Disappointing CES for TVs

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maxflinn:i think plasmas peaked with the 9th gen kuros, at least in terms of pic quality

No. Pioneer was working on a 10th generation Kuro using a new picture processing technology (codenamed Fuga) a prototype of which was demonstrated at Pioneer HQ in Kawasaki, Japan. People who were invited were stunned by its performance. It was significantly superior to the already stunning 9th generation.

Just google "Pioneer Fuga".

This was discussed in a few forums, & many thought that the 10th generation Kuro would've been the perfect plasma (although, knowing the abilities of Pioneer's engineers, I don't think they have the word 'perfect' in their dictionary!).

I just wish that the current manufacturers offered significant improvements with every generation rather than a few tweaks here and there......maybe that's why Pioneer isn't making TVs anymore whereas the others are...
 
v1c:Yes but now there is a name for it "Ultra Definition" sounds better than 4K2K.

Strictly speaking that's just what LG are calling it, for now
emotion-5.gif
 
I still cant understand, out of all the tv manufacturers, not 1 has been able to match the Kuro.

Very strange.
 
canada16:Tom Moreno:Clare Newsome:

Sometimes a simple tweak in spec is enough to make a product stand out from the crowd...

Panasonic Plasmas that can correctly handle motion at 50Hz springs to mind...

I cant belive you went there.......... OH YES HE DID !!!

I watch a lot of football and if it weren't for the problems that plague the Panny plasmas I would have bought a 50vt20 this year. These sets are stunning when watching blu-ray (the other 50% of my viewing). So even if the new VT30's are exactly the same, but with the 50Hz sorted...
 
canada16:
I still cant understand, out of all the tv manufacturers, not 1 has been able to match the Kuro.

Very strange.

In some areas they've surpassed it - detail resolution, for example.
 
bigboss:
maxflinn:i think plasmas peaked with the 9th gen kuros, at least in terms of pic quality

No. Pioneer was working on a 10th generation Kuro using a new picture processing technology (codenamed Fuga) a prototype of which was demonstrated at Pioneer HQ in Kawasaki, Japan. People who were invited were stunned by its performance. It was significantly superior to the already stunning 9th generation.

Just google "Pioneer Fuga".

This was discussed in a few forums, & many thought that the 10th generation Kuro would've been the perfect plasma (although, knowing the abilities of Pioneer's engineers, I don't think they have the word 'perfect' in their dictionary!).

I just wish that the current manufacturers offered significant improvements with every generation rather than a few tweaks here and there......maybe that's why Pioneer isn't making TVs anymore whereas the others are...

hmmm, very interesting bb, i hadn't heard about this
emotion-21.gif
....

i wonder will we be graced with a panasonic fuga
emotion-4.gif
..

i doubt it
emotion-8.gif
 
Andrew Everard:Doubtful, as there's no suggestion that Panasonic acquired any of Pioneer's IP for TV.
yea i don't see panasonic making a tv that clearly beats the kuro, they should match it in all areas this year though, hopefully with no niggling issues...
 
maxflinn: i wonder will we be graced with a panasonic fuga
emotion-4.gif
..

Actually, for the 10th generation Pioneer Kuros (Fuga), the plasma screens were to be supplied by Panasonic!
emotion-5.gif


Obviously, there's a lot more to a TV than just the screen. The current pressures on pricing (which caused the demise of the Kuro) will prevent Panasonic from looking into this technology just as yet, even if it may have acquired the patents.
 
I think things are getting a little lost in the mists of time here.

The Fuga project was at prototype stage, with no guarantee that all/any of the technology involved would end up in 10th gen Kuro.

Many, many manufacturers show engineering concepts that simply aren't feasible as production units.

I was fortunate enough to see some of what the Pioneer engineers had worked on, and it was truly stunning (especially in regards to contrast) - but no more so than today's actually on-sale OLED sets. And with a 55in OLED set due next year from LG.... let's look to the future, not fantastise about products that never were.
 
emotion-2.gif


I was thinking more along the lines of concept cars - beautiful to look at, but impractical to build for a mass market.
 
Clare Newsome:
v1c:Yes but now there is a name for it "Ultra Definition" sounds better than 4K2K.

Strictly speaking that's just what LG are calling it, for now
emotion-5.gif


Their marketing boys or girls have got it right then because i want an ultra definition TV.
 
Clare Newsome:
Ah, I see.

I saw some very promising new sets; yes, nothing revolutionary, but then 2010 had some exceptional TVs on offer. I'll reserve judgement on how far 2011's crop have progressed in terms of performance when we get them in our test rooms and compare them side by side with their predecessors. Sometimes a simple tweak in spec is enough to make a product stand out from the crowd...

And going back to 3D. LG's decision is informed by a vast amount of consumer research it's done (and the fact that many of the arguments the active-shutter brigade are making re resolution are rendered moot by the majorty of 3D content being availble via TV rather than Blu-ray).

