Hello to everyone! A couple of months ago I upgraded my soundcard to a suposely much better one with great reviews and testings,advertised for its great dac and snr...good op pamps etc...But when I installed it on my pc...I started to mention something strange. I am playing music through asio,the soundcard its connected with rca cables to the logiteck z 5500 (a I am going to upgrade to an amplifier and some real stereo speakers soon but for now thats my seutp).Anyway when I am playing mostly mp3's but some flacs too...there seems to be some kind of distortion on the sound...like the sound the old radio does when you don't have the knob in the right stations but somewhere between.That doesent happen with all the music files and it doesent happen when I am listening music with internet radio or watching a movie on my pc.If the soundcard was fautly would be doing this in every sound that would came out of it wouldnt it? Do you think that its maby my speakers that doesnt play along with the soundcard?Could be the mp3's and its poor quality?Or can my soundcard being faulty maby doesent work on some frequecnies? Thank you in advanced for your answers...
Faulty dac or faulty files?
- Thread starter maxpain
- Start date
abacus
Well-known member
Go to the manufactures website and download the latest drivers to see if this fixes the problem.
Make sure you are not sending too high an output to your speakers thus overloading their input. (Most speakers have their own volume control, so set it one third up then adjust the PC volume to give a nice balanced level)
Try another set of speakers if possible.
If the above still fails, there is probably a forum that relates to the manufactures products, so have a look through there or post the question on it.
Hope this helps
Bill
Make sure you are not sending too high an output to your speakers thus overloading their input. (Most speakers have their own volume control, so set it one third up then adjust the PC volume to give a nice balanced level)
Try another set of speakers if possible.
If the above still fails, there is probably a forum that relates to the manufactures products, so have a look through there or post the question on it.
Hope this helps
Bill
Thank you for your reply,I have tried to update my drivers.I forgot to mention that when I am lowering the sound level on my player (Foobar) this problem dissapears if I reduce the volume on -3 or -5 db.If i reduce the volume using the speakers knob the problem is still there.What do you mean by hight output? You mean not to have foobar at 100%? If this is the case why that doesent happen with all my music or movies but just with some mp3s and flacs? Do you think that this problem will go away with better speakers?
abacus
Well-known member
A good quality sound card will usually give a higher output signal than a cheaper one, and they can sometimes overload consumer grade amplified speakers. (That reducing the level in foobar solves the problem confirms this)
You will unlikely to be using foobar for watching films etc., so the output of these will probably be lower by default. (Hence you get no problem with them)
A pro quality active speaker system will solve the problem, but as you can pre-set the volume in foobar to -3db or less, then I wouldn’t worry about it.
Hope this helps
Bill
You will unlikely to be using foobar for watching films etc., so the output of these will probably be lower by default. (Hence you get no problem with them)
A pro quality active speaker system will solve the problem, but as you can pre-set the volume in foobar to -3db or less, then I wouldn’t worry about it.
Hope this helps
Bill
It really helps! Thank you...I was starting to think that my soundcard is problematic.This happens when I am playing music from youtube too.Can this overloading damage the spears?
steve_1979
Well-known member
abacus said:
I don't think this is the problem. It sounds like the signal is clipping not the speakers amplifer. From what maxpain describes the sound is still distorted even when the Logitech speaker volume is turned down (see post 2). The clipping only stops when the audio into the soundcard is reduced which suggests that the problem is caused by the soundcard or software.
abacus said:
I disagree. If the signal is clipping then you will continue to have the same problem no matter what amp/speaker you use.
steve_1979
Well-known member
I used to own some Logitech Z5500 speakers. They have 500 watts and go bloody loud before they start destorting. There's no lack of dynamic headroom with these speakers.
ps Sorry for the multiple posts. I ment to click 'edit' but pressed the 'quote' button by mistake. :doh:
ps Sorry for the multiple posts. I ment to click 'edit' but pressed the 'quote' button by mistake. :doh:
steve_1979
Well-known member
maxpain said:
This sounds like the sound card may be clipping at high volume settings for some reason. I'm not sure what could be causing this problem but it shouldn't be happening. It might be worth contacting the soundcard manufacturer to see what they say.
Have you tried a different music player to Foobar? Do you still hear the distortion with Windows Media Player or iTunes?
steve_1979
Well-known member
maxpain said:
An audio signal that's clipping will damage speakers at a much lower volume than an audio signal that's not clipping. This is because a clipping signal causes the amplifier to supply a brief DC current to the speakers instead of the usual AC current which you normally get with music. DC current burns out the voice coil in the speakers much easier than AC current does.
