it all, keeping up to date with what's popular and selling, and what's not, and even just adding new profiles to the internet store for new products, whcih seems to be an ongoing thing due to how large the range is.

We'd like to open a couple of other high end accounts, wich will be quite a large investment, and we'd need to ensure we have the room for them in store. maybe some news on that soon.....
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We don't usually sell demo models unless we need to get fresh stock out, but as I've said above, many speaker manufacturers we can get next day, or a few days at worst, and most people don't mind waiting a few days when they're buying a £3k speaker, for example. Most electronics we can get within 3 or 4 days, if we don't keep it in stock already.

I hope that gives ou a little insight about us
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Regards

David
 
Great response and fascinating. Thanks! And I agree with Frank, that building looks very cool indeed.

Just to touch a bit more on the American retail situation. Outside of the big Californian cities and New York City, the hifi retail industry is dead. Big cities tend to have one or two boutique dealers, but they carry very little stock or demo equipment and typically deal to the very high end only. Home cinima has eclipsed hifi in the USA much more than it has in the UK. Most stereo retailers switched to the higher profit and bigger market of home cinima long ago. My medium sized city in Florida has 3 hifi dealers, but they still cater mostly to home cinima and have only a few brands to demo. And when they do carry a brand, they usually only have 2 or 3 models of that line available to hear. I seriously doubt their is a dealer with your selection of demo stock in the entire USA.

The thing is that the main stream American consumer does not care about or buy hifi anymore. So the retailers went away as the market dried up. Yes there are still plenty of American high end manufacturers, but their market has shrunk dramatically over the last 2 decades. And the buyers are mostly aging older men (45 and up). So the buying market will continue to shrink because little new blood is being recruited to the hobby here. Because the market is now such a niche market, the internet is starting to play a major role. I really think a new business model is starting to develop for high end audio in the USA.
 
Which will probably be a shame. High end audio and it's matching of, is an art, and needs very careful and extensive auditioning. The internet shuld play no role in this other than an informative website pertaining to the high end models in question.

The market does dictate product profiles and what the retailer can and can't get involved in, and it sems in the US the lack of interest has killed quality hi-fi dealers. We find that our 2 channel business is comparable to our AV business, which is why we're able to sustain the range that we have. If people demand it, we'll supply it.

The good thing about our sitation is that the UK isn't really that big place, and people will happily travel a few hundred miles in order to audition the choice they want under one roof, and to find a decent dealer. I suppose with the size of the US, and with such vast unpopulated areas between cities, makes that impossible.
 
David
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That's why I find it hard to believe it's in such decline over there. By the sounds of it, if we opened a store there, it wouldn't last.
 
I think David is right. A FrankHarveyHiFi in America would be very unlikely to succeed the way things are right now. HiFi in the states is way too much a niche market to have a big store like that. Maybe you could do it in LA or NYC...maybe. The mainstream consumer in the USA buys all electronics at big box stores like costco and best buy. Not sure if you guys have those, but they are huge warehouse stores that sell shrink wrapped mass market electronics like home theater in a box type products as well as many appliances. And very very few main stream consumers have dedicated hifis in their homes anymore. They have home theaters and that's it. And they are cheapo home theater products too. Like what you might find at walmart.

Yes, there is still high end audio in America. We have 300 million people so even if 1/10 of 1% is interested, it's still a viable business (and that's probably not far off from the true market size, just a wild guess of course). But because those people are so spread out all over the USA, the internet is becoming more important to serve those customers. I agree that it's not a good solution, but brick and mortar stores just can't get enough local business from hifi products. The hifi stores that are still open have survived by selling high end home cinima products and doing lots of expensive custom installation work for home cinima and then "oh by the way, we have some 2 channel stuff in the back if you are interested..."
 
Very nice photos! Nice, neat and tidy shop!! Hope all goes well!!
 
1978:By the way , I'm always impressed by the professional answers and wording you give on this forum. You really know the gear very well.

Thank you 1978
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jaxwired:The mainstream consumer in the USA buys all electronics at big box stores like costco and best buy. Not sure if you guys have those, but they are huge warehouse stores that sell shrink wrapped mass market electronics like home theater in a box type products as well as many appliances. And very very few main stream consumers have dedicated hifis in their homes anymore. They have home theaters and that's it. And they are cheapo home theater products too. Like what you might find at walmart.