I like the look of the new Samsung LED D8000. Can you please let me know how picture quality looked if you have seen it. And what was the best LED on display in your opinion?
 
Andrew Everard:OMG he's off on his reflective/non-reflective screen thing again. Nurse, the (non-reflective) screens, please...

Problem is no one is paying attention - now Panasonic thinks its ok, and have completely removed any antiglare on the new VT30. Only by professional sites complaining and commenting, can we send a signal to the manufacturers that mirror-glossy and glossy front screens does not belong on a TV set.

Panasonic VT30 night-only TV
 
pppp1:Clare Newsome:
Ah, I see.

I saw some very promising new sets; yes, nothing revolutionary, but then 2010 had some exceptional TVs on offer. I'll reserve judgement on how far 2011's crop have progressed in terms of performance when we get them in our test rooms and compare them side by side with their predecessors. Sometimes a simple tweak in spec is enough to make a product stand out from the crowd...

And going back to 3D. LG's decision is informed by a vast amount of consumer research it's done (and the fact that many of the arguments the active-shutter brigade are making re resolution are rendered moot by the majorty of 3D content being availble via TV rather than Blu-ray).

I like the look of the new Samsung LED D8000. Can you please let me know how picture quality looked if you have seen it. And what was the best LED on display in your opinion?

The Samsung looked gorgeous - but then it's hard to find a TV set at a show that doesn't, as they've been tweaked within an inch of their lives and are typically only displaying optimised, flattering content.

Lots of new LED-backlit TVs from a wide range of companies; it'll take a good few Group Tests until we know who's moved that technology on this year.
 
PeterHerz:
Andrew Everard:OMG he's off on his reflective/non-reflective screen thing again. Nurse, the (non-reflective) screens, please...

Problem is no one is paying attention - now Panasonic thinks its ok, and have completely removed any antiglare on the new VT30. Only by professional sites complaining and commenting, can we send a signal to the manufacturers that mirror-glossy and glossy front screens does not belong on a TV set.

Panasonic VT30 night-only TV

I don't often watch television at that angle.
 
As a proud owner of a Fujitsu 50" 58 Series Plasma, regarded by most manufacturers (though not magazines) as the best plasma of that year (Arcam, Denon, Onkyo etc used them to show off their DVD/Bluray decks at a number of shows), I share your frustration!

The TV market has decended into mass-market farce, pushing new (unfinished) technologies, rather than refining existing technologies.

3D is a niche product for true AV enthusiasts, Web/iPlayer integration is cobbled into tvs at best, and sadly no one (bar Panasonic with their Custom Install panels) seems brave enough to launch a model that focuses purely on picture quality rather than turning the tv in to a (2nd rate!) computer.

I think we'll be waiting a long time for a performance improvement to ours sets......

Hopefully OLED will be our savour, as companies insistence on making LED-lit LCD panels, for cost reasons, is annoying.

Heck LCD technology wasn't even designed for moving images originally anyway!!! It was developed for close quarter, straight on viewing of content on computers back in the days of Windows 98!!!! (can't recall any of those handling video well!!!)

Any picture advances promised at the moment are merely bringing an unsuitable technology upto the level that Kuro owners enjoyed 2 Years ago!

Guess it's a shame Panasonic don't really make a custom install panel with a token tuner popped in.
 
JohnDuncan:PeterHerz:
Andrew Everard:OMG he's off on his reflective/non-reflective screen thing again. Nurse, the (non-reflective) screens, please...

Problem is no one is paying attention - now Panasonic thinks its ok, and have completely removed any antiglare on the new VT30. Only by professional sites complaining and commenting, can we send a signal to the manufacturers that mirror-glossy and glossy front screens does not belong on a TV set.

Panasonic VT30 night-only TV

I don't often watch television at that angle.

Or indeed under massive spotlit show lighting......
 
PeterHerz:
Andrew Everard:OMG he's off on his reflective/non-reflective screen thing again. Nurse, the (non-reflective) screens, please...

Problem is no one is paying attention

Perhaps that should tell you something...
 
AlanNorak:3D is a niche product for true AV enthusiasts

You think? I haven't met anyone that I'd regard as a "true AV enthusiast" (whatever that means) that wants to have anything to do with 3D!
 
Well - is sure a strange period within TV sets ( and notebooks ) - mirror-glossy screens, and 90% focus on a technology which is in a prototype phase, which less than 1% use, and with limited film material ( Iïm talking about 3D ). Adding to this - every year worse product quality and SD picture quality. Just my opinion,
 
i guess we'll just have to wait and see the reviews later in the year.. from Panasonic VT20 there doesnt seem to have been huge improvements.. a lot seems to be around IPTV.. and updating Veira Cast etc.. which i dont really use anyway so i'm not going to want to change my tv for that.. (thankfully!)
 
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