Question DACMagic 200M |How much of a difference can I expect?

[bofh]

I've got a Myryad MI120 playing through original Epos ES14 speakers. Currently it's fed by a £50 DAC connected over Bluetooth and Chord C-line RCA cables. So, basically a respectable mid-range combination fed by a relatively inexpensive DAC. I'm just wondering if anybody here has made a similar upgrade and what a difference it made? My music collection is nearly all FLAC ripped from CD.

 

[Revolutions]

The only way you'll really know is by listening, unfortunately. Do you have a shop nearby that stocks the DACMagic so you can take your current DAC along & compare? A home test would be preferable as the shop's equipment is likely to be pretty different from your setup, so worth exploring that option if possible.

 

[Stuart83]

DAC's can make a difference mostly when going from cheap to a better one but Bluetooth will always be a weak link, I have Bluetooth in my system via an Ifi-Zen with LDAC but still mothballed it in the end noticing it's limits and to me with my system a massive improvement using a Hegal dac straight from CD.

I'd imagine your upgrade is closer than you think and it's to do away with Bluetooth and get your music direct from "source" via a physical connection if your looking to improve sound quality over convenience, otherwise your quest for improvement will always be limited by your connections limitations,

 

[bofh]

DAC's can make a difference mostly when going from cheap to a better one but Bluetooth will always be a weak link, I have Bluetooth in my system via an Ifi-Zen with LDAC but still mothballed it in the end noticing it's limits and to me with my system a massive improvement using a Hegal dac straight from CD.

I'd imagine your upgrade is closer than you think and it's to do away with Bluetooth and get your music direct from "source" via a physical connection if your looking to improve sound quality over convenience, otherwise your quest for improvement will always be limited by your connections limitations,

Thanks for your advice, I'll give the 200M a miss for the moment then. My current DAC seems to have issues with the USB connection, whichever laptop I plug it into. My newest laptop dates back to 2013 but it never had an issue with the previous DAC. I'll look for something else used on the bay.

 

[nopiano]

If you have problems, then I’d certainly avoid Bluetooth. Are all your FLAC copies on a computer?
It depends on what you want to improve, but with your follow up it suggests that getting a dependable connection is the first step, rather than pondering over the audio qualities.

In the nicest way, I can’t imagine a 12 year old laptop is an ideal source for music. You could get a complete streamer with DAC for less than the RRP of a DAC Magic 200 and have access to millions of tracks for a tenner a month.

 

[bofh]

If you have problems, then I’d certainly avoid Bluetooth. Are all your FLAC copies on a computer?
It depends on what you want to improve, but with your follow up it suggests that getting a dependable connection is the first step, rather than pondering over the audio qualities.

In the nicest way, I can’t imagine a 12 year old laptop is an ideal source for music. You could get a complete streamer with DAC for less than the RRP of a DAC Magic 200 and have access to millions of tracks for a tenner a month.

I'd don't like streaming as either a business model or as a technology. The laptop isn't an issue - dual processors running at GHz have way more than enough capacity for processing audio signals. I'll stick with what I've got for the moment and look around on eBay for a secondhand DAC.

 

[Dave_]

In the nicest way, I can’t imagine a 12 year old laptop is an ideal source for music. You could get a complete streamer with DAC for less than the RRP of a DAC Magic 200 and have access to millions of tracks for a tenner a month.

Music streaming/playback is trivial.

A 12 year old laptop is a more than adequate source. Even a $5 Raspberry Pi Zero is a more than capable source.

I'd agree that Bluetooth is the weak link here....

Though sceptical you'd reliably be able to hear a difference under blind conditions.

 

[record_spot]

Get hold of one from the Cambridge Ebay store. They've been going for about £249 for the refurbished or Open Box models. There's also a coupon discount that brings the price down further and Cambridge give you a 30 day return period. That'd be my pick.

Personally, I think it's a great unit with excellent sound and ample connectivity.

Link to item below:-

Pardon our interruption...

