Finally took the dive and bought my first full system! Onkyo 609 with KEF Q500, Q200 and Q100s

[XSnPX]

Dear All,

After many years of thinking and dreaming and reading W-hifi i took the plunge.

My first choice was either the Yamaha 671 or Onkyo 609 with the Q Acoustic set-up.. But... Today I listened to the following:

On both amps:

Mission MX5s

B&W 684s

KEF Q500s

Despite being at a different price level from original thoughts I thought that the Onkyo on Stereo mode had a lot more control and power compared to the Yamaha. The Yamaha was good, but a softer more subtle sound, and I prefered the power of the Onkyo in stereo.

The Missions were no good for me and a lot was missing especially in the mid and low range and did not have much control with the amps of choice.

Then was the B&Ws which blew the Missions away and really liked them and were going to me the choice i was going to make until the retailer asked me to listen to the Q500s, similarly priced and they were amaing, by far better than the B&Ws with the Onkyo as amp choice. The soundstage and surrounding feeling the stereo did, was just great and there was no more listening to them and went for the dive.

I matched the Q500s with the rear Q100s and centre Q200 without the sub for now in order to stay within my budget, this will come at a later stage...

I could not find a reveiw of them on here, and as others, the Qs are a 100% trial for anyone looking for a new speaker...

Cant wait for the delivery to arrive Thursday and set them up!!!

Will comment and make pictures for those interested next week

Regards

ben

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Good choice Ben!

I demo'd the B&W's and mighty MA RX6's and came out with the same conclusion. Keep us informed, once they arrive.....

 

[XSnPX]

Thank you for comment... cant wait for Thursday

 

[XSnPX]

Recieved my goodies yesterday and took the day to set-it all up and 6 hours later it is all set for fine tuning and get my head round the amp and all the modes it offers.

It looks great and really happy with it. Got everything apart from the sub. Will see if i can do without it for now, or not...

Here are some pics of my set-up and wanted to thank everyone who have helped me int he past and recently... all good!

(better Q pics to come soon)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/862/img1678b.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/img1677q.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/img1676nm.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/img1674j.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/img1673ed.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/img1670vd.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/img1665q.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/img1664k.jpg/

ben.

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Looking good there Ben........

Were you not tempted by some smaller rear speakers?? Eggs....T series?

Going to wall mount the centre above the tv at some point?

 

[XSnPX]

Hi there, all looking amazing have not stopped playing with it lol...

Keep changing things and finding new things about the amp as I go on....

I was looking at the eggs, centre and rear from the 3000 series i think, but when i saw there was £50 difference, i listened to them both, it was worth the 50 more, (+stands at 65)...

Now for the centre speaker... lol. my stand is not made for it, cant put anything on the wall either, so i had those options:

1: TV riser - 180mm best cost £165 custom made for my size and weight: http://www.luminati.co.uk/tv-or-monitor-riser-stand

2: Top of the TV stand as this: http://www.centerstagebracket.com/1210.html but they are based in Canada and no news if they deliver to UK yet.

3: Carving board, i needed a 40mm clearance to see the TV screen and put centre in front, but it looked really odd as the centre KEF is pretty deep... so i stopped this option. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rectangular-Chopping-Board-Grain-Natural/dp/B000G04NRU/ref=sr_1_21?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1326223378&sr=1-21

4: TV on centre, despite others saying not to, the speaker is really well built, my TV stand is perfect for it, for now got tea towls top and buttom to protect it until i can get something nicer or the option 2. Tv seems very well posed and speaker seems to take it well...



Ben.

 

[kevin7.1]

Very Nice system, Love the clean lines of the Kefs with the grilles on. Can only imagine how good it sounds!!! i actually really like your AV stand as well where is that from??

Kev.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Give the system a month or two and it'll be sounding great (even better than it does now ).

With the Audyssey setup, use as many mic points as you can, don't just do the minimum. Use them around the main area as well, not just where you sit, so you're overlapping, if you get my meaning.

 

[XSnPX]

Hi all, Thanks for the comments, system = me loving it cant wait when they are fully run in. Played with it till 4am last night/this morning...

The Hi-fi rack I bought a long ago, about 5 years ago on a website I accidently fell on called UK Good Deals and they sold 4 TV stands like mine in different sizes and in white as well. I managed to find the website I bought it off but they have changed their moto i guess as no longer sell lifestyle products... the website is:http://www.ukgooddeals.co.uk/about/. It might be worth emailing them where they got it supplied from.

