Designed for their time?

[matt49]

Actually lpv is quite right, in terms of resolution, distortion, colour balence etc, etc, the old lenses are massively superior, you are confusing quality with funcionality, the 20 x zoom you mention is a dog in comparison.

However, it is small, flexible and for non professional use it is good enough, just like modern hi-fi.

On no, davedotco! So all that money I spent on L series lenses was wasted? Should I sell them all and spend the money on cheese instead?

 

[BigH]

Actually lpv is quite right, in terms of resolution, distortion, colour balence etc, etc, the old lenses are massively superior, you are confusing quality with funcionality, the 20 x zoom you mention is a dog in comparison.

However, it is small, flexible and for non professional use it is good enough, just like modern hi-fi.

On no, davedotco! So all that money I spent on L series lenses was wasted? Should I sell them all and spend the money on cheese instead?

Yes you should have bought Nikon camera and Zeiss lenses, haha.

 

[matt49]

Actually lpv is quite right, in terms of resolution, distortion, colour balence etc, etc, the old lenses are massively superior, you are confusing quality with funcionality, the 20 x zoom you mention is a dog in comparison.

However, it is small, flexible and for non professional use it is good enough, just like modern hi-fi.

On no, davedotco! So all that money I spent on L series lenses was wasted? Should I sell them all and spend the money on cheese instead?

Yes you should have bought Nikon camera and Zeiss lenses, haha.

haha haha

 

[davedotco]

Actually lpv is quite right, in terms of resolution, distortion, colour balence etc, etc, the old lenses are massively superior, you are confusing quality with funcionality, the 20 x zoom you mention is a dog in comparison.

However, it is small, flexible and for non professional use it is good enough, just like modern hi-fi.

On no, davedotco! So all that money I spent on L series lenses was wasted? Should I sell them all and spend the money on cheese instead?

Absolutely, I totally love cheese of all kinds. Lucy, the cross siamese in my sig photo, is particularly fond of a bit of blue, italian preferably though she is very fond of a bit of Roquefort.

Seriously though, most modern lenses are computer designed and optimised to be small and light, have a wide range zoom and an adequate performance. In terms of shear resolution, the ultimate test of any lense, they fall well below the standards of 'classic' Nikkors, Leica Summicrons and Zeiss Planars.

 

[matt49]

Actually lpv is quite right, in terms of resolution, distortion, colour balence etc, etc, the old lenses are massively superior, you are confusing quality with funcionality, the 20 x zoom you mention is a dog in comparison.

However, it is small, flexible and for non professional use it is good enough, just like modern hi-fi.

On no, davedotco! So all that money I spent on L series lenses was wasted? Should I sell them all and spend the money on cheese instead?

Absolutely, I totally love cheese of all kinds. Lucy, the cross siamese in my sig photo, is particularly fond of a bit of blue, italian preferably though she is very fond of a bit of Roquefort.

Seriously though, most modern lenses are computer designed and optimised to be small and light, have a wide range zoom and an adequate performance. In terms of shear resolution, the ultimate test of any lense, they fall well below the standards of 'classic' Nikkors, Leica Summicrons and Zeiss Planars.

Yes, well we all know the only really important innovation of the last 20 years has been the soft-close toilet lid.

 

[davedotco]

Actually lpv is quite right, in terms of resolution, distortion, colour balence etc, etc, the old lenses are massively superior, you are confusing quality with funcionality, the 20 x zoom you mention is a dog in comparison.

However, it is small, flexible and for non professional use it is good enough, just like modern hi-fi.

On no, davedotco! So all that money I spent on L series lenses was wasted? Should I sell them all and spend the money on cheese instead?

Absolutely, I totally love cheese of all kinds. Lucy, the cross siamese in my sig photo, is particularly fond of a bit of blue, italian preferably though she is very fond of a bit of Roquefort.

Seriously though, most modern lenses are computer designed and optimised to be small and light, have a wide range zoom and an adequate performance. In terms of shear resolution, the ultimate test of any lense, they fall well below the standards of 'classic' Nikkors, Leica Summicrons and Zeiss Planars.

Yes, well we all know the only really important innovation of the last 20 years has been the soft-close toilet lid.

Damn, I thought it was deep pan pizza, one that proves that all modern inventions are indeed rubbish.

