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Do all speakers suffer from port noise?

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MajorFubar

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Mar 3, 2010
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lindsayt said:
Dave how many frequency spectrum charts do I need to post on this forum before you stop saying that there's not much going on at 30hz to 60hz in most music?

Here's a frequency spectrum chart of Suzanne Vega's Solitude Standing, vinyl version.



It's a 27 year old recording with more going on at 30 to 60 hz than at any frequency above 520 hz.

Where did you get the notion from that there's not much going on at 30 to 60hz with most music?
Lol from an LP most of that will be bloody rumble.
 

lindsayt

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Apr 8, 2011
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Andyjm, no I don't have a plot of the CD version. There's nothing to stop anyone importing CD versions into Audacity to check if it is some vinyl based anomaly or if there really is a lot going at 30 to 60 hz on this track and a variety of other tracks.
 

lindsayt

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Vladimir, for sure, due to the limitations of vinyl there is a convention to place drums and bass guitars in the centre of the soundstage. A convention that has carried on for digital recordings and CD's. Placing these intruments in the centre is as good a place as any.

As for it being "plodding monobass". Well these frequencies might sound plodding on your system and many other systems, but the deep bass on Solitude Standing does not sound plodding on a system with good bass reproduction.
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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andyjm said:
lindsayt said:
Dave how many frequency spectrum charts do I need to post on this forum before you stop saying that there's not much going on at 30hz to 60hz in most music?

Here's a frequency spectrum chart of Suzanne Vega's Solitude Standing, vinyl version.



It's a 27 year old recording with more going on at 30 to 60 hz than at any frequency above 520 hz.

Where did you get the notion from that there's not much going on at 30 to 60hz with most music?
Hmmn. Do you have an equivalent plot of the CD?

One of the problems with RIAA pre-emph / de-emph is the tendency to boost all LF noise, be it bearing rumble, vinyl surface noise, or LF feedback from the speakers.

It is possible that your plot has more to do with the limitations of vinyl than then frequency content of the original recording.
Shhhhhh. Can't say that.

I would love to know what instruments are producing all that sub bass, particularly on vintage recordings made for vinyl. Interesting to see how they get onto the record too, given the usual limitations of bandwidth against playing time.

What is more important I think is the increased levels of deep bass that are becoming quite common on some digital recordings. Given the limitations of most mass market playback systems I do wonder why it has been done.

We have discussed the issues of cone 'flap' on vinyl based systems before, along with the near disappearance of rumble filters and the near ubiquity of ported speakers.

It appears that, with the current fascination with deep bass, these problems are re-appearing, it is going to be a problem for some people.
 

steve_1979

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Jul 14, 2010
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Mohsin said:
Thanks for your reply. I am very happy with these speakers and had extensively tried them. As I mention it's only now that I've managed to find a track that shows there short comings. I have tried bi wiring but couldn't hear any difference.

Mo
Which track are you reffering to?

I never noticed any chuffing from my speakers so I'd like to give it a try.
 

Vladimir

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Dec 26, 2013
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My system aside, I'm saying in general terms bass under 80Hz does not have the richness and timbre of the next 100Hz above it, and less acoustic detail. In that sense I may have used wrong term 'plodding monobass'. I'm sure you understand what I meant to say.

One can live without 60Hz and down but not without 80Hz-300Hz. However, this doesn't mean low bass is a meaningless segment. It is the one part of the music you don't listen with your ears as much as you feel it with your whole body. It is enveloping, ambiental, gives sense of drama and power. More classical orchestral music lives here than rock or metal, especially the Bosendorfer piano diving down to 28Hz.

It's great to have full spectrum but it is extremely hard to produce the lowest frequencies right in our rooms, even in dedicated listening rooms with acoustic treatments. Those waves are huge and many room modes occur, they are not easy to tame.
 

lindsayt

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Apr 8, 2011
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MajorFubar said:
Lol from an LP most of that will be bloody rumble.
Lol, I don't think so. This frequency spectrum was made by an EMT 950 feeding a PC's built-in soundcard.