We're about to have Best Buy stores scattered around our little island, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. I think a few retailers are scared, but many manufacturers over here wouldn't entertain their products being sold in such a store, and like our supermarkets, are probably going to concentrate on 'own brand' products in order to make some money. So stores like ours should be pretty safe - it's the budget stores that should be worrying.

Yes, there is still high end audio in America. We have 300 million people so even if 1/10 of 1% is interested, it's still a viable business (and that's probably not far off from the true market size, just a wild guess of course). But because those people are so spread out all over the USA, the internet is becoming more important to serve those customers. I agree that it's not a good solution, but brick and mortar stores just can't get enough local business from hifi products.

Things are a little more strict over here, maybe because it can be when compared to the size of the US. More and more manufacturers are stopping the sale of their products on the internet, and forcing customers into stores. With internet sales, no one ends up making any money, so in order to preserve the industry they're only making their products available if you pick them up from a store. Most high end stuff can't be purchased via the internet here.
 
I'm looking forward to you opening a FrankHarveyHiFi in Jamaica...
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I've also been impressed with the pics on your website and the range of products... One of the problems I found when I was living in Toronto, was that all the Hi-Fi dealers had rather limited selection of products... so I had to go out of the way to audition products (using different supporting gear each time) and making real comparisons almost impossible... Jamaica is even worse... We have basically 2 HiFi shops: one of which has a couple of items in the show room & the other has no showroom and justs imports when you order...
 
JMO The concensous from my north American view is that in audio we look to Europeans. It has to do with recordings and sound quality

A few people I speak with, believe you guys/gals have more of a want for quality sound. I don't know that many people that have 2 channel systems in their homes. Surround sound has taken over and everyone expects it to be cheap. and as we have Bestbuys and Futureshops (not the same as the futureshop in UK) this is the first place they hear about HIFI. (Not the best place ). I fell in that trap when I was younger. Then you go to a Higher end store were the guys just love selling audio gear and knows so much and you start to learn..

This is why you have people like myself learning from sites and individuals on WhatHiFi and other well known(I don't think I am allowed to say)sites.

P.S. What I am saying is Thank You... Thank you FrankHarveyHiFi, Whathifi Team,etc...( I am not going to name everyone
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) for taking the time to answer our questions and make us better informed.
 
FrankHarveyHiFi:

We're about to have Best Buy stores scattered around our little island, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. I think a few retailers are scared, but many manufacturers over here wouldn't entertain their products being sold in such a store, and like our supermarkets, are probably going to concentrate on 'own brand' products in order to make some money. So stores like ours should be pretty safe - it's the budget stores that should be worrying.

Having said that, we are now seeing lower to medium range hi-fi and AV appearing in places like the new Currys Megastores, mostly the Japanese manufacturers but the likes of KEF, NAD, Bose and Sonos and so forth are included and they have a system (lord knows how it works...) whereby you can mix and match any speakers (including swapping out the sub), with any amp and any blu-ray/cd player, via a touch screen display, very clever, although not ideally setup obviously as the front wall is all speakers at varying widths apart.

Interestingly there's no mention of any of it on the Currys website.
 
Over here in little Norway we have many dedicated HIFI shops and a couple of chains. They do also carry home cinema gear but mainly HIFI and as i understand it 2 channel audio is making a big comeback. The really big electronic chains are even starting to include more 2 channel and they have focused almost exclusivly on home cinema stuff for at least a decade now.

There has to be a big enough market in the US for a few pure HIFI shops when you consider that there are twice as many people living in NYC alone as there are in my entire country =)
 
Great looking shop with great gear.

I'm amazed after reading this thread about the hifi/av situation in the US. I always thought you were all spoilt over there for choice and prices. It now looks like we are the spoilt ones now.

I do agree that the local shops near me are more AV than hifi now though.

Forums like ours are more useful than ever.
 
One of the biggest (probably THE biggest) catalog / web based electronics retailer in the USA, crutchfield, recently started a campaign to sell and focus on high quality 2 channel audio. They called the campaign Hi-Fi 2.0 (everything is 2.0 now LOL). And they have a new section on their web site called "Signature". This is a direct response to lack of brick and mortar retailers. If internet sales have not surpassed brick and mortar sales of high end audio in the usa, they will soon. Big name brands available via authorized online dealers include: NAD, KRELL, CA, DALI, BRYSTON, THIEL, REGA, MARANTZ, EPOS, KLIPSCH, PSB, VELODYNE, MUSICAL FIDELITY, CREEK. Of course there are dozens more.

