Does your 6th Gen 80/160 GB iPod Classic work with gapless tracks in Lossless format?

[admin_exported]

Hi everyone, I'm a WHF subscriber of many years, but 1st time poster.

I recently broke my 80 GB 5.5 Generation iPod that came out in September 2006 (replacing the 5th Generation 60 GB iPod that came out in October 2005) and I bought a 160 GB 6th Gen iPod Classic about 3 weeks ago to replace it.

(I should add at this point that I put off buying an iPod until the 5.5 Gen iPod came
out because it was the 1st one that supported gapless playback - I have
over a thousand CD's in my collection across a huge range of styles and
I'd estimate that 90% of my CD's contain at least some tracks where the
music continues across tracks, if not the entire album is continous).

Now, all my CD's are ripped in Apple Lossless format and they played
perfectly on my 5.5 Gen 80GB iPod, not even the slightest detectable
pause or gap between tracks or any other problems whatsoever. Loved it.

However, with the 6th Gen 160GB iPod Classic I just bought, there is a distinct 1 or 2 second pause between tracks. On top of this, the iPod pauses for 1 or 2 seconds at completely random places every 3 or 4 songs. I have tried everything to resolve the problems - resetting, restoring, re-ripping (although I dreaded this working and having to re-rip all CD's!), setting the 'part of a gapless album' option (although this is solely to prevent crossfading in iTunes) and nothing worked. Naturally, I now assumed there is a fault ith this particular iPod I had bought.

Out of curiousity, I converted one of my Lossless albums to MP3 and AAC. The music will now play flawlessly without any random pauses and without even the slightest pause between tracks.

I found this a bit strange so I started to research the problem on the internet. It would seem I'm not alone and there are literally hundreds of people reporting the same problem on both the 80 & 160 GB 6th Gen iPod Classic that only occurrs with Lossless files.

Even Apple's own discussion boards (http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=204) are littered with people asking for help with the problem for the entire last year and it has never been resolved. iPod's have repeatedly been exchanged only for the new one's to have the same problem and the problem is constantly reported to Apple.

Further internet research on the problem all leads to one culprit and that is that the RAM on this iPod was halved from the 5.5 Gen iPod, from 64MB to 32MB and that the buffer is now inadequate for the playback of Lossless files.

I have spoken to Apple every day for the last 4 days, my call being escalated each day until finally getting a response from the engineering team today saying they have never heard of such a fault before, nothing had been reported to them and it must just be my iPod. Up until this point I thought Apple's Customer Care Team were great; they were polite, friendly and called me back every day, but saying nothing had been reported was just a lie as far as I'm concerned. According to their own forum people had been reporting this via their own online feedback service for over a year.

Well I've swapped my 160 GB iPod once, it had the same problem and I've now sent off for a refund and plan on getting my 80 GB 5.5 Gen iPod repaired. I just wish I'd done that in the 1st placed and saved all this hassle...heh

Now, I'm not pretending to know for definite that the reduction in RAM is the cause of the problem, but this would explain why there hasn't been software update with a bug fix and why there are hundreds of people all over the internet that have this problem with this Generation of iPod when using Lossless files and I can't find one report from someone with either a solution or simply being able to say, 'my iPod was replaced and this one doesn't have the problem'. It would also explain the horrendous lag of literally seconds when navigating through menus during playback whereas my 5.5 Gen iPod responded instantaneously.

If this is a hardware problem, then presumably the 160 GB the WHF Team used for review last year would have had this problem - (but it wouldn't have been noticed if a gapless album hadn't been tested). I'd just be curious to know whether the test model is to hand to try this out or if anybody else here has had this problem or even more importantly, if anybody has a 160 GB 6th Gen iPod Classic that will play gapless albums in Lossless format without pausing?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks!

James

p.s. Sorry for the long ramble!

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Hang on, I've got a 160 I bought in May - I'll check.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Nope, I played Beatles Love, ripped in lossless and it transitioned perfectly with no gaps - that's certainly an odd one...

Saying that, I have experienced the pausing at random times, but only when connected via the dock connector - never headphones.

 

[Anonymous]

fatboyslimfast:Nope, I played Beatles Love, ripped in lossless and it transitioned perfectly with no gaps - that's certainly an odd one...

