Do We Need High End HiFi for Good Sound? - Re Upgrades

[ned]

Hi there all. Ok my old set up which I loved but wanted to improve in terms of tighter bass and more dynamics as well as maybe more valve like treble/midrange:

At33ptg II

Nottingham Ace Space Deck

Pro-ject MM/MC phono preamp (£80 cheap tiny box)

JVC A-X01 amp

QED original cables

Cambridge Audio Azure Hi-Def phono interconnect (silver coated)(hasn't been beaten by any cables under £100 so far and I've had a few)

Wharfedale diamond 10.1 speakers

The sound was great but I only listen at low level. I rarely blast it and if I do as long as we can dance to it I'm not bothered, it is most important for it to sound good at low level critical listening levels similar to conversation volume. Is this why I don't need amazing kit to get good sound??

I have always wanted a Sugden a21a as my dad has one and I always liked it so this was my upgrade. This resulted is such rounded off treble I thought the amp must be faulty. Combined with the speakers it was way too smooth. Basically agree with all a21 reviews. But no presence at all with this combo. Very high midrange. So I upgraded my phono pre amp to a Rega Fono MC which supposedly has slightly scooped mids. Well that is even worse in terms of treble!

So laid back it is horizontal until something happens in the upper midrange and then it shouts it at unreasonable volume compared to the rest. Probably due to lack of treble making me turn up the volume higher.

Anyway I couldn't afford proac 1sc so tried some proac studio 115's that fixed it but went too far and harsh at times so sold them pretty quickly and enjoyed the great bass of the wharfedales again but cannot get away with the subdued treble.

I have used other sources like streaming and it is all the same problem.

Therefore my title question and: Is this normal to find low level listening problematic or do I have to buy very expensive perfectly neutral speakers for hi end hifi to work? (By the way I don't use the tone controls or loudness on the JVC)

I'm thinking maybe the synergy of my old system balanced out to be perfect but introducing perfectly neutral/natural equipment is sending it all off.

I would like to get away from depending on an old cheap amp but I have tried a lot of amps now and it has always won out. What's going on??!

Is all this because we really need a smiley face Freq response for volumes around conversation level?

Re high end hifi, I assume all the "current capacity", "damping" and "difficult speaker loads" all really just apply to very loud listening and does not come in at low level listening.

 

[Al ears]

Don't understand your last sentence, all of these things will exist whatever the volume level.

 

[gasolin]

That is easy to understand, he think all newer high end amps, that the "current capacity", "damping" and "difficult speaker loads" all really just apply to very loud listening and does not come in at low level listening.

Based on what else he is saying i feel that he think it's the oppesite with older high end amps,speakers

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I would like to get away from depending on an old cheap amp but I have tried a lot of amps now and it has always won out. What's going on??!

You prefer it's sound, which could be in part because you have had a long time to grow accustomed to it. A higher budget should allow options that are 'better' (in terms of absolute fidelity) if you choose well, but that's not the same as 'sounding better to your ears' The latter is all that matters.

 

[gasolin]

We need high end to get most out of the songs we play,listen to (details and musicality)

We need highend to be able to play loud and at the same time deep bass, not just something like big cerwin vega speakers, so we can experince alot of dynamics without sacrificing bass.

We don't need high that is insanly analytic that doesn't make it musical,fun to listen to music

We dont'r need high that is extremly difficult to sound at it's best

 

[ned]

Don't understand your last sentence, all of these things will exist whatever the volume level.

I am getting at the fact 'better' amps perform better but all these parameters mainly just let the amp sing at loud volume. For instance if an amp can't drive a speaker with enough current etc. into the speaker load at quiet volumes then it would surely just completely die at a higher volume. I am just thinking all these qualities apply so slightly at low volume it must be indistinguishable. ...it is just one part of me wondering why might an old JVC be favourable to me over a sugden a21a.

 

[ned]

That is easy to understand, he think all newer high end amps, that the "current capacity", "damping" and "difficult speaker loads" all really just apply to very loud listening and does not come in at low level listening.

Based on what else he is saying i feel that he think it's the oppesite with older high end amps,speakers

It's not about new or old or expensive or cheap really, just all the parameters that make an amp expensive generally maybe is to make them perform better when played rather loud. Maybe when listening at lower level maybe it is just down to getting a set up that aids the Fletcher-Munson Loudess Effect and simply a voicing that is pleasing; none of which really cost more than an average hifi equipment cost.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I am getting at the fact 'better' amps perform better but all these parameters mainly just let the amp sing at loud volume.