 

[BigH]

Actually lpv is quite right, in terms of resolution, distortion, colour balence etc, etc, the old lenses are massively superior, you are confusing quality with funcionality, the 20 x zoom you mention is a dog in comparison.

However, it is small, flexible and for non professional use it is good enough, just like modern hi-fi.

On no, davedotco! So all that money I spent on L series lenses was wasted? Should I sell them all and spend the money on cheese instead?

Absolutely, I totally love cheese of all kinds. Lucy, the cross siamese in my sig photo, is particularly fond of a bit of blue, italian preferably though she is very fond of a bit of Roquefort.

Seriously though, most modern lenses are computer designed and optimised to be small and light, have a wide range zoom and an adequate performance. In terms of shear resolution, the ultimate test of any lense, they fall well below the standards of 'classic' Nikkors, Leica Summicrons and Zeiss Planars.

I think you are confusing different sorts of lenses, yes some are light and pretty average but then you have the more expensive quality ones like Canon L, Nikon and Zeiss which are just as good and often better than the old lenses, for instance the Nikon 14-24, Canon 24 TSE, Zeiss 21, Canon 135 f/2, Canon 24-70II and 70-200 f/2.8IS II, the last 2 are probably the best zooms Canon has ever produced.

I don't really see what this has to do with hi fi?

 

[chebby]

In terms of shear resolution, the ultimate test of any lense, they fall well below the standards of 'classic' Nikkors, Leica Summicrons and Zeiss Planars.

Having used some of these lenses myself (50mm Planar, 38mm Sonnar, 45mm Tessar, 50mm Summicron) back in my film days, I'd be very interested to see some of your photos from these 'classics'.

More recently I have been very impressed by some distinctly non-classical lenses with plastic in their construction (and even in their elements probably) like the bog standard Nikon AF-D 50mm, Sigma 30mm and even a cheap zoom on a point & shoot digital camera.

You speak with love of the old glass so it would be great to see your pics.

(Posts about cameras are rubbish without pictures.)

 

[the record spot]

Actually if anyone out there does understand capitalism and how it works, I think the world economy needs your attention...... :?

Not really; this being just one of the many possible outcomes in a capitalist system, that relied too heavily on an under-regulated global financial system.

The Basle Accord anyone? A bit like asking an arsonist to promise he won't set fire to anything.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I think the point is that photo tecnology has advanced measurably, giving quality impossible years ago. HiFi seems not to be comparible in this way. My 'old' slr pix were brilliant but I could do as well now for less money and with far more flexibility/features. My 'old' hifi?? Dunno.

 

[eagle123]

I been reading comments on the above re photo technology, just upgraded my camera from a nikon d5000 to a nikon d600 with the kit lens which nikon sells a 24 85mm vr.

On a whim i got my sister to spot out a mixture of photos made from my old d5000 and d600, she got 8 out of 10 right. There is a marked improvement when upgrading to the current model, the d5000 had 12 megapixels the current d600 has 24 megapixels, not just megapixels but the sensor and the processor has been improved, so yes there are improvements.

In terms of hifi i been listening to hifi since i been a teenager, your hearing changes just like your eyes change due to age, certainly music has changed too, to digital, with more treble and bass.

However listening to music is a subjective opinion one cant say this is better, as some hear more analytical whilst some like to hear more natural its the way our hearing has been arranged, thus how the brain interprets the sound.

Now to formats lp, cassettes,cd, mp3 lossless minidisc, they are designed to be convenient, and cheap to manufacture and sell, one may prefer the sound of the original lp, as they have been mastered on a top end reel to reel taperecorder then cut.

As for digital sound, the original cds were mastered on audio reel to reel, that why some may swear that they sound great, and then you get some remastered originals where the music is shown all warts and all, as the digital equipment has been refined.

The problem with cds is that its fixed on to 16 bits 44khz so the frequency response goes from 20 to 20k, however it the bits we cant hear also affects out enjoyment, on turntables the cartridges frequency response is greater, going from 16 to 28khz or greater.

And you got then sacd, which attempt to address the limitations of cd by increasing the frequency response.

in terms of amplifiers, there are subtle improvements, the old jap amps didnt have dedicated circiuits to improve the sound, they had a characteristic sound, the european amps certainly the british ones where tuned to suit music that needed a wider range and to highlight subtelity and naunces in the music being replayed.