Tell you what, Solitude Standing is the first track on that side of the LP. There's a few seconds of run in groove noise on my needledrop. Would you like me to cut and paste this section into a new Audacity file and show you a frequency spectrum chart for that? Then we can look at the -db figures on the vertical scale to determine how much rumble / vinyl roar / amplification / sound card noise we're getting?

30hz on my frequency spectrum shown above is at -22dbs. if what you say is true about rumble, our run in groove will show 30 hz as being at -23 to -30 dbs. If the run in groove shows this frequency as below -50dbs then it's fair to say that you are totally wrong in your assertion about rumble. It would be fair to say that rumble / vinyl roar / amp-sound card noise are having a neglible effect on these frequency spectrum charts.

So, Major Fubar, what do you think will be the highest -db figure (at any frequency) on my run-in groove frequency spectrum? -23 dbs? -30dbs? -40dbs? -50dbs? -60dbs? -70dbs?
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
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This chart may throw some light on the subject of what is contained in the lower frequencies :)

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/images/main_chart.jpg
 

Zax89swe

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Apr 19, 2011
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Even dali zensor 7 and wharedale 155 floorstanders suffer from these shuffing noise at higher volymes at many low frequencies, I have now Jbl studio 290 and the noise is almost non existance.
 

Electro

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Mar 30, 2011
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Zax89swe said:
Even dali zensor 7 and wharedale 155 floorstanders suffer from these shuffing noise at higher volymes at many low frequencies, I have now Jbl studio 290 and the noise is almost non existance.
This may be why :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIc2ORiDxrE
 

unsleepable

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Dec 25, 2013
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Mohsin said:
The track I am referring to is from Flo-rida's album Roots. It's track no 4 (Shone) and there is a big bass drop from about 3:20. If anyone has spotify or access to this track while I understand it may not be your type of music but give it a go to see how your speakers behave.
I can't find this track in Spotify. Do you have a link?
 

MajorFubar

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Mar 3, 2010
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lindsayt said:
So, Major Fubar, what do you think will be the highest -db figure (at any frequency) on my run-in groove frequency spectrum? -23 dbs? -30dbs? -40dbs? -50dbs? -60dbs? -70dbs?
Lol No idea tbh I was having a bit of a pishtake while passing the time waiting for SWMBO to ger her arris out the lav and run me and the kids to work and school. It wasn't intended to be a serious rubbishing of your graph. But now you mention it, what you've suggested about comparing that to a portion of unmodulated groove at the beginning of the same LP would be an interesting comparison. As you probably know, on vinyl records, deep bass frequencies were often curtailed with a steep EQ or even cut off completely with a high-pass filter, especially when the playing time exceeded about 20 mins per side. One of the reasons they introduced EQ curves like the predominant RIAA curve is because bass was both difficult to cut and hard for playback equipment to track.
 

Mohsin

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Jul 26, 2008
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http://open.spotify.com/track/0xwWgANkivEPqyPBiYXbzi

That's the track I am referring to. The bass drop comes in at just after 3:40 I think Vladimir posted the link to a different track on the same album.

Mo
 

unsleepable

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Dec 25, 2013
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I can't open the track in my Spotify. Since music rights vary from country to country, it's probably not licensed for my account.

I'll see later if I find it iTunes or something.
 

steve_1979

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Jul 14, 2010
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Mohsin said:
http://open.spotify.com/track/0xwWgANkivEPqyPBiYXbzi

That's the track I am referring to. The bass drop comes in at just after 3:40 I think Vladimir posted the link to a different track on the same album.

Mo
I've just tried it at high volume on my Neutron Five's (with the 10" subwoofer turned off) and the port chuffing is just about audiable if I put my ear right up to the port. From more than a few inches away it's unoticable though.

That's some phat bass line on that track! 8)
 

Overdose

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Feb 8, 2008
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lindsayt said:
It's a 27 year old recording with more going on at 30 to 60 hz than at any frequency above 520 hz.

Where did you get the notion from that there's not much going on at 30 to 60hz with most music?
Where did you get the notion that this single 27 year old track represents 'most' music?
 

lindsayt

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Apr 8, 2011
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How many charts would you like me to post Overdose, before you concede that I'm right on this when I say that most rock and pop recordings have a lot of deep bass content?

You are, of course welcome to post a few frequency spectrum charts yourself Overdose.
 

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