Saying that, I have experienced the pausing at random times, but only when connected via the dock connector - never headphones.

Thanks for trying it out, I appreciate it. You're the first person I've found that doesn't have problem with transitions with Lossless files. Which iPod do you have, 80 or 160GB? I'm meeting up with a friend tomorrow who has the 160GB and we're gonna test it on his. He uses MP3 format so it's never been a problem for him, but I'm curious to see if transitions will work with Lossless files on his.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Hiya, it's a 160Gb...

 

[fatboyslimfast]

I'll see if I can find two big tracks to transition between - the beatles tracks are only a couple of minutes each - maybe that could be the trouble..

 

[Anonymous]

I have a 160gb classic and have no gapless playback problems whatsoever. All my music is in apple lossless.

 

[Anonymous]

fatboyslimfast:I'll see if I can find two big tracks to transition between - the beatles tracks are only a couple of minutes each - maybe that could be the trouble..

Thanks, that'd be great and you've just reminded me - I have some albums which have short interlude/song intro tracks, like 5-20 seconds and there was no pause at all going from one of the short tracks to a long track, but going from a long track to a short triggered the annoying pause.

Also, and this was really weird - when I was trying to solve the problem I discovered that if I played the tracks on the iPod via iTunes, i.e. the iPod is plugged into the computer and you select it under 'my devices' and play the tracks actually on the iPod from there (not the iTunes library on the computer) then I had no problems whatsoever with any tracks. Everything played seamlessly.

Both of these points made me think people were onto something with a buffer/memory underrun - like you point out, it might be able to handle a shorter track but underrun with like five minute songs and playing perfectly ok when plugged into iTunes made me think it was buffering in the computer. Purely guesswork though of course.

Thanks again for you help.

 

[Anonymous]

Strodo:I have a 160gb classic and have no gapless playback problems whatsoever. All my music is in apple lossless.

Thanks Strodo! I'm glad to hear some people aren't having problems.

 

[Anonymous]

snubnog:
fatboyslimfast:I'll see if I can find two big tracks to transition between - the beatles tracks are only a couple of minutes each - maybe that could be the trouble..

Thanks, that'd be great and you've just reminded me - I have some albums which have short interlude/song intro tracks, like 5-20 seconds and there was no pause at all going from one of the short tracks to a long track, but going from a long track to a short triggered the annoying pause.

Also, and this was really weird - when I was trying to solve the problem I discovered that if I played the tracks on the iPod via iTunes, i.e. the iPod is plugged into the computer and you select it under 'my devices' and play the tracks actually on the iPod from there (not the iTunes library on the computer) then I had no problems whatsoever with any tracks. Everything played seamlessly.

Both of these points made me think people were onto something with a buffer/memory underrun - like you point out, it might be able to handle a shorter track but underrun with like five minute songs and playing perfectly ok when plugged into iTunes made me think it was buffering in the computer. Purely guesswork though of course.

Thanks again for you help.

It's just occurred to me after what you said about running times fatboyslimfast, that it could be the actual file size - due to the fact that the bitrate varies in Lossless depending on the complexity of the track, two tracks of equal length will have different bitrates and file size, e.g Tracks 4 & 5 on one of my albums are 3:35 and 3:36 but the Lossless bitrates are 931 kbps and 1043 kpbs which results in file sizes of 24.3 MB and 27.3 MB. Also, the size of the Artwork file contributes to the file size of the size and will vary across different albums (but that isn't really relevant I suppose for playing tracks consecutively on the same album).

Now, if what I've read about people claiming that the iPod's memory was reduced to 32MB is correct, then that might be a good guide for where the problem is occuring. I've just had a look at the file sizes of the albums I was having trouble with and all of them are over 32MB, the smallest being 37.5MB.Unfortunately I never tested it with anything under 32MB, other than those 10 second sound bites, but I wasn't conscious of what was happening there till now. I'd have liked to have nailed the exact file size that I started getting problems.

So going back to what you said, a song of roughly 5 minutes or more should give you a file bigger than 32MB.