The stand is really well built, the glass is of high quality and can hold a max weight of 150KGs, the stand itself weighs in at 85KG on its own, and when i first received and i had to build it on mu ows was a difficult one lol...

As for the mic settings, i used the Aud yesterdya to set the amp on in 3 locations. Am i able to do it in more locations.. i looked but unable to find how to increase to more than 3... any help appreciated, thank you.

Regards

Ben....

 

[Pistol Pete1]

If set up only offered three positions, then that's all you can do.....

Make sure each position is at least 1 metre apart......according to online manual.

 

[atanakata]

Well Done XSnPX ,

System looks great...But IMO you have to add a subwoofer ASAP... and you could do this without breaking the bank :

The one I am using is : WHARFEDALE DIAMOND SW150 SUBWOOFER . Great reviw by WHF and I know the reason why : It is

jsut a stunningly capable budget sub for as little as £ 150-160 . My one came from Superfi ( awful picture on their website by the

way , with the grille off . In reality looks a lot better ) , on a Free Delivery and it has been a great servant ever since... Also I

think you should turn your rears at 45 degrees towards your listening position on the settee . Then , your surround experience

will be as good as any... and the popcorn even sweeter

 

[XSnPX]

Thank you for your comments and advice, I have turned them towards the listening postion and it has really made a difference, thank you.

As for the sub, I understand a sub is really needed, not only for the low end, but the atmospheric sound it also creates in the room, but because i live in a flat of blocks, not made very well, i am worried that the sub will continously annoy my neighbours everytime we watch a film (which is at least 5 times a week, and now maybe more hehe) as low range is what goes through walls even if its not necessarily loud. I want a sub, and did not buy the one i wanted due to system went over my initial budget and also neighbours.

Still undecided about it despite knowing i need one for sure....still need to wait a couple of months anyway and will ponder about it and may just get one anyway and maybe there are many settings on the amp and sub to just add a little atmosphere in the room, which is missing at the moment to be honest despite being extremely happy with the system now...

Ben.

 

[XSnPX]

Also wanted to ask...

If i decided to bi-amp or bi-wire my front speakers only eventually, I guess that will drive the spealers harder and better as more power will be sent to them?

Will i have to do the same for the rears as well? Just thinking as will have to get another set of speaker cable and when i bought in total over 25 meters, it adds up quickly lol... and is it worth the extra £150 for cables to bi-wire?

The retailer told me that i did not need it because of the amp 609... is this because its a budget/average amp and it wont really make the difference we would expect?

thanks

Ben

 

[atanakata]

Well, here is a story...

I bought a receiver and floorstanders.Then in couple of months time the rears came on a very good offer. I bought them and having had an old centre speaker that a friend of mine had given to me earlier , I`ve set up my first surround system . As my floorstanders are quite bassy,I thought I could put up without a sub ... That scenario lasted only a month or so...Then I bought the SW 150 . First it was placed beside the front left floorstander and it sounded terrific . That was back when we use to live in a house in the UK . Then, moving back home in a block of flats like yourself, I was very worried about my neighbours too ... Now my sub sits against my lounge`s right wall , not directly infornt of me , and althought not that accurate and fast as before , the bass still shakes my sofa quite well and I couldn`t do without it ...And fortunately, my neighbours have been great so far ... no complains whatsoever . So before you give`em a try you wouldn`t know. That is why I dcided to buy a cheaper sub. Let`s say I did have problems with my neighbours - how would I feel If I`d spent £ 700 for the sub that completes my speakr package if I am was not able to use it the way I like... Despite being cheap the SW 150 is more than enough for a room like ours ( 5m x 3,5m ) .

Just to mention - I gave the neighbours some time to adapt - about a month or so I was gradualy altering the volume and the level of the Sub channel. You owe them that , you see... Hope yours are as easy-going as mine.

 

[atanakata]

Ok Ben,

Although your 609 is superior to my Denon 1909, they are both from the same league. I did the bi-amping of my fronts and to be completely honest with you I didn`t find some noticeable difference . Probably a more expensive and capable AVR would do the trick,but my-one didn`t.

