Dac upgrade or New cd player

[dayglowred7]

Hello , I have like many purchased a Marantz CD6004 , and while I'am very happty with the sound and quality for the given price , my question is the future upgrade path.

Is it better to by a new dac and then have the marantz used for transport duties , or upgrade to a new cd player.

I suspect that given the price of a good quality dac vs cd player , the dac may be the better option .

Have readers had good results using a dac or have you opted for a more expensive cd player.

It seems such a waste to sell a perfectly good cd player to help fund another, when a dac upgrade may prove more useful and cost effective.

I would set a budget of around £600 for a upgrade but as yet it's in the thought stage , so gathering any help possible

But of course I 'am open to any suggestions I listen to a wide range of music , like heavy metal , grunge and rock .

Thanks all for any help .

 

[Ben123]

how about selling your amplifier and cd player to fund a pm6005 - its an amplifier with built in optical / coaxial dac? (£379 from richer sounds)

just need a laptop with an optical output (can be done via expresscard soundcard)

let us know what kit you currently have as the only big question is whether it will be an upgrade to what you already have (speakers and amp).

 

[dayglowred7]

Hi Ben123 , Well the amp is sony av one about 5 years old , so it's still ok , and do not really want to get rid of it as I quite like it actually. Bearing in mind it's propabaly not the best amp for stereo , but I cant really fund another stereo only set up .

My AV system is for family as well so thats why I have to use the Sony amp , I could sell the amp and find one thats more musical in stereo , but I'm not sure which is best.

The cd side of the AV is for my listening pleasure so thats what I want to concentrate on . But yes I may benefit from a new amp , rather than a cd or dac.

 

[gurjitsidhu]

Hi,

I would say upgrade the DAC next since its so versatile meaning you can plug other sources into it in the future.
I have a Yamaha CDS-300 cd player which has not had as good reviews as your CD player and when I decided to use that as a transporter and a £500 Rega Dac, the effect was less than minimal. So i expect you wont hear a massive difference since your cd player is meant to be better than mine. Nevertheless, having a dac for airplay, plugging in laptop and tv have all seen good improvements over sound quality. Especially the tv. I use my hifi for tv also and before I got the dac, voices were muffled and music noises were overpowering. Now however, the dac seems to have sorted my tv levels out so for that reason, im happy I got it.

It could be because I have a AS-500 amp that I cant hear the difference the dac made to my CD player. perhaps I need a more expensive amp to notice the difference?

 

[BigH]

Hi Ben123 , Well the amp is sony av one about 5 years old , so it's still ok , and do not really want to get rid of it as I quite like it actually. Bearing in mind it's propabaly not the best amp for stereo , but I cant really fund another stereo only set up .

My AV system is for family as well so thats why I have to use the Sony amp , I could sell the amp and find one thats more musical in stereo , but I'm not sure which is best.

The cd side of the AV is for my listening pleasure so thats what I want to concentrate on . But yes I may benefit from a new amp , rather than a cd or dac.

You may want to consider Blu Ray players instead of the CDP, some like Oppo and Cambridge are tuned for audio and have decent dacs, of course they play BD discs and SACDs as well.

 

[Cypher]

The DAC of the Marantz CD6004 is already very good. Great player.

I think if you want to buy a DAC to improve this player you have to buy an expensive DAC otherwise there will be no improvement I think.

Maybe the Arcam Irdac ?

 

[Al ears]

A tricky one. If you do not have any other devices at hand that you would plug into an external DAC then I would say upgrade the CD player.

However the 6004 is very good for the money so you would have to spend a fair bit to better it, and if you do then the amp becomes a sticking point. Ho hum, I'd just spend the money on more music.

Just seen the above post appear, I wouldn't buy an external DAC unless you have other devices to make use of it. i.e. laptop with hi-res files.

 

[Ben123]

ok well youve introduced another problem which is getting good sounding music out of an av receiver. there are many ways ATTEMPT to do this but in my experience of faffing about i gave up and sold all my av stuff. a 2 channel setup is a must for good music. the av amp is holding your good cd player back. some people are happy with their av receivers 2 channel performance but i would rather recommend you an excellent setup rather than an ok one.

in your case as you need both av and hifi. i can recommend 2 options (there are more of course).

option 1: spend lots of money on a high end arcam av reciever. good at both music and films

option 2. keep your sony av and buy a hifi amplifer/amplifer & dac combo

of course the 2 channel system and sony av will need to be sharing one set of speakers: normally there would be no way to do this unless you kept swapping over the speaker cables from the av amp to the hifi amp depending on use (a real pain).