Your speakers should be fine so long as you keep the Logitech speaker volume low when you hear the clipping distortion. Be carful not to turn them up whenever the signal is clipping though.
Thank you very much for your multiple and very explaining posts! The truth is that I havent tried other spears to see if they are clipping too. But I have tried other software and it has the same resaults. The most strange thing is..that this ''clipping'' sound is there only for a few songs...and...it in some cases...it can differ with two different versions of the same songs.I have the same song..both in 2 mp3 versions..one is clipping the other is not. But if it was the soundcards fault..wouldnt that be with every sound that was producing? How can it play movies and games very smoothly..and doing that only when I play some songs? I can hear metallica at 100% in foobar and preety loud on my speakers without any clipping at all..but when I am listenin to jonh lennon's imagine...there is the ''clipping''...i have noticed that this sounds are there mostly when it comes to piano rickordings...its strage for sure!
abacus
Well-known member
I would be very surprised if it was the sound card clipping as the drivers manage the card so that it can’t. (Hence the reason I said to make sure he has the latest drivers)
If you overload the amplifier in the speakers by putting too much signal into the pre-amp section then this will cause the distortion mentioned. (The way a computer sound card handles volume is totally different to how a Hi Fi Amplifier handles volume, hence you cannot impose one methodology on another)
I have been working with computers and sound for years, and the description given matches the observations in my first post. (Another set of speakers with a higher input rating (As are most pro speakers) will also solve the problem as the sound card will not overload the input)
Hope this helps
Bill
If you overload the amplifier in the speakers by putting too much signal into the pre-amp section then this will cause the distortion mentioned. (The way a computer sound card handles volume is totally different to how a Hi Fi Amplifier handles volume, hence you cannot impose one methodology on another)
I have been working with computers and sound for years, and the description given matches the observations in my first post. (Another set of speakers with a higher input rating (As are most pro speakers) will also solve the problem as the sound card will not overload the input)
Hope this helps
Bill
I am using the native asio drivers that my card has. My card is the Auzentech x-meridian 2g...unforetunately the company company is closded (i think) and the site is dead so I cant really download any newer drivers...I have the lastest wich are 2 years old.But I tought that asio are seperate drivers that their purpose is to bypass the windows kmixer and the soundcards drivers. So I did some experimenting and I played the same music file with foobar and with bsplayer...(wich i play my movies)..and the resault was clipping again with bs player too.But if it is my soundcard that is clipping..is there anything that I can to except turning down the volume in the player?
steve_1979
Well-known member
maxpain said:
If the distortion was on the recording it wouldn't disappear when you lower the volume on Foobar.
maxpain said:
Perplexing. :?
steve_1979
Well-known member
Hehe...well..I guess hardware and software has their own ''unexplained'' things...I am going to try some other speakers...I am goind to download other drivers...but in the end if it doesent work out...I am going to selte for -5 db in foobar untill I get a new dac.One last thought I had is the possibility...that becaouse the logitechs has no tweeter...they are lacking very bad in the midrange...so could this be due to the dynamic range of the speakers? Again its just a thought.
steve_1979
Well-known member
Yes it would be worth borrowing some other speakers to see if it fixes the problem. What abacus says does make sense, although it's a problem that I've never come across before myself with soundcards in the past.
I know I never imagined that someone could overload the speakers with the output from the soundcard,I thought that this can only happen when you missmatch the amplifier with the speakers.I is an interesting idea and I am going to do several experiments on it becaouse unfortunately I can't really fit a new dac in the budget that I am going to spent for amplifier and speakers.Thank you both for your help and usefull information! Cheers!
steve_1979
Well-known member
If the problem is as abacus describes it would be the pre-amp section of the speakers that are being overloaded not the power amps or speakers. I've used a couple of soundcards with the Z5500 speakers and never come across across the problem but yours may well have a slightly higher output than the ones I used.
I have done a littel research and come up with some ideas. It does seem pretty clear that, as suggested by other posters, the output from the soundcard is too high for the speakers. Also I have come to the conclusion that it is unlkely new speakers/amp will help much.
Over the course of my reading I came across statements like this:
"Max output level is 5Vrms (Differential DAC output with gain adjustment"
"X-Meridian delivers a pristine bitstream to your AV equipment as well as the highest analog output levels of any sound card on the market"
Now it seems to me that 5v (if true) is way more thanb consumer line levels.
I've been trying to find a manual, and am struggling. But it seems to me that that there is some setting in the drivers/setup tool that all the user to change the output gain for the card. I would suggest that this setting is reduce to "unity gain" or line level or equivalent.
