Explain pre & power V integrated please

[Gaz37]

Can anyone please explain, in nice simple terms, why a pre & power amp set up is considered better than an integrated amp?

My (very basic) understanding of amps is that the shorter the path that the signal has to travel the better the sound will be, if that is correct surely an integrated must be a shorter path than a two or three box pre - power set up?

I'm not doubting that it's better, I just want to understand why please

 

[Andrewjvt]

Can anyone please explain, in nice simple terms, why a pre & power amp set up is considered better than an integrated amp?

My (very basic) understanding of amps is that the shorter the path that the signal has to travel the better the sound will be, if that is correct surely an integrated must be a shorter path than a two or three box pre - power set up?

I'm not doubting that it's better, I just want to understand why please

?

 

Its to improve the sound quality by having seperate power supplys.

The pre amp only needs a small one and the power amp requires a larger one depending on the power output etc.

By having seperate units they can be designed just for one purpose: the pre amp to add voltage gain or volume and the power amp to supply voltage to the speakers and therefore can be optimised for purpose and be shorter path.

Many high end intergrated amps have 2 seperate power supplys anyway.

In buget kit i dont think there is that much difference.

I used to own a nad c270 power amp and a nad c160 pre and i compared it to the intergrated version and i could not (be it quick demo) hear any difference.

Another point to remember is if you want to upgrade its possibly better to have seperate boxes so for example you could keep your power amp and get a very good dac as a pre amp.

Hope this helps a bit

 

[davedotco]

Early hi-fi amplifiers had very sensitive inputs for record players and other inputs, tape, tuner etc matched the low interconnect voltage of the day. They also had big transformers, often quite crude devices, whose magnetic fields caused hum and other noise in sensitive input circuitry.

In addition to their control functionality, they took care of the first stages of amplification, outputing typically 1 to 1.5 volts to drive the power amplifier, less than most modern CD players.

In the US, the main forces driving amplifier design was the requirements of the cinema, multiple power amplifiers were required diven by a line distribution system. This was often transformer coupled so the standard sensitivity became 1 milliwatt, which is 1.23 volts into 600 ohms.

Thus when home hi-fi took off in the 1950s, the power amplifier designs already existed and were plentiful, so what was required was a pre-amp to adapt to the need of the home user and drive them. This set the standard in the US but the UK, without the benefit of the huge US pro market, typically used a lower voltage between pre and power.

When you factor in the size and weight of these components, it is easy to see why separate boxes were used. Even in the uk. it was routine right through the 80s for pre-power combinations to dominate the top of the range, good quality pre-amps, often with ultra high sensitivity moving coil phono inputs would have small, often external power supplies to keep these delicate circuits well clear of the massive, noise generating supplies in the power amps.

In the modern era with phono stages rare and often outboard anyway, there is little or no need for separate pre-amps, the gain isn't needed and the funtionality can be built in to the power amp and the cost saving is substantial. A few manufacturers maintan the multi-box approach but these days this is mainly tradition and marketing, the most popular and desirable hi-end amplifier today is an integrated design.

 

[chebby]

Be careful, it can lead to this kind of madness ...

Or this ...

 

[FennerMachine]

I was planning on doing the first pic with Cyrus kit.
CD player, pre amp, 4 power amps and 6 PSX-R's, 12 boxes.
Stopped at 5 boxes total then changed to a more simple and better sounding 3 box system, now just Blu-Ray player and integrated amp.
Lucky escape man, lucky escape.

 

[Al ears]

I was planning on doing the first pic with Cyrus kit. CD player, pre amp, 4 power amps and 6 PSX-R's, 12 boxes. Stopped at 5 boxes total then changed to a more simple and better sounding 3 box system, now just Blu-Ray player and integrated amp. Lucky escape man, lucky escape.

My kind of hell. Can you imagine trying to dust that lot.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Be careful, it can lead to this kind of madness ...

Or this ...

Many people are dumping all that for a Devialet (or two).

 

[Vladimir]

1) Power

2) Prestige

 

[Covenanter]

I was planning on doing the first pic with Cyrus kit. CD player, pre amp, 4 power amps and 6 PSX-R's, 12 boxes. Stopped at 5 boxes total then changed to a more simple and better sounding 3 box system, now just Blu-Ray player and integrated amp. Lucky escape man, lucky escape.

My kind of hell. Can you imagine trying to dust that lot.

Surely one's maid does the dusting!

Chris

 

[CnoEvil]

One advantage is that it allows you to mix and match eg. Valve Pre with SS Power.

 

[MajorFubar]

Cyrus's original solution of pre-amp* and power-amp in one box, but with an outboard PSX power supply for just the power amp, was an interesting alternative take on separate pre/power. On the face of it gave you the best of both worlds: short signal paths between the pre and the power, just like a normal integrated, but with a big power supply optimized just for the power-amp tucked away in a different box that connected to the Cyrus 2 with an XLR umbilical cord. These days, what with separate PSX-Rs available for just about everything, I believe they've lost sight of their original vision and they're just targeting rich enthusiasts who have an incurable case of Gear Aquisition Syndrome. Fully kitted-out with all the options it's serious money for what could easily run to a dozen boxes, and I'm convinced the same (or considerably less) money would easily buy you just basically a better system to start with.

*by this time the pre-amp was just the MM/MC phono board, source selectors and the volume pot.