I got round this by using one of these:

http://www.beresford.me/products/TC-7220.html

 

[dayglowred7]

Thanks all , I do have a bluray player it is the SONY bdp 370 it's a few years old but it's also running ok , so seeno need to change that either .My palsma TV Also several years old now , sounds great through my amp and speaker set up so , I not sure If a dac is going to help if thats all I'm going to plug into it . All my speakers are from the Q Acoustics range bought when funds allowed.

Bought AMP SONY 1200 ES Q ACOUSTICS 1010 REARS and SONY bdp 370 from RICHER SOUNDS .

As they were the cheapest deals . Front speakers Q acoustics 10301 came from SUPERFI , and Q ACOUTIC CENTE1000i came from ebay for £17 .

So I have had to build it bit by bit but i like it .

chord carnival siver screen speaker cable fitted yesterday to all three main speakers.

 

[dayglowred7]

Thanks all , I do have a bluray player it is the SONY bdp 370 it's a few years old but it's also running ok , so seeno need to change that either .My palsma TV Also several years old now , sounds great through my amp and speaker set up so , I not sure If a dac is going to help if thats all I'm going to plug into it . All my speakers are from the Q Acoustics range bought when funds allowed.

Bought AMP SONY 1200 ES Q ACOUSTICS 1010 REARS and SONY bdp 370 from RICHER SOUNDS .

As they were the cheapest deals . Front speakers Q acoustics 10301 came from SUPERFI , and Q ACOUTIC CENTE1000i came from ebay for £17 .

So I have had to build it bit by bit but i like it .

chord carnival siver screen speaker cable fitted yesterday to all three main speakers.

 

[dayglowred7]

yes BEN123 , I have considered this option a numerous times but then it's as you say switching the speakers over which yes is a real pain , so introduce a switching box, I can't sell the AV side as it's for family and the cd music option is for me , so I guess the option is the ARCAM AV amp but which, and I may get one off ebay second hand or if funds allow new from a dealer ,

 

[Ben123]

with the switching box you could keep your cd player and sony av amp, you would just be adding a hifi amp. I suppose it would be a lot of boxes though.

I must admit when funds allow i will be looking at an arcam av.

just today i notived some very good pricing on arcam av amps. how good it sounds with music is of course up for debate

http://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/p/arcam-fmj-avr360av-receiver

 

[the record spot]

Getting great stereo out of an AV amp is easy. Amazed this still persists.

 

[MajorFubar]

The crux of this question seems to be, will a new player costing the realisable value of your current CDP + £XXX give a better sound than attaching a DAC costing £XXX to your current CDP, where £XXX is any figure you care to think of. I suspect the answer is, 'it varies', which is not a great answer, but it's probably the truest one.

 

[cannibal_ox77]

You could get a good 2nd hand stereo amp with power amp inputs to avoid swapping speaker cables around...a £200-£400 addition probably which will be a lot cheaper than upgrading to the arcam and you're practically guaranteed to get better sound than the AV receiver currently gives you. I'm in the same boat as you with a family-first setup as a compromise, looking to add marantz pearl lite, creek a50 or arcam a19 to my set up sometime very soon (payday i hope!)

 

[Overdose]

It seems to me from your posts, that you are entirely happy with your system. Why not save your cash until you have enough to invest in better speakers. These will give a greater benefit than a DAC ever will.

 

[dayglowred7]

Hi all , The speakers I have I like so thats debatable whether better speakers would give me a better stereo sound , its first and foremost a sound whch I want from my cd player as thats the source of my music , using GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT PHRASE. . Whether I can get the best sound possible from my amp in stereo is another , using analogue direct mode is too bright , and I have to switch to 2 channel and have the subwoofer help with the bass , It does make a big difference and brings a little more balance to the whole sound.

My family share this system and thats where the compromises start I have to please everyone.

For the outlay on the system I have tried to keep eveything at a reasonable price level , main outlay was actually the amp ,cd player next expensive followed by the speakers and cabling .

Just want to know for future reference best way of getting a really good musical stereo set up , all be it from an AV amp.

