digital watremarking - is it embedded in any streamed ( spotify, apple music, tidal etc) digital file? what about genuine downloads from online stores? ( HD tracks, bandcamp, bleep, juno etc).. what about CD's?
digital watermarking
- Thread starter lpv
- Start date
lpv said:
A point ive never wondered about.
I wonder what reaction you get from this.
Ive never really given it a thought although im not big on streaming services.
people seems to be quiet about it but they carry on buying hi res albums, usb isolators, purifiers while source material possibly sucks.. I'm not sure whether this is true or not so I'm looking what others got to say..
we can assume that all streaming services are affected but what about downloads?
we can assume that all streaming services are affected but what about downloads?
If it's any concilation, 99.99% of HD tracks are upsampled CD rips. They haven't ruined anything spectacular with the watermark.
Hi John.. do u know any software so I can put my downloads thru it to find out whether digitally watermarked or not?
Yep. It's on downloads as well as streaming. It's added at source by the distributor / record company, not by the streaming/downloadservice.However, not all distributors / record companies use watermarking. Only physical formats like CDs and records completely avoid it. I've been complaining about it for ages on the forum, and I bring it up like a bad penny whenever someone advocates streaming or downloads as a valid replacement for physical media. But rarely does anyone but me seem concerned.
Can this be measured?
Even so, in absence of any form of accompanying information to tracks how can this be 'a problem'?
How do you know which tracks are watermarked?
Even so, in absence of any form of accompanying information to tracks how can this be 'a problem'?
How do you know which tracks are watermarked?
lpv said:
I don't know of any software specifically made for detecting it, but you can often tell with a spectrum analyser, like the one found in Adobe Audition. This website explains it and includes a number of A/B demos to try yourself. Use good headphones.
some say it's audiable..
especially with classical or where single instrument is playing or in quiet passages but also speach
especially with classical or where single instrument is playing or in quiet passages but also speach
drummerman said:
In many cases it can be easily heard let alone measured, try the demos I linked to above. Its useage vares by distributor / record company.
MajorFubar said:
How have these samples been obtained? What software/hardware was used to record/copy and place them online?
lpv said:
Some time ago I asked on the forum if anyone notices the ocassional warbly sound in Tidal. That's when I learned from the Major for the first time it was digital watermarking.
chebby
Well-known member
- Jun 2, 2008
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I complained about distortion on Spotify Premium when I first took out a free 30-day trial a few years ago.
I was comparing like-for-like, 320k AAC rips from my own CDs (via AirPlay) with 320k Spotify Premium (also via AirPlay). Everyone told me at the time it must be something I had missed.
I put it down to some kind of of volume equalizer setting IIRC.
Anyway, I use Apple Music nowadays. No similar distortion as far as I can tell.
I was comparing like-for-like, 320k AAC rips from my own CDs (via AirPlay) with 320k Spotify Premium (also via AirPlay). Everyone told me at the time it must be something I had missed.
I put it down to some kind of of volume equalizer setting IIRC.
Anyway, I use Apple Music nowadays. No similar distortion as far as I can tell.
apparently there are different techniques of 'protecting' the digital files so maybe apple choose the one that is inaudiable.. I'll check later on a headphones John's link and compare same tracks with apple music.
CD's seems to be safe bet but please do not jump to conclusions to early and don't trash all of the downloads as infected.. we need to establish which stores/ record lables etc supply us with digital garbage + software to test the files already owned.
No watermarks on CD's... I use Spotify free for talent spotting and then buy the CD. With albums released a couple of months ago for £5 on CD and older stuff for £0.50p plus £1.26 postage from Magpie etc. You would have to be a complete muppet to pay a streaming supplier £10 PCM to never own your music.
Andrewjvt said:
True. I can start to hear distortion everywhere now.
(Actually, if you read my last reply in the headphone section that is not that far off) 🙂
the samples from John's link won't load/ work properly so couldn't really test them.. I'm listening now on a HD650 Chopin's Etudes, Paganini's Caprices and Bartoli's arias and can't hear any fluttering.. zero. none.
must be that apple music use digital watermarking but it's not audiable.
must be that apple music use digital watermarking but it's not audiable.
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