Difficult times for the HiFi forum

[altruistic.lemon]

THE SEVEN COMMANDMENTS1. Whatever has a passive crossover is an enemy. 2. Whatever has an active crossove, and has a DAC, is a friend. 3. No passive brand is good. 4. All passive brands are inferior. 5. No passive brand shall be recommended.6. No passive brand compares with an active.7. AVI make the best speakers in the universe.No question,now, what had happened to the posters on the WHF and AVI forum. The creatures outside looked from post to post, and from forum to forum, and from post to forum again; but already it was impossible to say which forum was which.
With apologies to George Orwell

 

[Gravenhurst]

:rofl:

 

[plastic penguin]

THE SEVEN COMMANDMENTS1. Whatever has a passive crossover is an enemy. 2. Whatever has an active crossove, and has a DAC, is a friend. 3. No passive brand is good. 4. All passive brands are inferior. 5. No passive brand shall be recommended.6. No passive brand compares with an active.7. AVI make the best speakers in the universe.No question,now, what had happened to the posters on the WHF and AVI forum. The creatures outside looked from post to post, and from forum to forum, and from post to forum again; but already it was impossible to say which forum was which.With apologies to George Orwell

Whatever you had for breakfast I DON'T want it.

 

[cabman]

Hmm, passive aggressive ?

 

[andyjm]

THE SEVEN COMMANDMENTS

1. Whatever has a passive crossover is an enemy.

2. Whatever has an active crossove, and has a DAC, is a friend.

3. No passive brand is good.

4. All passive brands are inferior.

5. No passive brand shall be recommended.

6. No passive brand compares with an active.

7. AVI make the best speakers in the universe.

No question,now, what had happened to the posters on the WHF and AVI forum. The creatures outside looked from post to post, and from forum to forum, and from post to forum again; but already it was impossible to say which forum was which.

With apologies to George Orwell

While I get the humour in your post, the world moves on. I am an old engineer. I have seen the introduction of digital audio in the early 70s with the BBC FM transmissions, adoption of CDs in the 80s, streaming and downloads in the 00's. Processing power is now virtually free, you can do things with DSP and active designs for pennies that you can't do with passive components for 100s of £. Mainstream buyers now want plug and play, on demand, easy solutions, not some geriatric separate box system gathering dust.

I am afraid you need to catch up, the world (and the forum) is leaving you behind.

 

[BigH]

Must have been scrambled eggs!

 

[andyjm]

On an off topic (but slightly related) note, for those of you who follow electric vehicles, it is interesting to see the similarity between the conservative car buyers posting on US car magazine sites who still can't get their heads around a Tesla winning every accolade and award this year (and out dragging a BMW M5), and conservative hifi buyers when faced with a similar paradigm shift in their world.

I still have hifi mags from the 80s with (completely wrong) staircase diagrams of how digital sampling was going to work, and letter after letter saying that 'you wont find me buying one of those new fangled CDs...'

 

[Pete68]

On an off topic (but slightly related) note, for those of you who follow electric vehicles, it is interesting to see the similarity between the conservative car buyers posting on US car magazine sites who still can't get their heads around a Tesla winning every accolade and award this year (and out dragging a BMW M5), and conservative hifi buyers when faced with a similar paradigm shift in their world.

I still have hifi mags from the 80s with (completely wrong) staircase diagrams of how digital sampling was going to work, and letter after letter saying that 'you wont find me buying one of those new fangled CDs...'

Active speakers can hardly be compared to the CD revolution though can they. They are simply one choice in a market of different options.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

THE SEVEN COMMANDMENTS

1. Whatever has a passive crossover is an enemy.

2. Whatever has an active crossove, and has a DAC, is a friend.

3. No passive brand is good.

4. All passive brands are inferior.

5. No passive brand shall be recommended.

6. No passive brand compares with an active.

7. AVI make the best speakers in the universe.

No question,now, what had happened to the posters on the WHF and AVI forum. The creatures outside looked from post to post, and from forum to forum, and from post to forum again; but already it was impossible to say which forum was which.

With apologies to George Orwell

While I get the humour in your post, the world moves on. I am an old engineer. I have seen the introduction of digital audio in the early 70s with the BBC FM transmissions, adoption of CDs in the 80s, streaming and downloads in the 00's. Processing power is now virtually free, you can do things with DSP and active designs for pennies that you can't do with passive components for 100s of £. Mainstream buyers now want plug and play, on demand, easy solutions, not some geriatric separate box system gathering dust.

I am afraid you need to catch up, the world (and the forum) is leaving you behind.

I'm not an engineer like your self, so I don't have the same ground arguments as you do! I do agree that the wourld moves on, but in Hi-Fi things are not always what they seem.