Obviously, it's a broken business model. How can you buy expensive audio products without hearing them first?

Also, the used high end market is very active. This is one way for people to buy untested products with less risk. Very popular approach.
 
Boca: P.S. What I am saying is Thank You... Thank you FrankHarveyHiFi, Whathifi Team,etc...( I am not going to name everyone
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) for taking the time to answer our questions and make us better informed.

A pleasure
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the_lhc:Having said that, we are now seeing lower to medium range hi-fi and AV appearing in places like the new Currys Megastores, mostly the Japanese manufacturers but the likes of KEF, NAD, Bose and Sonos and so forth are included and they have a system (lord knows how it works...) whereby you can mix and match any speakers (including swapping out the sub), with any amp and any blu-ray/cd player, via a touch screen display, very clever, although not ideally setup obviously as the front wall is all speakers at varying widths apart.

It'll be a phase they're going through
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Stores like that see how popular separates are and want a piece of the action, but when they try it, they find themselves struggling to justify continuing it based on the money it brings in for them. It's a bit like your local newsagent selling sprouts.
 
joestone: Over here in little Norway we have many dedicated HIFI shops and a couple of chains. They do also carry home cinema gear but mainly HIFI and as i understand it 2 channel audio is making a big comeback.

Maybe it's a European thing then!
 
FrankHarveyHiFi:the_lhc:Having said that, we are now seeing lower to medium range hi-fi and AV appearing in places like the new Currys Megastores, mostly the Japanese manufacturers but the likes of KEF, NAD, Bose and Sonos and so forth are included and they have a system (lord knows how it works...) whereby you can mix and match any speakers (including swapping out the sub), with any amp and any blu-ray/cd player, via a touch screen display, very clever, although not ideally setup obviously as the front wall is all speakers at varying widths apart.

It'll be a phase they're going through
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Stores like that see how popular separates are and want a piece of the action, but when they try it, they find themselves struggling to justify continuing it based on the money it brings in for them. It's a bit like your local newsagent selling sprouts.

Maybe so but they're putting some effort in it, the section is walled off from the rest of the store and the droid in there is a bit more clued up than the average ones (that's not saying a lot understandably...), they're even selling projectors, so it's not exactly lip service. It's also more convenient for me, Bristol has some big name hi-fi dealers but they're all in places where it's an absolute ***** to park and they're not accessible in the space of a lunch hour, so if I fancy a quick gear fix the megastore's actually easier to get to.

Have to say though I'm still a bit nervous about buying that sort of kit from somewhere like that!
 
I appreciate they're putting the effort in, but from experience, it's usually something they try and see how it goes for them. You need maximum effort nowadays - trained staff, stock, choice, ideal demo environment, home loans/demos, marketing etc etc.

I've always thought they should do well with that sort of thing because they have the buying power, plenty of space, and they get so much more foot fall than any dedicated hi-fi retailer. But in practice, it's different. They're known for mini and micro systems and portable audio, not for hi-fi separates. Always best to stick to what you're best at!!

That's why I never became a brain surgeon
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David, please let me know when you need a cleaner for the shop. I'll come after closing time, whack on a few CDs and polish and dust for hours every night. Some mornings you may find I am still there, cleaning. I asked first, so the jobs mine 😉

Jaxwired, is there not a big market for computer based music due to the likes of Pandora? From what you say, I now understand better why Bose are so annoying to many US audiophiles. Compared with other products, people will think that they have bought the best.

As for Norway having lots of hifi shops and the US hardly any in comparison, well that is down to Jarga Jazzist and Magic Pie when compared to Brittany Spears and Snoop Doogy Dog.
 
idc: David, please let me know when you need a cleaner for the shop. I'll come after closing time, whack on a few CDs and polish and dust for hours every night. Some mornings you may find I am still there, cleaning. I asked first, so the jobs mine 😉

Depends how cheap you are! The current one is cheap, but rubbish. Hence, things get a little dusty (not too far from the ring road which doesn't help!). One word of warning though - it's bloody freezing!! Being a 500 year old building, we can't have central heating or air conditioning. All we have is 2 calor gas fires for 3 floors! Some days you just can't feel your fingers....

Anybody coming for a demo this time of year, bring your gloves
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