Double OOOPs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gpi]

[quote user="Solomon1"]N**m amp has 50 watts per channel, costs 725. Entry level cd player costs 850. I'm pretty sure Ashley James has this brand in mind, see http://www.avihifi.co.uk/ 4th consumer's comment. Can't be coincidence.Please bear in mind that this isn't necessarily my own opinion.EDIT: Ashley James even suggests that an apple mini computer can sound better than an a***m cd92. Remains to be seen...interestanding standpoint for launching a heated debate...I'm actually beginning to understand why Ashley doesn't like to be on shows- with claims like these, you won't make many friends among collegues![/quote]

I'm not surprised by this as the Superdrives are very good in Macs. They are very good at writing CDs too and will error-correct extremely accurately. I have heard it said copies burnt on a computer can often sound better than the original CD.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Solomon1"][quote user="JAXON5"]oh And there are no hyperlinks here to anywhere at all.[/quote]
Just go to the avi website and scroll down on the home page...then read Avi Adm9 buyers' comments.
[/quote]

I just saw it!!!!!!!!! sorry it missed it last night. skim reading too fast!!! OK anyway that settles it., NxxM it is then.
Thanks Fr0g also - 'naimed it'. Gees i really should pay more attention!

 

[professorhat]

So can we put this down to the equivalent of Steve Jobs slagging off Microsoft and Steve Ballmer returning fire and go back to just trusting our eyes and ears?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="professorhat"]So can we put this down to the equivalent of Steve Jobs slagging off Microsoft and Steve Ballmer returning fire and go back to just trusting our eyes and ears?[/quote]

I think a balance is needed. A combination of technical and listening tests and a look at the insides as well.

Love the makeover BTW.

 

[professorhat]

Why thank you!

 

[Anonymous]

My cousin is an unusual combination of electronics audio engineer (hands on not desk boss), multi-instrument musician and recording producer/engineer.

His experience covers the past 35yrs and conversations with him on the hi-fi market hardware are eye opening. Lift the lid on any unit and he will know the source/quality/spec of the components.

Over the years he's built me one-off pre-amps, switching units and mixers. He comments often the case is the most expensive part and the components within can cost well under £5 for something that would retail in refined shops for £150+.

For decades his opinion of high end equipment is that often the components within are incapable of producing the results people believe they hear.

David

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="AltecLansing"]My cousin is an unusual combination of electronics audio engineer (hands on not desk boss), multi-instrument musician and recording producer/engineer.

His experience covers the past 35yrs and conversations with him on the hi-fi market hardware are eye opening. Lift the lid on any unit and he will know the source/quality/spec of the components.

Over the years he's built me one-off pre-amps, switching units and mixers. He comments often the case is the most expensive part and the components within can cost well under £5 for something that would retail in refined shops for £150+.

For decades his opinion of high end equipment is that often the components within are incapable of producing the results people believe they hear.

David[/quote]

Good post. I doubt that anyone can hear the difference between a well designed £500 amp and one of the same power costing ten times as much. Speakers yes, amps no.

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="Masterbluster"]I doubt that anyone can hear the difference between a well designed £500 amp and one of the same power costing ten times as much.[/quote]
I love that arrogance!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="professorhat"]I love that arrogance![/quote]

I'm just so butch at times.

 

[drummerman]

[quote user="Masterbluster"]
[quote user="AltecLansing"]My cousin is an unusual combination of electronics audio engineer (hands on not desk boss), multi-instrument musician and recording producer/engineer. His experience covers the past 35yrs and conversations with him on the hi-fi market hardware are eye opening. Lift the lid on any unit and he will know the source/quality/spec of the components. Over the years he's built me one-off pre-amps, switching units and mixers. He comments often the case is the most expensive part and the components within can cost well under £5 for something that would retail in refined shops for £150+. For decades his opinion of high end equipment is that often the components within are incapable of producing the results people believe they hear. David[/quote]

Good post. I doubt that anyone can hear the difference between a well designed £500 amp and one of the same power costing ten times as much. Speakers yes, amps no.

[/quote]

I disagree on that one, there's a huge quality difference between say a creek or nad and a copland/phonosophy etc of similar (or less) power. That's probably more to do with implementation rather than outright quality/price of components though naturally they tend to be better as well.

Where I do agree with you is in tuned versions of the same amplifier, probably an ideal test case for comparison. No better example than the KI versions of Marantzes (very) good amps and players. I personally would find it difficult to justify spending an extra &200 or so on the KI amp and find the basic version just as good and certainly better value for money.

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="Masterbluster"]
[quote user="professorhat"]I love that arrogance![/quote]

I'm just so butch at times.

[/quote]

You do realise I am a man?

And I don't actually look like a bald Kate Moss...

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="professorhat"]
You do realise I am a man?

And I don't actually look like a bald Kate Moss...

[/quote]

Ah. A transvestite.

 

[professorhat]

Indeed. Obviously any man who doesn't look like a bald Kate Moss is a transvestite.... Hang on a minute...

 

[Anonymous]

Of course, nothing wrong with a bald Kate Moss......

 

[professorhat]

I think I may change my pic... it's attracting the wrong sort of attention!

 

[Anonymous]

Can we just be clear that this has nothing to do with AVI sticking up for the consumer - merely part of their marketing campaign for their own new active speakers.