The majoraty of the market in fact demands for simples solutions, but simpler some time dosn't mean better... :?

You have now young people buyng Vinyl, and the vinyl demand is rising and the same goes with TT salles. Maybe young people are realizing that analog is better that digital.

I've saw the birth of CDs and the death of vinyl, and 30 years afther I see the reverse.

:cheers:

 

[Macspur]

THE SEVEN COMMANDMENTS1. Whatever has a passive crossover is an enemy. 2. Whatever has an active crossove, and has a DAC, is a friend. 3. No passive brand is good. 4. All passive brands are inferior. 5. No passive brand shall be recommended.6. No passive brand compares with an active.7. AVI make the best speakers in the universe.No question,now, what had happened to the posters on the WHF and AVI forum. The creatures outside looked from post to post, and from forum to forum, and from post to forum again; but already it was impossible to say which forum was which.With apologies to George Orwell
Priceless!

 

[BigH]

I'm not an engineer like your self, so I don't have the same ground arguments as you do! I do agree that the wourld moves on, but in Hi-Fi things are not always what they seem.

The majoraty of the market in fact demands for simples solutions, but simpler some time dosn't mean better... :?

You have now young people buyng Vinyl, and the vinyl demand is rising and the same goes with TT salles. Maybe young people are realizing that analog is better that digital.

I've saw the birth of CDs and the death of vinyl, and 30 years afther I see the reverse.

:cheers:

Well actives are not simplier (apart from less boxes) than passives and if you look at PMC video on the subject you will see there are advantages of actives.

As for vinyl sales are still very small compared to cds or downloads, yes some people are buying vinyl instead of cds which is not surprising considering the compressed nature of many recent cds, however LPs are not cheap often £18-£20, while cds can be had for £5-£10.

 

[matthewpiano]

I'd say potentially interesting times for the hi-fi forum, if there could be less defensiveness and more open-mindedness on all sides. Open debate is a good thing and we should be more than capable of keeping things civil.

I think it is quite healthy for the status quo to be challenged, both in terms of the technologies used and in terms of attitudes towards hi-fi. The hi-fi hobby often begins from a love of music and a desire to experience that music as fully and rewardingly as possible, but it does tend to take on a life of its own after a while and the never-ending quest for upgrading this and that easily becomes out of control, with the hi-fi taking over the music. If there are new ways of doing things that help to maintain high quality of sound but without becoming all-consuming, it can only be a good thing.

However, by the same token, I'm not convinced there will ever be a one-size solution that suits everybody and for either side to continually criticise the other's technological preferences seems totally unhelpful. The whole thought that there are 'sides' in all of this is quite disturbing, seeing as most of us are aiming for much the same goals - enjoyment of music, spoken word, and movies.

 

[chebby]

I find it tiresome that after at least 40 years of active loudspeakers, from so many manufacturers in the domestic and professional arenas, the entire subject seems to be 'owned' by one small company.

Dynaudio, ATC, PMC, B&O, Yamaha, Meridian, Naim, Linn, B&W, KEF and a host of other companies (that can be found in the Active Speakers thread) all make active speakers and some were making them for decades before AVI made it's first pair of ADM9s. And yet all comments and discussion of these other active loudspeakers are somehow filtered through a handful of AVI customers and fans acting as 'gatekeepers' or arbiters of the subject.

It's disproportionate.

However (to be even-handed) it's even more tiresome to see the predictable, argumentative, needling responses (of a few forum members) to absolutely any AVI recommendation in any thread in any context. (Even the well-meaning ones.) It guarantees the outcome as surely as a tripwire in a trap.

 

[cheeseboy]

You have now young people buyng Vinyl, and the vinyl demand is rising and the same goes with TT salles. Maybe young people are realizing that analog is better that digital.

is it? Is that a hard died in the wool fact then?

All this talk of yoof buying vinyl is a bit of a misleading thing. It's the same kids who take pictures on their iphones with instagram - it's about being hip, cool and retro. I know, because I have a few of these new vinyl freinds, and trust me, vinyl is not replacing digital, it's just in addition to. Guaranteed, all of those young people buying vinyl will have some form of ipod they use to listen to music.

 

[Cypher]

altruistic lemon has a good sense of humour

 

[plastic penguin]

You have now young people buyng Vinyl, and the vinyl demand is rising and the same goes with TT salles. Maybe young people are realizing that analog is better that digital.

I've saw the birth of CDs and the death of vinyl, and 30 years afther I see the reverse.

:cheers:

Don't agree - I love vinyl but I don't think it's any better or worse than digital sources. What it does give is another dimension to the wonderful world of hi-fi. When you consider the amount of people changing from cds to streaming devices then vinyl is still a minority.