Please also note the awrd the amp won here at WHAT Hi - Fi , STEREO being a typical good performance was what as said.

So have I reached the pinnacle that this system has to offer , or start a complete upgrade path costing shed loads , before I see improvement.

 

[dayglowred7]

Hi all , The speakers I have I like so thats debatable whether better speakers would give me a better stereo sound , its first and foremost a sound whch I want from my cd player as thats the source of my music , using GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT PHRASE. . Whether I can get the best sound possible from my amp in stereo is another , using analogue direct mode is too bright , and I have to switch to 2 channel and have the subwoofer help with the bass , It does make a big difference and brings a little more balance to the whole sound.

My family share this system and thats where the compromises start I have to please everyone.

For the outlay on the system I have tried to keep eveything at a reasonable price level , main outlay was actually the amp ,cd player next expensive followed by the speakers and cabling .

Just want to know for future reference best way of getting a really good musical stereo set up , all be it from an AV amp.

Please also note the awrd the amp won here at WHAT Hi - Fi , STEREO being a typical good performance was what as said.

So have I reached the pinnacle that this system has to offer , or start a complete upgrade path costing shed loads , before I see improvement.

 

[BigH]

I think that went out about 10 or so years ago and may have applied to turntables but cd players are similar and you will have to spend a lot of money to get a small increase in SQ, IMHO.

Speakers will change the sound more than cdps, just have a demo swap a few cdp around and then change the speakers.

 

[davedotco]

I remain totally convinced that the GIGO principle is still extremely sound.

Given that the source is of the required standard then the amplifier is very much the next in terms of priority.

Different speakers may change the sound considerably but in my view this is mainly a matter of presentation, the speaker's capability is a somewhat different matter and will only be fully realised when driven by a decent amplifier.

In the OP's case the playback system is a 'family' a/v system with all the limitations that implies, not really sure there is anywhere really to go with this setup.

 

[dayglowred7]

Thanks BigH , But for me GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT , still stands you would'nt connect a £70 cd player to a 1k amp and speakers , so I do still stand by the phrase .

Ugarding the cd and apeakers are going to leave me still needing a new amp , as that surely be the weakest link then.

But then what do I buy , go for high end and be happy for years or be sensible and always be wanting.

What was high end a while back that might make a descerning buy now .Marantz , Meridain , Naim etc

any suggestions for this line of enquiry.

 

[cse]

Thanks BigH , But for me GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT , still stands you would'nt connect a £70 cd player to a 1k amp and speakers , so I do still stand by the phrase .

I think this is only true up to a point. Firstly, you can't really buy a £70 Cd player. However, the cheapest Cd player with a good amp and speakers is going to produce an excellent sound. This is proved when Andrew went back to listen to the very first Cd players from Philips and Sony and found the sound to be very pleasing, played through current high-end gear. Lacking some detail, but still very good. This is because all cd players are capable of prducing a very good sound. Your Cd player would benefit massively from a big upgrade in speakers and then amp. Finally, you could think about a better Cd player. No cd player is a garbage source, whereas a cassette deck maybe!

 

[Al ears]

davedotco - I rest my case. Best he just buys more 'music'

Oh and for your info cse, there is no way a good cassette deck's output can be described as 'garbage'.

 

[pmconcierge]

You could also get an intergrated amp. A lot of amps can be used in this way but not all so use a bit of caution. This will improve the stereo sound and the front speakers will sound better when using the surround sound from your av amp. You could also go for the rotel ra12 which has loads of connections. If you don't want all the connections a rega brio r should help. A further advantage of this is that if you would like good music in a second room you just need a new pair of speakers. Finally, and most controversially, you could upgrade the cable! Many people disagree but I find that the cable can make a difference and it may be a nice stop gap to a fuller more planned (and expensive >) ) upgrade! Have fun though. £600 spent in a number of ways will make a big difference to the sound. I would shy away from a dac personally though. The weak point in the sound is currently the amp ( or possibly the speakers as I don't know what you have) so that is what I would focus on.

 

[davedotco]

davedotco - I rest my case. Best he just buys more 'music' Oh and for your info cse, there is no way a good cassette deck's output can be described as 'garbage'.

Nah.

Take your girlfriend out for a few drinks and a bit of 'fun'. Try and involve some live music, even a decent pub band will do.

:rockout: :rockout: