DacMagic based Hi-Fi system...

[admin_exported]

Hi all,

Continuing a slightly off-topic discussion which I started on another thread...

It seems to be a fairly popular opinion on this forum that the Cambridge Audio DacMagic (or the Beresford for that matter!) is the equivalent of a £500 - £1000 CD player in terms of sound quality.

I'm looking into buying my first 'proper' Hi-Fi, and have all-but convinced myself to ditch the CD-player, and instead access my music collection through lossless files stored on my computer - wired or otherwise - through a DAC (I currently own the £120 Trends Audio, but am considering the upgrade to the DM). Doing it this way will allow me to spend a little more on amp/speakers. I'm looking at approx £1000 for both, and will probably end up adding extras such as wireless multi-room capability, improved power supply etc. at a later date.

The room where I'll be putting the system is average-sized - probably a little small for floorstanding speakers (unless they were particularly compact). I currently listen to most of my music through my earphones (Shure E4Cs), and therefore would appreciate a system that can deliver on detail and timing, with the added bonus of a soundstage! I would consider buying second hand, but being a bit of a newbie wouldn't really know where to start with the second-hand market.

Can anyone make any reccomendations for speakers / amps to partner the DacMagic?

 

[Anonymous]

I reccomend my sys below, link link for image tooÿ

ÿ

http://whathifi.com/forums/211180/ShowThread.aspx#211180ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I'd go down to your closest HiFi dealer and do some listening. That will give you some idea what the options are, and what sound you like.

 

[John Duncan]

A grand will buy you a lot of amp/speaker combos, especially if you're considering second hand as well. I'd be looking at something like a second hand Primare A30.1 (600) - particularly for its balanced inuts - plus some 400 quid speakers. The two Dali Lektor standmounts are getting praise heaped on them by the shovel-load as well, for nearer the 250-300 mark.

In truth, however, it may depend on what kind of music you listen to, and in particular how much bass you want!

 

[Anonymous]

What about AVI ADM9.1?

They sound like they have it all built-in.

On paper the DAC in the speakers is better than the DacMagics (they use a higher chip in the range), plus there's ample amplification, and the designer has presumably judged all variables from the DAC to the drive unit as an end-to-end package?

 

[fatboyslimfast]

The ADMs are about 1100 quid, plus the fact that apparantly they need a decent sub as the bottom end is a little lean. Allow about 200 quid for that, and at 1300 quid if you could stretch that far, (apologies for keeping saying quid, but the KB I am typing on doesn't have a pound sign!), could well be a great system.

...but you do need to audition them first...(whistles...) Ash...can the man have a demo???

 

[chebby]

fatboyslimfast:The ADMs are about 1100 quid, plus the fact that apparantly they need a decent sub as the bottom end is a little lean. Allow about 200 quid for that,...

I am pretty sure the AVI 10" subwoofer for the ADM9.1 systems costs a lot more than £200.

I seem to remember the complete ADM9.1 (with subwoofer) system is about £1800 or so.

However there is the new Neutron V 2.1 based active system with subwoofer for £1299 (price from website) on this page....

http://www.avihifi.co.uk/index.html

Shipping in March according to the update. (I assume the eminently tech/web/computer savvy AVI keep their website details bang up-to-date)

 

[PJPro]

Chebby - are you in any way affiliated to Neutron?

 

[chebby]

No. Just pointing out there is/will be a cheaper AVI option (with sub) than the ADM9.1 that may suit the OP's smaller room better.

 

[PJPro]

Sorry. I was trying to make a point. Guess it's difficult to see the funny side from where you are sitting.

 

[chebby]

PJPro:Sorry. I was trying to make a point. Guess it's difficult to see the funny side from where you are sitting.

Well I can't talk about my new DAC so I may as well 'promote' something

 

[PJPro]

Can you talk about it in a dedicated thread? As a Beresford user, I'd like to hear about it. I knew for some time that a new one was coming out and of the mods on the 7510 being discussed.

I had decided to wait on the 7520 as I undertsand that a new power supply is under development akthough there has been talk of selling the DAC with the power supply as optional.

 

[Alec]

chebby:I seem to remember the complete ADM9.1 (with subwoofer) system is about £1800 or so

Indeed. Makes them a bit less of a bargain if you consider them bass light, but then ash has said elsewhere that that any sub could be used.

 

[Anonymous]

The ADM9.1s do interest me - I knew nothing about them until I visited this forum. Does anyone on here own a pair? They're an intriguing idea and quite different to the kind of kit I envisaged myself buying, but I'm definitely not averse to the idea of saving a bit of space! Are there many stockists in the UK (Manchester area) where I could give them a listen? They only seem to have two digital inputs though which could be a drawback, and by the sounds of it I'd need the sub to go with them which might just push the price slightly out of reach. I'll also await reviews of the Neutron 5 2.1 system with interest.

 

[Anonymous]

Will definitely have to give the B&W 685s a listen as well. They see highly regarded and are about right on price if I go the seperates route. Are there significant improvements to be gained if I were to spend, say, £150 more on speakers or would that money be better spent on improving amplification? For example, given £1000 to spend on amp & speakers, would you guys be looking to split the money in half, or would you spend proportionally more on one than the other?

 

[Anonymous]

I think active speakers are getting a bit of a hard time here.

Speaking general, if the two loudspeakers are about the same size with the same size drive unit, why is there a difference in bass?

I would suspect that the passive one is less controlled and actually incorrect. Or it could be relying on a port, which isn't controlled by the amplifier.

As good as 600-series are for the money, they are still an entry-level passive loudspeaker, and likely to be used with very modest amp's in the same price range with insufficient power.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

PJPro:Can you talk about it in a dedicated thread? As a Beresford user, I'd like to hear about it. I knew for some time that a new one was coming out and of the mods on the 7510 being discussed.