 

[byakuya83]

What is this referred to online, trolling, flame bait or simply provocation?

Nothing good will come of this topic so it may as well be closed now.

 

[Cypher]

Like the Joker said ; why so serious ?

 

[chebby]

You have now young people buyng Vinyl, and the vinyl demand is rising and the same goes with TT salles. Maybe young people are realizing that analog is better that digital.

I've saw the birth of CDs and the death of vinyl, and 30 years afther I see the reverse.

But the harsh fact remains that vinyl LP sales (despite still increasing year-on-year) are tiny and will remain tiny...

"Despite the growth in digital formats, the CD remained popular with album buyers in 2012, accounting for more than two-thirds (69.1%) of total sales compared to a 30.4% share for digital albums and 0.4% for vinyl LPs."

(MusicWeek quoting BPI figures for 2012.)

 

[lindsayt]

I totally agree with altrusitic.lemon's first post in this topic.

 

[andyjm]

You have now young people buyng Vinyl, and the vinyl demand is rising and the same goes with TT salles. Maybe young people are realizing that analog is better that digital.

I've saw the birth of CDs and the death of vinyl, and 30 years afther I see the reverse.

But the harsh fact remains that vinyl LP sales (despite still increasing year-on-year) are tiny and will remain tiny...

"Despite the growth in digital formats, the CD remained popular with album buyers in 2012, accounting for more than two-thirds (69.1%) of total sales compared to a 30.4% share for digital albums and 0.4% for vinyl LPs."

(MusicWeek quoting BPI figures for 2012.)

If you take an extremely small number and you double it, you still have an extremely small number - but a great looking percentage increase.

LP sales are a niche within a niche, nothing wrong with that, but lets not pretend it is anything more than a rounding error.

 

[Alec]

However (to be even-handed) it's even more tiresome to see the predictable, argumentative, needling responses (of a few forum members) to absolutely any AVI recommendation in any thread in any context. (Even the well-meaning ones.) It guarantees the outcome as surely as a tripwire in a trap.

Yup, and threads like this are the same, and they are bad for the forum overall.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

THE SEVEN COMMANDMENTS

1. Whatever has a passive crossover is an enemy.

2. Whatever has an active crossove, and has a DAC, is a friend.

3. No passive brand is good.

4. All passive brands are inferior.

5. No passive brand shall be recommended.

6. No passive brand compares with an active.

7. AVI make the best speakers in the universe.

No question,now, what had happened to the posters on the WHF and AVI forum. The creatures outside looked from post to post, and from forum to forum, and from post to forum again; but already it was impossible to say which forum was which.

With apologies to George Orwell

While I get the humour in your post, the world moves on. I am an old engineer. I have seen the introduction of digital audio in the early 70s with the BBC FM transmissions, adoption of CDs in the 80s, streaming and downloads in the 00's. Processing power is now virtually free, you can do things with DSP and active designs for pennies that you can't do with passive components for 100s of £. Mainstream buyers now want plug and play, on demand, easy solutions, not some geriatric separate box system gathering dust.

I am afraid you need to catch up, the world (and the forum) is leaving you behind.

I've saw the birth of CDs and the death of vinyl, and 30 years afther I see the reverse.

:cheers:

Ok maibe my last sentence is not correct, vinyl is not, and will not be the CD substitute, as Actives will not be the future of speaker!

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

You have now young people buyng Vinyl, and the vinyl demand is rising and the same goes with TT salles. Maybe young people are realizing that analog is better that digital.

is it? Is that a hard died in the wool fact then?

All this talk of yoof buying vinyl is a bit of a misleading thing. It's the same kids who take pictures on their iphones with instagram - it's about being hip, cool and retro. I know, because I have a few of these new vinyl freinds, and trust me, vinyl is not replacing digital, it's just in addition to. Guaranteed, all of those young people buying vinyl will have some form of ipod they use to listen to music.

You've a point there, but TT sales are growing, and thats a fact. Sales of new vinyl are almoust insignificant, there are lot of second hand to go around for £1 or £2.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

You have now young people buyng Vinyl, and the vinyl demand is rising and the same goes with TT salles. Maybe young people are realizing that analog is better that digital.

I've saw the birth of CDs and the death of vinyl, and 30 years afther I see the reverse.

But the harsh fact remains that vinyl LP sales (despite still increasing year-on-year) are tiny and will remain tiny...

"Despite the growth in digital formats, the CD remained popular with album buyers in 2012, accounting for more than two-thirds (69.1%) of total sales compared to a 30.4% share for digital albums and 0.4% for vinyl LPs."

(MusicWeek quoting BPI figures for 2012.)

thanks for the numbers Chebby!