I think they give an amp the necessary headroom for high volumes, but my experience is that what sounds better to me sounds better independent of volume.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi there all. Ok my old set up which I loved but wanted to improve in terms of tighter bass and more dynamics as well as maybe more valve like treble/midrange:

At33ptg II

Nottingham Ace Space Deck

Pro-ject MM/MC phono preamp (£80 cheap tiny box)

JVC A-X01 amp

QED original cables

Cambridge Audio Azure Hi-Def phono interconnect (silver coated)(hasn't been beaten by any cables under £100 so far and I've had a few)

Wharfedale diamond 10.1 speakers

The sound was great but I only listen at low level. I rarely blast it and if I do as long as we can dance to it I'm not bothered, it is most important for it to sound good at low level critical listening levels similar to conversation volume. Is this why I don't need amazing kit to get good sound??

I have always wanted a Sugden a21a as my dad has one and I always liked it so this was my upgrade. This resulted is such rounded off treble I thought the amp must be faulty. Combined with the speakers it was way too smooth. Basically agree with all a21 reviews. But no presence at all with this combo. Very high midrange. So I upgraded my phono pre amp to a Rega Fono MC which supposedly has slightly scooped mids. Well that is even worse in terms of treble!

So laid back it is horizontal until something happens in the upper midrange and then it shouts it at unreasonable volume compared to the rest. Probably due to lack of treble making me turn up the volume higher.

Anyway I couldn't afford proac 1sc so tried some proac studio 115's that fixed it but went too far and harsh at times so sold them pretty quickly and enjoyed the great bass of the wharfedales again but cannot get away with the subdued treble.

I have used other sources like streaming and it is all the same problem.

Therefore my title question and: Is this normal to find low level listening problematic or do I have to buy very expensive perfectly neutral speakers for hi end hifi to work? (By the way I don't use the tone controls or loudness on the JVC)

I'm thinking maybe the synergy of my old system balanced out to be perfect but introducing perfectly neutral/natural equipment is sending it all off.

I would like to get away from depending on an old cheap amp but I have tried a lot of amps now and it has always won out. What's going on??!

Is all this because we really need a smiley face Freq response for volumes around conversation level?

Re high end hifi, I assume all the "current capacity", "damping" and "difficult speaker loads" all really just apply to very loud listening and does not come in at low level listening.

In a nutshell, no is the answer. You don't need to spend thousands, just need to find the right mix of equipment.

Your current bundles seem to be a mish mash of vintage and more up to date stuff.

I've said this on here since the beginning of time (or feels like it). If you want taut bass with no top end roll off and exciting but natural on a budget, look no further than a Leema Pulse 1st gen version. It should tick every box for you.

And they can be picked for around £400-600. They have a very good switchable built-in phono stage, 4 line level inputs and output for either a power amp or to connect a sub.

I've had mine since 2010 and it still thrills, entertains and makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Quite simply it's one of the best integrated you can buy without going to the bank & getting a mortgage.

People have laughed at me and will continue to laugh. The proof of the pudding (Christmas pun intended) is in the eating

 

[ned]

I think they give an amp the necessary headroom for high volumes, but my experience is that what sounds better to me sounds better independent of volume.

I agree. But all the forum talk about current delivery etc. really I think just enables the sound you like to go louder, that's all. I love my JVC but it's character does change as it gets to silly volume levels, especially with low impedance speakers but it all is irrelevant really, I just need to find a more modern amp before my old one fails, suppose I could buy another of the same for £50!
Maybe I'll look up the Leema that Plastic Penguin mentioned, and sell the sugden, I had wanted that amp for about 20yrs though

 

[plastic penguin]

I agree. But all the forum talk about current delivery etc. really I think just enables the sound you like to go louder, that's all. I love my JVC but it's character does change as it gets to silly volume levels, especially with low impedance speakers but it all is irrelevant really, I just need to find a more modern amp before my old one fails, suppose I could buy another of the same for £50!
Maybe I'll look up the Leema that Plastic Penguin mentioned, and sell the sugden, I had wanted that amp for about 20yrs though

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Pulse is better than the Sugden. At roughly double the new price of the Pulse, it shouldn't. But it should have more of the sonic traits you're looking for.