I had decided to wait on the 7520 as I undertsand that a new power supply is under development akthough there has been talk of selling the DAC with the power supply as optional.

Yes, you can - even Chebby! He had his knuckles rapped when he brought up the Beresford in an unrelated post - I think it was about Sky dishes!!

 

[chebby]

Gerrardasnails:He had his knuckles rapped when he brought up the Beresford in an unrelated post - I think it was about Sky dishes!!

It was a section of a Bristol show thread where some previous posters had been discussing lossless/compressed MP3 downloads and the Benchmark and the WHF demo from a laptop and other DACs just previously. (Not Sky dishes as far as I can recall)

I got a bit carried away with praise for my new Beresford and I have since removed my own contribution to the thread and any other references to Beresford wherever necessary after Andrew (and Clare's) admonition.

I will not be discussing the new Beresford in any way.

 

[Anonymous]

Subjective evaluations of anything are not really satisfactory. Measurements dictate precisely how your hi fi will sound and they are what its designer will have used to be sure he has achieved an acceptable standard.

One very good reason for measurements is that our ears interact with our brains to give the result we need. Some years ago the Cambridge University Auditory Dept did a series of tests to show how the process worked. This consisted of distorting some speech so that few if any people could understand a word of it. They played this to a series of people who confirmed that it was unintelligible, then they played the undistorted recording, so everyone knew what had been said and finally they played the distorted sound again and this time people could completely understand. The ear brain combination had learnt how to decode the distortion.

Now if you ask anyone how good his hi fi system is, he'll tell you it is as good as he has heard and he'll be right, simply because he can no longer hear its faults. This is good because perfect hi fi doesn't exist, but it can be bad too. If this imaginary person were to be presented with something that measured a great deal better than his system and therefore sounded much better, he may not immediately hear this because his brain is still trying to decode his system, he has to adjust first before he can make a value judgement. Some people adapt very quickly and others have real problems of which the change from vinyl to CD is a clear example. It's probably possible to show that vinyl has one thousand times as much distortion as CD, but to try an convince a vinyl addict of this would be starting a war.

Boom is a regular topic for discussion on all Forums, but no one actually knows when their speakers are not booming. All speakers do to some extent, cheaper ones more so, low powered amps make it worse, bad port alignments worse still and even rooms can exacerbate the problem.

The big difference between active speakers and passive ones is that boom is reduced by a factor of at least one hundred and it could be as much as one thousand. This is because the power amplifier is connected straight to the driver and not through a crossover. A crossover is resistive and acts like a spring in the speaker wire. The lean sound of Active speakers is simply less distortion, NOT less bass, which means great clarity/quality once you've adjusted.

I apologise for interfering with a thread not directly related to our speakers and I hope this explanation is considered useful in a general sense.

Ashley

 

[Andrew Everard]

chebby:
I got a bit carried away with praise for my new Beresford and I have since removed my own contribution to the thread and any other references to Beresford wherever necessary after Andrew (and Clare's) admonition.

I will not be discussing the new Beresford in any way.

It wasn't really an admonition - it's just that some recent posts by various people on here (present company not included) have led to suspicions that there may be 'hidden agendas' going on in terms of products being promoted. So carry on discussing Beresford, Chebby, just as Eddie Pound leaps in with AVI, and John Duncan HobNobs.

If I was being over-cautious or excessively suspicious, apologies, but I like to keep things transparent here, as in Ash's posts - he has his company listed in his signature, and so we know exactly where he's coming from.

We have no problems with manufacturers, distributors and retailers getting involved in the Forums - in fact we welcome such input - but it's only fair on other posters and casual readers that they declare any interests.

Just trying to keep the forums free from marketing subterfuge...

 

[Anonymous]

eightballtom:The ADM9.1s do interest me - I knew nothing about them until I visited this forum. Does anyone on here own a pair? They're an intriguing idea and quite different to the kind of kit I envisaged myself buying, but I'm definitely not averse to the idea of saving a bit of space! Are there many stockists in the UK (Manchester area) where I could give them a listen? They only seem to have two digital inputs though which could be a drawback, and by the sounds of it I'd need the sub to go with them which might just push the price slightly out of reach. I'll also await reviews of the Neutron 5 2.1 system with interest.

Hi I own the ADM9's and run them without a sub with great results. I should mention that I bought these as a neat solution when I rellocated abroad. In doing so I sold a GBP 6k system (consisting of Cyrus DAC-X and Cyrus transport, Bel Canto mono amps and Dynaudio speakers). The AVIs compare favourably, particularly in dynamics and sound staging. They're astonishing value for money.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

chebby:Gerrardasnails:He had his knuckles rapped when he brought up the Beresford in an unrelated post - I think it was about Sky dishes!!

It was a section of a Bristol show thread where some previous posters had been discussing lossless/compressed MP3 downloads and the Benchmark and the WHF demo from a laptop and other DACs just previously. (Not Sky dishes as far as I can recall)

I got a bit carried away with praise for my new Beresford and I have since removed my own contribution to the thread and any other references to Beresford wherever necessary after Andrew (and Clare's) admonition.

I will not be discussing the new Beresford in any way.

I was joking Chebby!

 

[Anonymous]

There's always the Musical Fidelity v-dac to consider, too. It's now a lot cheaper than the DacMagic.

 

[John Duncan]

Andrew Everard:HobNobs

I'm afraid in these recessionary times I have had to cut my cloth accordingly.......

 

[Andrew Everard]

JohnDuncan:Andrew Everard:HobNobs

I'm afraid in these recessionary times I have had to cut my cloth accordingly.......

, surely...?