 

[record_spot]

Though sceptical you'd reliably be able to hear a difference under blind conditions.

In my experience with the 200M, the Bluetooth performance was adequate, but outdone by recordings either streamed from Qobuz or direct from my phone via a wired connection.

 

[nopiano]

Music streaming/playback is trivial.

A 12 year old laptop is a more than adequate source. Even a $5 Raspberry Pi Zero is a more than capable source.

I'd agree that Bluetooth is the weak link here....

Though sceptical you'd reliably be able to hear a difference under blind conditions.

I wasn’t implying a lack of ‘power’ in the spec, I was thinking more an operating system that might be outdated, and the unwanted noise associated with a laptop. I realise I failed to spell that out.

And what are the issues the OP with a reliable connection?

Not clear how Bluetooth is involved either!

 

[Dave_]

I wasn’t implying a lack of ‘power’ in the spec, I was thinking more an operating system that might be outdated,

Not really an issue for music playback. Security is a different matter.

and the unwanted noise associated with a laptop. I realise I failed to spell that out.

If you mean from HDD and fans then fair enough, though been there and done that and I didn't find it an problem.

If you mean "electrically" then it's a non issue...

And what are the issues the OP with a reliable connection?

Unless I missed it the op didn't elaborate other than to mention they had issues with USB.

Not clear how Bluetooth is involved either!

I interpreted it as they're using BT because of whatever issue they're having with USB

 

[Stuart83]

Reading between the lines, I'm assuming perhaps it's a "Bluetooth/DAC receiver" being fed by a laptops native Bluetooth then wired into the amps RCA ?

If it is then It's a set-up I'm very familiar with being something I've done a couple of times in yrs gone by for convenience and again with a long since mothballed option incorporated into my current system for sending over music from my phone to the amp via Bluetooth, as most know yet some still deny the difference is night and day when switching to CD despite the usual barrage of hype over different codecs

The more localised your source is using a physical connection the better the quality

 

[Jasonovich]

In the nicest way, I can’t imagine a 12 year old laptop is an ideal source for music. You could get a complete streamer with DAC for less than the RRP of a DAC Magic 200 and have access to millions of tracks for a tenner a month.

Or Steamer DAC that allows you to input your USB Flash Drive/SSD, so you can listen to your music directly without the need of a laptop. 🙂

 

[Stuart83]

Or Steamer DAC that allows you to input your USB Flash Drive/SSD, so you can listen to your music directly without the need of a laptop. 🙂

👋🤗
So absolutely obviously a typo yet the infantile part of me chuckled at what a flawed concept a "Steamer DAC" would be from the inevitable, but in this world of convenience what an interesting way of keeping the kitchen uncluttered 😂

Although a streamer/dac that combines a usb connection is a good idea and gives an option to reconsider in the future, I know where I'd go with it 😁 after doing away with Bluetooth, the OP mentioned he doesn't like and won't be streaming media but does seem use existing CDs to rip to a HDD, that leaves the door wide open to two possible upgrades at once with one move,

A good budget CDP with usb input, but buyer beware some have a file limit and most only allow thumb drives and memory cards so it would depend on how many rips were talking about, I've never hit the limit with the CD 60 but it does have one.

Then again there's more options to connect a wired connection from a laptop straight to a dac then amp via RCA input but without "knowing" more it's impossible to say which would be best on paper at least, and all importantly if it would be a worth while improvement over the obvious, there's even a way of harvesting the digital signal from a laptops HDMI port (if it has one) then wired to the DAC 😕

But-

All that said I'd be exploring as to why your dac won't connect via USB, it's not usually a driver issue but reading between the lines with the age of your laptop and the possibility of having a non-class compliant DAC you would need to start by ensuring proper driver installation and sourcing the DAC as the laptops audio device in your system's sound preferences

I rather think you've already tried different USB ports and a different USB cable to rule out hardware issues and the old very, very technical switching the DAC off for awhile then the just as technical switching it back on again 😁.

It was possible to offer a deeper knowledge and extra help direct via the "private messages" option but it's been banned in all the silliness of the current climate but I'm sure if you wanted to give more info people's shared knowledge on here could get you connected or identify the DAC itself as you suspect faulty .

 

[Jasonovich]

👋🤗
So absolutely obviously a typo yet the infantile part of me chuckled at what a flawed concept a "Steamer DAC" would be from the inevitable, but in this world of convenience what an interesting way of keeping the kitchen uncluttered 😂

Although a streamer/dac that combines a usb connection is a good idea and gives an option to reconsider in the future, I know where I'd go with it 😁 after doing away with Bluetooth, the OP mentioned he doesn't like and won't be streaming media but does seem use existing CDs to rip to a HDD, that leaves the door wide open to two possible upgrades at once with one move,

A good budget CDP with usb input, but buyer beware some have a file limit and most only allow thumb drives and memory cards so it would depend on how many rips were talking about, I've never hit the limit with the CD 60 but it does have one.

Then again there's more options to connect a wired connection from a laptop straight to a dac then amp via RCA input but without "knowing" more it's impossible to say which would be best on paper at least, and all importantly if it would be a worth while improvement over the obvious, there's even a way of harvesting the digital signal from a laptops HDMI port (if it has one) then wired to the DAC 😕

But-

All that said I'd be exploring as to why your dac won't connect via USB, it's not usually a driver issue but reading between the lines with the age of your laptop and the possibility of having a non-class compliant DAC you would need to start by ensuring proper driver installation and sourcing the DAC as the laptops audio device in your system's sound preferences

I rather think you've already tried different USB ports and a different USB cable to rule out hardware issues and the old very, very technical switching the DAC off for awhile then the just as technical switching it back on again 😁.

It was possible to offer a deeper knowledge and extra help direct via the "private messages" option but it's been banned in all the silliness of the current climate but I'm sure if you wanted to give more info people's shared knowledge on here could get you connected or identify the DAC itself as you suspect faulty .

Well spotted, my 'R' did a runner! 🙂

You're right, I suspect it is software issue, possibly the chipset drivers on his the laptop require updating, should be an easy fix for the OP.

I use my Matrix Mini I-4 Streamer DAC mostly for networking my music via local storage, less for streaming. I actually have my music files on my digital transport connected to my Matrix using USB cable option, I can use the Streamer DAC but works better for me using my digital transport.

Probably not worth the hassle, the OP can also consider getting hold off dirt cheap mini PC, the one from Amazon cost £99 for basic Linux model (he would need a monitor though), he could then plug his USB drive to one of the available sockets. If the DAC is XMOS or generic he can install the appropriate drivers. He can use this instead of his laptop.
He can also download to mini PC streaming Apps like Spotify, should he have a change of heart, probably not 🙂

 

[Stuart83]

Well spotted, my 'R' did a runner! 🙂

You're right, I suspect it is software issue, possibly the chipset drivers on his the laptop require updating, should be an easy fix for the OP.

I use my Matrix Mini I-4 Streamer DAC mostly for networking my music via local storage, less for streaming. I actually have my music files on my digital transport connected to my Matrix using USB cable option, I can use the Streamer DAC but works better for me using my digital transport.

Probably not worth the hassle, the OP can also consider getting hold off dirt cheap mini PC, the one from Amazon cost £99 for basic Linux model (he would need a monitor though), he could then plug his USB drive to one of the available sockets. If the DAC is XMOS or generic he can install the appropriate drivers. He can use this instead of his laptop.
He can also download to mini PC streaming Apps like Spotify, should he have a change of heart, probably not 🙂

View attachment 9825

All good ideas 💡
It's strange one can get a mini pc cheaper than a decent "audiophile" streamer from that people can make their own assumptions but when feeding an existing decent dac with it's own "clock" then it's definitely a good solution to cut cost, also with added perks of having an open OS 😁
I know good DAC's reclock regardless of source like the Hegal I have that runs a master clock regardless of source nullifying any questions on a cheap pc's ability to mediate a source.

I picked up awhile ago you knew your onions with all things computing, it is good theorising over the possibilities regardless if the OP comes back to further look into the thread 😊

Not to whine on, but I was after enjoying getting to know you better send you a PM on such matters and knowing me a lot, lot more on such topics etc 🤣 to avoid littering up open threads and discussing things directly for all to see whilst the inevitable trolls circle which isn't ideal but as I genuinely enjoy talking to "you" and few others its something I'm prepared to endure, thread derails and things going way, way off topic is something the moderators will have to perhaps more understand and be more tolerant towards now knowing people here joined when PM's were one of the cornerstones of forming online friendships and likewise discussing things more in depth akin to being as such.

 

[Jasonovich]

All good ideas 💡
It's strange one can get a mini pc cheaper than a decent "audiophile" streamer from that people can make their own assumptions but when feeding an existing decent dac with it's own "clock" then it's definitely a good solution to cut cost, also with added perks of having an open OS 😁
I know good DAC's reclock regardless of source like the Hegal I have that runs a master clock regardless of source nullifying any questions on a cheap pc's ability to mediate a source.

I picked up awhile ago you knew your onions with all things computing, it is good theorising over the possibilities regardless if the OP comes back to further look into the thread 😊

Not to whine on, but I was after enjoying getting to know you better send you a PM on such matters and knowing me a lot, lot more on such topics etc 🤣 to avoid littering up open threads and discussing things directly for all to see whilst the inevitable trolls circle which isn't ideal but as I genuinely enjoy talking to "you" and few others its something I'm prepared to endure, thread derails and things going way, way off topic is something the moderators will have to perhaps more understand and be more tolerant towards now knowing people here joined when PM's were one of the cornerstones of forming online friendships and likewise discussing things more in depth akin to being as such.

Kind words Stuart, really appreciate it. Thank you and likewise! 👍
PM was a great interface, where you can take the conversation outside the thread.
Don't wish to invoke the Wraith of the Klingon Dynasty by going off topic 😁 but I think it's fair to say, we have seen a great erosion of our personal liberties.
If we follow this trigonometry and project the reality in twenty years time, then I would find myself in shackles (if I'm still alive 😊) for my saucy thoughts which I was entertaining when I ran into my young neighbours wife.
Anyway, must zip it!

I have been PC enthusiast dating back to the 90s but even today, I get bamboozled by Microsoft.
Their latest OS update has messed up my USB SD card connection. Effectively no longer able to transfer my music on to TF (micro SD). Pain because I have more music I need to add on to my DAP

I have done the due diligence, updated the chipsets, updated USB hub, no joy.
My only option now is a clean install of Windows and don't want to do that, don't want to disturb my settings. Everything is backed up anyway on the NAS but I think better to let sleepy dogs lie.

I've decided to get a mini pc - see below, which I plan to use for SD/TF music transfer.
A little extreme I know but it's dirt cheap and takes almost no space.
It's also a cheap way to stream your music 😊

￡168.88 | MeLE Quieter4C N150 Fanless Mini PC 32GB LPDDR5 512GB Micro Desktop Computer,4K,Dual HDMI,All-in-One USB-C WiFi 5 BT5.1 Ethernet

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Ps. There is another option. I can connect my SD card via the NAS USB connections and do the music transfers via cloud ☁️ 🌨️ that might work? Worth a try 😊

 

[Stuart83]

Kind words Stuart, really appreciate it. Thank you and likewise! 👍
PM was a great interface, where you can take the conversation outside the thread.
Don't wish to invoke the Wraith of the Klingon Dynasty by going off topic 😁 but I think it's fair to say, we have seen a great erosion of our personal liberties.
If we follow this trigonometry and project the reality in twenty years time, then I would find myself in shackles (if I'm still alive 😊) for my saucy thoughts which I was entertaining when I ran into my young neighbours wife.
Anyway, must zip it!

I have been PC enthusiast dating back to the 90s but even today, I get bamboozled by Microsoft.
Their latest OS update has messed up my USB SD card connection. Effectively no longer able to transfer my music on to TF (micro SD). Pain because I have more music I need to add on to my DAP

I have done the due diligence, updated the chipsets, updated USB hub, no joy.
My only option now is a clean install of Windows and don't want to do that, don't want to disturb my settings. Everything is backed up anyway on the NAS but I think better to let sleepy dogs lie.

I've decided to get a mini pc - see below, which I plan to use for SD/TF music transfer.
A little extreme I know but it's dirt cheap and takes almost no space.
It's also a cheap way to stream your music 😊

￡168.88 | MeLE Quieter4C N150 Fanless Mini PC 32GB LPDDR5 512GB Micro Desktop Computer,4K,Dual HDMI,All-in-One USB-C WiFi 5 BT5.1 Ethernet

MeLE Quieter4C N150 Lüfterloser Mini-PC 32 GB LPDDR5 512 GB Micro-Desktop-Computer, 4K, Dual HDMI, All-in-One USB-C WiFi 5 BT5.1 Ethernet - AliExpress 7

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

Ps. There is another option. I can connect my SD card via the NAS USB connections and do the music transfers via cloud ☁️ 🌨️ that might work? Worth a try 😊

Sorry for not being able to reply properly as I'm still over busy and as you know I'm not one for giving a short machine like reply 🤖

 

[Stuart83]

Sorry for the belated reply I do apologise, I've been so busy with the things in life that don't interest me to fund the things in life that do interest me

Don't wish to invoke the Wraith of the Klingon Dynasty by going off topic 😁 but I think it's fair to say, we have seen a great erosion of our personal liberties.

To also stay clear of and not to provoke the moderators and plainly not wanting to give em a hard time, i find what Elon Musk said on the matter very interesting 🤔

PM was a great interface, where you can take the conversation outside the thread.

👍 Absolutely, as said i rather hope the host will relax the constraints to communicate "topically" outside of a given thread, otherwise it effectively shuts down the ability to form an online friendship via a shared passion altogether and judging by the reply content to the announcement of such draconian rules it absolutely seems friendship through a shared passion is what built the site.

I for one would h8 to see it become a "question answer" site full of strangers unable to communicate outside of the above "question answer format" with all the coldness of such places that as a result never develop a long term core user group, human behaviour can be a funny thing and the subconscious decision to start peeling away starts unknown even with the most loyal when personal and moral ethics are brought into question.

I have been PC enthusiast dating back to the 90s but even today, I get bamboozled by Microsoft.
Their latest OS update has messed up my USB SD card connection. Effectively no longer able to transfer my music on to TF (micro SD). Pain because I have more music I need to add on to my DAP

I have done the due diligence, updated the chipsets, updated USB hub, no joy.
My only option now is a clean install of Windows and don't want to do that, don't want to disturb my settings. Everything is backed up anyway on the NAS but I think better to let sleepy dogs lie.

😂 Absolutely, I dont know anybody young or old, expert or novice that doesn't suffer the sheer frustration that is windows at times, I even went off in the huff for awhile and started using Ubuntu, is it at Asus by any chance? not that these problems are brand specific but I have heard of such a blunder in updates messing with such things before, as you have said and as I expected you've gone further than most to remedy the problem but unlike most including me at times you have that all important back-up that people never get round to making 😂
Reading what I've seen I'm certainly not going to be the one "trying to teach your grandma to suck eggs" and I'm almost presuming that you've had a look over the internet at the huge list of things from the silliness to possible fixes already, it will be one of those things you will get round to one fixing one afternoon.

