DACs

[Gonepostal]

Good Morning to all
I’m going to ask a question that’s probably been asked many times before, but here we go.

I currently use a WiiM mini into a topping E30. This sounds good to me, but as always the question is what if…..

I’m stuck on whether I should try to upgrade the DAC, I’m thinking IFI Zen 1 signature, CA DAC magic 200 or a higher speck Topping the E70/90.

Or, would I be better suited buying the WiiM pro plus or CA mxn10 etc.

I guess the question I’m asking is, would it be better from a SQ wise updating the DAC and using the WiiM mini or buying the WiiM ultra or CA mxn10

And lastly, would I even hear any difference by changing the DAC to make it worthwhile.

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[RoA]

I have a WiiM Pro+ and it is a great little device for flexibility, cheap too. It's built in DAC is fine but I found that improvements (differences?) are possible with all my other DAC's and that includes an old DIYAudio lowly 9018 ESS based DAC which I had for years, a 9038 ESS Sabre built in to one of my amplifiers and a Chord Mojo 2.

Whether a DAC upgrade is worth the outlay only you can answer but I would certainly recommend the Pro+ just for it's features. Perhaps wait until they are discounted again which will happen again.

 

[Gonepostal]

I have a WiiM Pro+ and it is a great little device for flexibility, cheap too. It's built in DAC is fine but I found that improvements (differences?) are possible with all my other DAC's and that includes an old DIYAudio lowly 9018 ESS based DAC which I had for years, a 9038 ESS Sabre built in to one of my amplifiers and a Chord Mojo 2.

Whether a DAC upgrade is worth the outlay only you can answer but I would certainly recommend the Pro+ just for it's features. Perhaps wait until they are discounted again which will happen again.

I’m not sure that I need the features of the Pro plus. The mini does all that I need. I use my iPad to stream with Tidal Connect and play BBC sounds via airplay.

How much would I need to spend to improve the Dac in the Topping E30, in your opinion.

 

[RoA]

That really depends on what you like. I prefer ESS DAC's or the Chord as I find the AKM in the Wiim too soft. Mind, your Mini may have a different one and your system is of course different to mine too.

You really do not have to spend much these days. Sabre (ESS) if you like a bit more drive and edge, AKM for smooth and Ladder DAC's for a warmer, softer, wider but less focused sound. I am generalising but you get my drift.

I recently bought a Fiio HP amplifier/DAC and the included CS DAC is almost as good as the Mojo's.

 

[Gonepostal]

That really depends on what you like. I prefer ESS DAC's or the Chord as I find the AKM in the Wiim too soft. Mind, your Mini may have a different one and your system is of course different to mine too.

You really do not have to spend much these days. Sabre (ESS) if you like a bit more drive and edge, AKM for smooth and Ladder DAC's for a warmer, softer, wider but less focused sound. I am generalising but you get my drift.

I’m currently using an optical cable from the mini into the Topping and then an RCA to my amplifier. I was under the impression that this ensures I’m using the DAC inside the Topping and not the mini.

 

[RoA]

That is correct. What is it you hope to improve?

 

[Gonepostal]

That is correct. What is it you hope to improve?

I really don’t know. When I decided to try streaming I did it n a budget initially, hence I got the Topping from eBay for approx £70.

I’ve now experienced how convenient and enjoyable it is and naturally think could it be improved upon with a better DAC. It may be that DACs really don’t sound that much different, I don’t know.

 

[RoA]

Go to retailer that can show a few different models and has a good return policy would be my advise. Having said that most DAC’s are now very good. Its mature technology. That includes your Topping and the one in the Wiim. Whilst differences are audible they are usually relatively subtle and also depend on whether or not your system can fully resolve them.

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

I really don’t know. When I decided to try streaming I did it n a budget initially, hence I got the Topping from eBay for approx £70.

I’ve now experienced how convenient and enjoyable it is and naturally think could it be improved upon with a better DAC. It may be that DACs really don’t sound that much different, I don’t know.

I have the same set up as you (albeit the E30 II) and have the same questions. Also, considering whether the Pro Plus one box is attractive over the two box solution (albeit, like you again, I don't need any of the PP's extra abilities). Ultimately, I just filled in the rabbit hole and am happily sticking with what I have. If a Schitt Modi 3+ in black sells on ebay relatively cheaply, I might experiment there ... but that's just for "s and g's".

 

[twinkletoes]

Ah the great DAC debate some believe it gets no better than the wiim pro many will say they can hear differences.

The differences in dac's will boil down purely to the analog outputs and quality of the power supply. And even then it's a tiny difference. Heck I cant even hear the difference in filters.

I've spent many hundreds if not thousands on Dacs. I can safely say ive spent to much ! but I have bought a brand that holds its value.

My advice is buy a device that gives you the features you need, some contain streamers for instance. For you thats the way id go reducing your box count! Buy a dac with an inbuilt streamer (well you have the wiim) the new bluesound node for instance is also capable of proper full blown room correction and bass management from direc live (subscription/one time payment requires) a far more useful feature that you'll notice more than incremental updates with similar dac's. Save a little longer and make it worth while if you do decide to change.

 

[Gonepostal]

I have the same set up as you (albeit the E30 II) and have the same questions. Also, considering whether the Pro Plus one box is attractive over the two box solution (albeit, like you again, I don't need any of the PP's extra abilities). Ultimately, I just filled in the rabbit hole and am happily sticking with what I have. If a Schitt Modi 3+ in black sells on ebay relatively cheaply, I might experiment there ... but that's just for "s and g's".

The amount of DACs available is mind blowing.

 

[Gonepostal]

Ah the great DAC debate some believe it gets no better than the wiim pro many will say they can hear differences.

The differences in dac's will boil down purely to the analog outputs and quality of the power supply. And even then it's a tiny difference. Heck I cant even hear the difference in filters.

I've spent many hundreds if not thousands on Dacs. I can safely say ive spent to much ! but I have bought a brand that holds its value.

My advice is buy a device that gives you the features you need, some contain streamers for instance. For you thats the way id go reducing your box count! Buy a dac with an inbuilt streamer (well you have the wiim) the new bluesound node for instance is also capable of proper full blown room correction and bass management from direc live (subscription/one time payment requires) a far more useful feature that you'll notice more than incremental updates with similar dac's. Save a little longer and make it worth while if you do decide to change.

Wise words

 

[Noddy]

Technically the Topping E30 is excellent:

Topping E30 DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping E30 USB DAC. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing. Unfortunately I did not get pricing information. As soon as I get it, I will post it. EDIT: just heard back. US cost is just $129.99! This is a bit of a new look...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Deviation from perfect should be inaudible, and DACs above a certain price should be equivalent, though some claim to hear differences. However, there’s no reason why you can’t audition other DACs in your own home and decide for yourself. I can’t tell the difference between the DAC’s I’ve tried including AudioLab 6000a built in, Chord Mojo and the £10 Apple DAC dongle. Admittedly I find testing very hard to do.

With some DAC’s you are paying for technically better performance, better aesthetics, better marketing, higher labour costs if made in Britain etc.

I’ve experienced audio neuroticism, worrying if I’m missing out on something. I now say that my system is pretty good, and more than good enough. Does your system sound good?

 

[daytona600]

The amount of DACs available is mind blowing
The amount of Great DACs is very short

 

[Hifiman]

I have a WiiM Mini feeding a Chord Mojo 2 and it sounds great to me. My only reservation is that the Mini is beginning to miss out on the new features that are being deployed to other WiiMs because of hardware limitations. It might make sense to still pursue this route and wait until the next time the Pros/Pluses/Ultras are on sale as they were recently during Black Friday.