So you got two camps one mass market designed to appeal to all, another that is designed to appeal to the connosier of music

 

[mikeparker59]

Until recently my main system was

Heybrook TT2 Linn Basik LVX arm A&RP77 cartridge

Rotel CD Player

A&R A60 Amp

Heybrook HB2 speakers original Mecom Acoustics with fleck back and foam grills not the later incarnation.

I've replaced Amp and CD Player with Marantz 6004 series, and I can detect very little difference

coming out of my HB2's though I have got the luxury of remote control now!!

My A&R A60 and Rotel have been retired off to the spare room and are hooked up to some newer speakers Mordaunt Short Aviano 1's which sound good with my vintage gear, so I'd say no to the OP question

 

[CnoEvil]

Until recently my main system was

Heybrook TT2 Linn Basik LVX arm A&RP77 cartridge

Rotel CD Player

A&R A60 Amp

Heybrook HB2 speakers original Mecom Acoustics with fleck back and foam grills not the later incarnation.

Nice time warp.

 

[mikeparker59]

Yeah about 30 years inbetween them I can honestly say the Marantz amp sounds no better than my A&R.

though my hearing is probably no longer hifi !!!!

I've had to replace the foam grills on the HB2's as they disintegrated. I had some MDF cut to size to make a frame to stretch some speaker grill material over and drilled some holes in the speaker fronts to take some grill fixing pegs. If I say so myself the speakers look pretty good now, certainly better than with rotting foam!!

 

[busb]

Actually lpv is quite right, in terms of resolution, distortion, colour balence etc, etc, the old lenses are massively superior, you are confusing quality with funcionality, the 20 x zoom you mention is a dog in comparison.

However, it is small, flexible and for non professional use it is good enough, just like modern hi-fi.

On no, davedotco! So all that money I spent on L series lenses was wasted? Should I sell them all and spend the money on cheese instead?

Absolutely, I totally love cheese of all kinds. Lucy, the cross siamese in my sig photo, is particularly fond of a bit of blue, italian preferably though she is very fond of a bit of Roquefort.

Seriously though, most modern lenses are computer designed and optimised to be small and light, have a wide range zoom and an adequate performance. In terms of shear resolution, the ultimate test of any lense, they fall well below the standards of 'classic' Nikkors, Leica Summicrons and Zeiss Planars.

Having owned both Canon & Nikon, I can honestly say that both are excellent. As for modern DSLR lenses (especially full-frame) have a very different design to their film counterparts - they are reverse-telephoto - even the telephotos. This means the focus is far more parallel to account for the 3 dimensional surface of a snesor that has microlenses above each photosite. This doesn't really reduce DoF but will lower both vignetting & chromatic abberations - to the point where firmware & software reduce it further.

Whilst on the subject of photography, it's less riven by subjectivism, IMO despite various brands leap-frogging each other constanly.

 

[davedotco]

Regarding new vs classic lenses.

Some years ago while I was still interested in (film) photography I read a technical piece in the BJ about the poor quality of modern zoom lenses compared to the classic professional quality lenses of the 70's.

I have spent some time looking, but can not find the article which suggests it was rather further back in time than I thought, possibly as much as 25 or 30 years...... :O

What I did find was some more up to date pieces on modern lenses which suggests that in this instance I was talking out of my **se.

There may well have been a time when many of the then modern zoom lenses did not stand up to their classic predecessors but with good modern designs that is no longer the case.

So, apologies all round and back to hifi.......

 

[eagle123]

sorry repeat post

 

[cheeseboy]

Damn, I thought it was deep pan pizza, one that proves that all modern inventions are indeed rubbish.

....almost. I give you the best invention in the last say 30 years.... ladies and gentlemen, the pizza vending machine http://www.letspizza.co.uk/

aahhh yeehhhhh

 

[mikeparker59]

Damn, I thought it was deep pan pizza, one that proves that all modern inventions are indeed rubbish.

....almost. I give you the best invention in the last say 30 years.... ladies and gentlemen, the pizza vending machine http://www.letspizza.co.uk/

aahhh yeehhhhh

I was in Bruges earlier this year in the Frites museun they have a chip vending machine, apparently never took off because of the amount of maintenance required!