I've decided to get a mini pc

As there has been a gap in my reply 😐 I'm wondering if you have since took delivery of the mini pc you mentioned ? as reading up on it through your link it seems to be very capable and I agree for what your getting "dirt cheap" and able of hosting any stream you so wish, it was something I looked into awhile ago but found repurposing an older laptop sufficed.
And..... Back to DAC's and the difference they do/don't make, I found myself paying more than budgeted and purchasing a very good little dac in the Mojo 2 which is a departing from the off the shelf traditional DACs that use standard chips from manufacturers like ESS or AKM, the Mojo 2 uses a powerful FPGA (Field-Programmable Gate Array) loaded with custom code designed by Rob Watts says Google 🤣, which tbh I couldn't care less as with me it's the sound that comes out that is of concern and it's a little firecracker, It has so much even the DSP and oodles of effortless of power, I've yet to try it on my Hifi but as a headphone dac/amp it's what stuck out for me

 

[Jasonovich]

😂 Absolutely, I don't know anybody young or old, expert or novice that doesn't suffer the sheer frustration that is windows at times, I even went off in the huff for awhile and started using Ubuntu, is it at Asus by any chance? not that these problems are brand specific but I have heard of such a blunder in updates messing with such things before, as you have said and as I expected you've gone further than most to remedy the problem but unlike most including me at times you have that all important back-up that people never get round to making 😂
Reading what I've seen I'm certainly not going to be the one "trying to teach your grandma to suck eggs" and I'm almost presuming that you've had a look over the internet at the huge list of things from the silliness to possible fixes already, it will be one of those things you will get round to one fixing one afternoon.

It was Asus motherboard but it unfortunately died under warranty, I RMA 'd to SCAN UK. I initially asked for it to be replaced but ASUS was unwilling, claiming I scratched the board and this had invalidated the warranty.

It was nonsense, I pointed out to ASUS it was a cosmetic scratch caused by GPU vertical mount bracket and the scratch was situated away from the printed circuitry and this could not have caused the motherboard to fail.
This went on for six months, SCAN UK credit to them, unilaterally decided they would refund me in full. They decided Customer Satisfaction would prevail over ASUS's draconian policies.
ASUS is on my personal blacklist! I'm using Gigabyte AORUS 870 motherboard now 🙂

That SD issue I managed to fix, MS sent me a patch which fixed the problem.

Recently I tried to unify my work laptop and Home PC passwords on MS profile, oh what pain! 🙂

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[Jasonovich]

As there has been a gap in my reply 😐 I'm wondering if you have since took delivery of the mini pc you mentioned ? as reading up on it through your link it seems to be very capable and I agree for what your getting "dirt cheap" and able of hosting any stream you so wish, it was something I looked into awhile ago but found repurposing an older laptop sufficed.
And..... Back to DAC's and the difference they do/don't make, I found myself paying more than budgeted and purchasing a very good little dac in the Mojo 2 which is a departing from the off the shelf traditional DACs that use standard chips from manufacturers like ESS or AKM, the Mojo 2 uses a powerful FPGA (Field-Programmable Gate Array) loaded with custom code designed by Rob Watts says Google 🤣, which tbh I couldn't care less as with me it's the sound that comes out that is of concern and it's a little firecracker, It has so much even the DSP and oodles of effortless of power, I've yet to try it on my Hifi but as a headphone dac/amp it's what stuck out for me

Thanks Stuart for asking, yes my mini pc secondhand was delivered, 2 weeks ago? The specs are pretty good for the price, the seller very kindly installed Windows 11 Home version at no extra costs.
It's as quick as my work laptop and only at fraction of the costs.
I'm not sure what I want to do with it, I might turn it into a multimedia hub. It's there as my emergency PC.





Apart from Chord, I believe Linn's DACs are also FPGA based and I also understand producing a great sound. It's true we do kind of get hang up on the technology but what matters is the sound and, some would say all DACs sound the same!

I'm looking at the Mojo 2 and was struggling to find the headphone jack, had a harder look and it's on the side!
No arguing, Chord are rather unique in their approach, their normal (ish) boxes are £14K, Holy Molly, No not the Rumanian singer!



It would be great if Chord gives us a choice, a conventional looking DAC with a remote and no coloured golf balls. Ah that would be boring! 🤣