It thus makes sense for AVI to attack systems from Naim, Arcam only in the sense that these are competitive offerings.

I have no opinion on the AVI products good or bad. Though they do appear to be the type of company I'd prefer not to buy from

 

[Anonymous]

Totally misses the point but proves the power of their marketing !

Seriously, if you believe MF, AVI that something like the Naim Nait 5i integrated can't provide the basis for a decent system because its only 50 watts and is poor value at £750 then thats up to you.

My preference is for a properly set up Arcam or Naim system over my imac with (their) active speakers.

You may feel different and thats no problem but nobody here 'is just telling it like it is' - the guy has something to sell.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="andy444"]
Can we just be clear that this has nothing to do with AVI sticking up for the consumer - merely part of their marketing campaign for their own new active speakers.

It thus makes sense for AVI to attack systems from Naim, Arcam only in the sense that these are competitive offerings.

I have no opinion on the AVI products good or bad. Though they do appear to be the type of company I'd prefer not to buy from

[/quote]

Spot on, agree 100%

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="fr0g"][quote user="andy444"]
Can we just be clear that this has nothing to do with AVI sticking up for the consumer - merely part of their marketing campaign for their own new active speakers.

It thus makes sense for AVI to attack systems from Naim, Arcam only in the sense that these are competitive offerings.

I have no opinion on the AVI products good or bad. Though they do appear to be the type of company I'd prefer not to buy from

[/quote]

And I feel quite the reverse. A company that seems to sell its products at a realistic markup, and willing to tell it how it is, rather than taking the piddle out of consumers... and having £400 kettle leads in its books....

Well said that man, I just wish there were more like him.
[/quote]

hear hear! I dont say i like him or his confrontational stance but if i was a rival competitor on the receiving end of those comments the first thing i would do would be to refute them ( as far as i can tell they haven't), the second thing i'd do is po
As far as his comments regarding the wattage of amplifiers being underpowered to play modern musicc with its peaks and troughs he is not the only one saying that. Musical fidelity SWEAR by that. Of course they present evidence to prove it (clipping and so on). They, incidently make amplifiers and CDPs imo that are out of this world and i still think they are value for money even at 1500 GBP. if they can do it so can others. if you deceive and are not up to it u deserved to get exposed however cruel it may seem. (iMHO).

 

[Clare Newsome]

Don't hear AVI complaining about magazines when they get five-star reviews

But seriously, in between the industry bitching, he has a point re value - which is why all our reviews are on a performance-per-pound basis; the only magazine that bases all its tests on the value equation. It's not good enough for a pricey product to perform well - it has to justify its premium over cheaper kit.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="JAXON5"]I dont say i like him or his confrontational stance but if i was a rival competitor on the receiving end of those comments the first thing i would do would be to refute them ( as far as i can tell they haven't),[/quote]
Perhaps they don't feel like dignifying his strange marketing tactics with a response...

 

[Andrew Everard]

And I think you've just proved my point.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
Don't hear AVI complaining about magazines when they get five-star reviews

But seriously, in between the industry bitching, he has a point re value - which is why all our reviews are on a performance-per-pound basis; the only magazine that bases all its tests on the value equation. It's not good enough for a pricey product to perform well - it has to justify its premium over cheaper kit.
[/quote]

hi thanks for the reply Clare. i do take all this 'throwing the rattle out of the pram stuff' with a pinch of salt and like you say its just a matter of treating the consumer with some respect regarding the value for money issue. I personally don't mind paying a (hefty) premium if i feel i'm getting quality in return. Anyhow i still love and believe in HIFI as we all do ( im sure) and i guess as long as whoever is buying a product feels happy that's what matters.

Yes, even at 10W /channel - fr0g)

 

[Anonymous]

I am not suggesting a computer or CD source with the AVI speakers cannot amount to a decent hifi system, merely pointing out the self-interest in this guy having us believe his competitors are overcharging for traditional separates.

Similarly, MF have been in business for years but only decided to inform us of the limitations of using 'low' wattage amplifiers when they had their superchargers to sell. Still, hasnt stopped them from just launching a new 30w amp......

Additionally, the claims on the AVI website do little to establish the credibility of their offering. For example, they would have us believe an ipod shuffle is as good as any CD player. Well, the shuffle is well behind even my 3G 40GB ipod which, although good, is again some distance behind a Rega Saturn for example.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="andy444"]
I am not suggesting a computer or CD source with the AVI speakers cannot amount to a decent hifi system, merely pointing out the self-interest in this guy having us believe his competitors are overcharging for traditional separates.

Similarly, MF have been in business for years but only decided to inform us of the limitations of using 'low' wattage amplifiers when they had their superchargers to sell. Still, hasnt stopped them from just launching a new 30w amp......

Additionally, the claims on the AVI website do little to establish the credibility of their offering. For example, the ndould have us believe an ipod shuffle is as good as any CD player. Well, the shuffle is well behind even my 3G 40GB ipod which, although good, is again some distance behind a Rega Saturn for example.

[/quote]

I agree with you. Basically there's so much hyperbole around, quite frankly none of it can be taken too seriously. We all have brains so i assume we can see past the gimmicks and ad speak.

By the way folks can i just reiterate that i do not necessarily agree or disagree with Ashley James opinions. Pinch of salt like i said. (said whilst holding up the protective umbrella shielding him from very dangerous projectiles )