I'm really kicking myself now 'cos I can't test it out now I've sent mine back and I've not seen my friend with the 160GB iPod today afterall and won't see him till next Weekend now.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

hold fire and I'll try and find some longer tracks. Listened to a couple of 4.50ish songs and they were ok...

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Burger. You're right.

Two 6mins songs back to back (Patrol by Steve Martland - ripped in lossless direct from original CD) and there was a short pause (I would say no more than 1/4s though).

Looks like they might have hit the nail full on with the buffer thing. Anyone know if the new 120 has the same size buffer?

Maybe for those albums where it annoys, you could rip in 320kpbs AAC - the difference between that and lossless audio quality is (while there) pretty small.

TBH, for the convenience and capacity the classic gives me, I can overlook it. I generally only use it in portable/car scenarios, and the odd little gap I can forgive.

But to conclude - yes, with big tracks there is a small gap that I can see could be annoying...

Boo Hiss....

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to be annoying but again this does not affect my iPod.

I have a number of long track gapless cd's ripped in apple lossless, e.g. 'war of the worlds' and they play perfectly with no pause between tracks at all.

If it helps with your investigation my iPod is from USA

 

[jimdonnelly]

I have a 160GB Classic. I remember making a selection somewhere in itunes regarding gaps bewteen tracks? I think there may be some format that can be changed regarding gaps (and the length of). I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Anonymous]

fatboyslimfast:Burger. You're right.

Two 6mins songs back to back (Patrol by Steve Martland - ripped in lossless direct from original CD) and there was a short pause (I would say no more than 1/4s though).

Looks like they might have hit the nail full on with the buffer thing. Anyone know if the new 120 has the same size buffer?

Maybe for those albums where it annoys, you could rip in 320kpbs AAC - the difference between that and lossless audio quality is (while there) pretty small.

TBH, for the convenience and capacity the classic gives me, I can overlook it. I generally only use it in portable/car scenarios, and the odd little gap I can forgive.

But to conclude - yes, with big tracks there is a small gap that I can see could be annoying...

Boo Hiss....

Thanks again for checking that out for me fatboyslimfast, I was beginning to feel like I was going mad. I just got a text from my friend this evening saying he's ripped Red Hot Chili Peppers' Blood Sugar Sex Magic in Lossless and he's got gaps too and it's most noticeable just before Give It Away, which is where they actually count the song in at the end of Righteous and the Wicked, so it goes 1-2-3-4 and then it pauses...heh.

It was just sod's law that I put a handful of my fave albums on first and they were all gapless with long tracks and so were all affected...it drove me mad...heh

But yeah, that's a good suggestion if people only have a handful of long gapless tracks to rip them in 320 kbps AAC. I'm still trying to find out about the 120GB iPod memory. I've asked that exact question over at the apple.com forum but I've been ignored so far...heh...I'll bump it up...

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Anonymous]

Strodo:Sorry to be annoying but again this does not affect my iPod.

I have a number of long track gapless cd's ripped in apple lossless, e.g. 'war of the worlds' and they play perfectly with no pause between tracks at all.

If it helps with your investigation my iPod is from USA

It's not annoying Strodo, I appreciate your feedback. I've seen the 160GB Classic listed as 32MB RAM on some tech sites and 64MB RAM on others, so you could be onto something there. My iPod was a UK model, so that could be the difference.

 

[Anonymous]

jimdonnelly:I have a 160GB Classic. I remember making a selection somewhere in itunes regarding gaps bewteen tracks? I think there may be some format that can be changed regarding gaps (and the length of). I'll see if I can find it.

If you bring up the track info and select the option tab, you can select 'part of a gapless album'. Unfortunately this is purely to prevent crossfading in iTunes (if you have chosen to crossfade tracks with the crossfade button). Crossfade is only availble in iTunes and not on iPod's so unfortunately this doesn't affect iPod playback of tracks. But to be on the safe, I did test it with and without this selected and it made no difference. There's an Apple Doc that explains it a bit more clearly:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1797?viewlocale=en_US

"iPod does not support crossfade playback and only some iPod models
support gapless playback. For those models that do, all files that
support gapless playback are played gaplessly whether or not the "Part
of a gapless album" option is checked."

I think that's what you're talking about?