Hope this helps
Over the course of my reading I came across statements like this:
"Max output level is 5Vrms (Differential DAC output with gain adjustment"
"X-Meridian delivers a pristine bitstream to your AV equipment as well as the highest analog output levels of any sound card on the market"
Now it seems to me that 5v (if true) is way more thanb consumer line levels.
I've been trying to find a manual, and am struggling. But it seems to me that that there is some setting in the drivers/setup tool that all the user to change the output gain for the card. I would suggest that this setting is reduce to "unity gain" or line level or equivalent.
Hope this helps
It occured to me, It mayt be worth mentioning that I think "Pro" studio gear often runs at a higher level as standard, so studio monitors may help, but i'm sure they wouldn't handle 5Vrms.
But i think the solution is to fix the output levels on the soundcard before trying or buying new gear.
But i think the solution is to fix the output levels on the soundcard before trying or buying new gear.
First of all I would like to thank you all for your interest in my problem! I really had a lot of usefull information from you! As for the output level of the soundcard,my knowledge on the matter is practically zero...so...if I understand correctly...the output level means that the sound card is sending more ''power'' or..more 'powerfull signal'' trying to make it more acurate? and this overloads the speakers? Like when you give more throtle in a car when its spining on ice? the car is trying to accelerate but nothing happens? Again I am an amature on these kind of stuff.As far for the solution...I searched the drivers very carefully I didnt see any specific choice for lowering the output level of the soundcard.But you can adjust the db leven on each chanel and of course as I have said the problem seems to dissapear when I am deducing foobars or yourubes volume to -3 or -5 db or in some extreme cases even more.So from the last comments can I assume that the output leven of my soundcard is very high from its nature and I have to deduce it in order to enjoy my soundcard in the fullest pottential?Again I cant really understand what is the ''high output of the soundcard'' so I just make assumptions...
steve_1979
Well-known member
"More powerfull signal" basically means the audio signal is coming out of the soundcard at a louder volume. This could be overloading the pre-amp section of your speakers.
Try turning the Windows master volume slider down to 80 or 90%. Hopefully that should fix the problem.
Try turning the Windows master volume slider down to 80 or 90%. Hopefully that should fix the problem.
So higher output means my soundcard its just outputs a louder signal? That makes sense! Turing down the volume on windows or in my music player is indeed solving the problem. I suppose it will remain a mystery that the problem is nto apear when I am palying a movie or most importantly a game (in games I think that the soundcard is producing quite an amound of sounds with the explosions and all)...and of course why that is not happening with all my music files but just with some of them.I would like to keep my volume to 100% becaouse I am using asio trying to keep the original file as close to the source..so for my undertanging when you lower the volume (digitaly) taking bits off the file.But if there is nothing else to try I will keep my volume to the 75% maby? I was going to buy new speakers and amp anyway (I even have another thread asking for oppinios in some combinations)so..maby this problem will go again with the new set of tools! Maby it doesent...either way I am still going to love my music hehe 
steve_1979
Well-known member
Don't worry about the digital volume control effecting the sound quality. A digital volume control does indeed use less bits to lower the volume but this doesn't effect the quality of the sounds you hear it just raises the noise floor. So long as the noise floor is still low enough to be inaudible then the sound will be exactly the same as far as your ears are concerned.
Leaving the master volume slider at 75% will be perfectly fine.
Leaving the master volume slider at 75% will be perfectly fine.
I think I have read somewhere that when you decrase the sound (digitaly) by -4 db you indeed decrease the bitdepth by 2 bits so when you are listening to a 16bit file and you do that you are actually get 14bits resolution.But I dont really know if that is true and of course I dont really know how that could effect the quality of the music I am listening.I have notice than when I am going 75% in foobar some bass and some dynamics are lost but yet again....maby it was too much in the begining! I dont really have much experience with lots of setus so I cant say,I am just trying to get the maximum out of my humble setup.As for the noise floor...my soundcard is listed as 120 snr if this is what you mean...I Guess thats a good number (my previous was listed as 114snr).Sometimes even without the clipping I am reducing the volume with some recodrings becaouse they sound to forward and too '''overloaded'' like they are strugling to be heared in a way...with some other recordings its just perfect and it becomes worst when I am lowering the volume...maby its about the file and the frequecnies of the songs...but in the end the problem is being solved when I am lowering the digital volume so it must be it. I guess further tests with different speakers,players,files and volume level are nessecery...but if I have to go by 75-80% volume...it would be ok too!
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