In my opinion you`re not able to bi-amp more channels if you`ve already bi-amped the fronts. To bi-amp them you use the surround back channels and connect them to the front speakers HF + and - ... You have only 2 surround back channels, so you can bi-amp only two speakers and no more ... Hope that helps

 

[XSnPX]

Thx mate,

I think you rthinking aout the sub is a good one, and might just consdier it, and maybe a couple of others next month

for the bi-amp, this means if i understand correctly i would only be able to b-wire the front L+R floorstanders. I have some spare (althouth) different speaker wire, might give it a shot maybe and see what diff it makes, especially for stereo mode hopefully.

Thx again

Ben

 

[Pistol Pete1]

After extensive testing and blind testing with numerous people, these KEF speakers NEED to be at the very least bi wired.........

Why? Simple.....the clever selector knobs and electronics behind that knob robs the speakers of their very best! Shame, cos its a great way to make adjustment at the back of the speakers very easy.

I bi wire the front speakers from my Pioneer stereo amp (pre out from Denon), and even bi wire the centre speaker. The rear speakers are single wired.....

Originally when the Denon powered the front speakers, I bi amped them.......

 

[atanakata]

You see Ben, people with more experience and knowledge ... If PistolPete says so , I think you should definitely give it a go ( for the front speakers ) . Just make sure you don`t mix up the therms "Bi-amp" with "Bi-wire"

http://www.brilliancehifi.co.uk/how-to-bi-wire-speakers.htm

This is how to Bi-wire them. You just use another set of speaker cables . You can see that very clearly on the 2nd pic.

"Bi-Amping " is a different story. You connect the Front L and R " + " and " - " from your receiver to the LF " + " and " - " of your speakers and then you connect the Surround Back " + " and " - " from receiver to the HF " + " and " - " of the speakers. But that should also be very detaily explained in the AVR`s manual. You should then change the setting of the AVR - to make it in Bi-Amp mode , which switches off the Surround Back ( 6h and 7th channel ) and the power goes to the fronts instead.

But in both cases : Bi-Wire or Bi-Amp make sure you REMOVE THE METAL BARS connecting the HF and LF of the speakers

 

[atanakata]

You see Ben, people with more experience and knowledge ... If PistolPete says so , I think you should definitely give it a go ( for the front speakers ) . Just make sure you don`t mix up the therms "Bi-amp" with "Bi-wire"

http://www.brilliancehifi.co.uk/how-to-bi-wire-speakers.htm

This is how to Bi-wire them. You just use another set of speaker cables . You can see that very clearly on the 2nd pic.

"Bi-Amping " is a different story. You connect the Front L and R " + " and " - " from your receiver to the LF " + " and " - " of your speakers and then you connect the Surround Back " + " and " - " from receiver to the HF " + " and " - " of the speakers. But that should also be very detaily explained in the AVR`s manual. You should then change the setting of the AVR - to make it in Bi-Amp mode , which switches off the Surround Back ( 6h and 7th channel ) and the power goes to the fronts instead.

But in both cases : Bi-Wire or Bi-Amp make sure you REMOVE THE METAL BARS connecting the HF and LF of the speakers

 

[Pistol Pete1]

'But in both cases : Bi-Wire or Bi-Amp make sure you REMOVE THE METAL BARS connecting the HF and LF of the speakers'

No metal bars on the KEF's......if you bi wire/amp, turn the knobs on the rear of each speaker so you can see the yellow line.

 

[atanakata]

Ops , sorry Didn`t know that ...

 

[XSnPX]

Thank you for the tips guys.

I have some spare sp]eaker wire left over and will give it a go this weekend. Sorry i took so long to get back to you, been a busy few days...

Still enjoying my system, but it really needs a sub just to create that extra atmosphere in the room, not necessairly the low bass lacking....

Thx again

Ben.

 

[XSnPX]

Hi kevin,

Despite i cannot find my stand anywhere, have a look at here as they have a few similar ones that may be of interest for you.

http://dwell.co.uk/search/TV/

Ben.

 

[XSnPX]

Hi all,

It took some time to do it, but buying more speaker cable was another £75 so waited a little bit and purchased it today, plygged it all in and Bi-Amped my front speakers.

The difference is incredible, night and day - most reviews and advice say it wont make such a difference but you were right - its just put a new level on my stereo listening LOVE IT!

Thanks again for all the help between bi-wire and Bi-amp, but went bi-amp as it seemed to be the better option and separate power to each of the HF and LF

Kindest regards to all

Ben.