DAC experts please: which hi-def music on which DACs?

[AlmaataKZ]

Folks,

I have been exploring linn records and naim music looking at their hi-res music downloads. The question is which of the formats will play on which dacs and which inputs? e.g. I hear that USB inputs have native limit on max bit length or sampling rate or both? right?

or in other words if I download a 24 bit 48kHz or higher track in Aiff or waw and play it from PC+ituens via USB on Chordette Gem (or another PC/input/DAC combination), would I be realising the max potential of the tracks?

Thanks

 

[AL13N]

Via the Chordette Gem, yes, as it accepts 24/96 via USB. As does the Benchmark DAC1. However, most DACs only accept 16/48 via USB. Just check the specifications on the manufacturers website or email them.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Thanks, AL13N, sure, will be checkign the specs, but...

e.g. an album on naim site is available in 16/44.1 or 24bit/48khz and if a DAC has 16/48 max (as in above example) what happnes if it is fed with 24/48 track? what happens if the bps part is above spec and what happens if the sampling rate is above speck and if both are above spec?

in each of these cases will the DAC not play at all or will it just play "at the lower resolution"?

 

[AL13N]

Again, it depends on the DAC. Some will refuse to playback, others will downsample in order to playback.

For native playback via USB the highest rate possible is 24/96. If you want 176.4 or 192khz your only options are (mini)Toslink or Coax.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

AL13N:Via the Chordette Gem, yes, as it accepts 24/96 via USB. As does the Benchmark DAC1. However, most DACs only accept 16/48 via USB. Just check the specifications on the manufacturers website or email them.

Worth noting, through iTunes, does it playback bit perfect?

 

[AL13N]

iTunes on a mac, yes. iTunes on a PC, no. The latter requires some tinkering for bit perfect output.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Ah, that's interesting...

so what is the max I can get out of a PC and itues via usb bit perfect? or does it not play anyting bit-perfect?

 

[AL13N]

For relatively simple bitperfect output using a PC, try foobar2000/WASAPI for Windows Vista/7 or foobar2000/ASIO4ALL on Windows XP.

It can be customised infinitely, so you can even get it to look like iTunes in terms of the interface.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Thanks, AL13N. so tinkerinc is a software solution, not hardware.

I am only entering this whole digital playback and DACs world and it helps a lot (with your help) to get the things right from the source to the speaker. I will check out the foobar.

 

[AL13N]

Google "ASIO4ALL"+"headfi"

There's a great (and simple) tutorial for setting it up with foobar2000 and WinAmp for bitperfect output via USB DAC.

Also check the Wavelength (usbdacs) website and the Benchmark wiki.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

thanks a lot! I have only been looking into this streaming thing for about a week but already I have been blown away with the sound quality improvement from switching from analog pc/ipod output to dac (good res tracks - itunes - chordette gem). what have I been doing all this time!!!?

so, (on WinXP) to get bit perfect output (and a further (! )sound quality improvement?) I need to get the foobar and asio? right? or is it foobar and wasapi or either?

and the alternative to the above to get bit perfect out is just use a mac, right?

also from this forum sound like itunes can still beused for importing and organising files and foobar for playback (at least initially, while still learnign the ropes with foobar)...

 

[AL13N]

With XP, as far as I know, your only option out of the two is ASIO4ALL. You need Vista or 7 for WASAPI.

A mac used to be the only alternative. Check out the Sony VAIO range and the HP Touchsmart. The VAIO JS4EF has proper Toslink out (not mini Toslink) with sample rates of 44.1/48.0/96khz (so no 88.2khz like the mac). The Touchsmart has Coaxial output! though not sure about the supported sample rates.

And yes, the iTunes/foobar combo is used for the interface of one and flexibility of the other. However, you can customize foobar infinitely, and quite easily, to give you the same visual benefit as well.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

AlmaataKZ:
thanks a lot! I have only been looking into this streaming thing for about a week but already I have been blown away with the sound quality improvement from switching to analog pc/ipod output to dac (good res tracks - itunes - chordette gem). what have I been doing all this time!!!?

so, (on WinXP) to get bit perfect output (and a further (! )sound quality improvement?) I need to get the foobar and asio? right? or is it foobar and wasapi or either?

and the alternative to the above to get bit perfect out is just use a mac, right?

also from this forum sound like itunes can still beused for importing and organising files and foobar for playback (at least initially, while still learnign the ropes with foobar)...

You are not limited to just Foobar. In fact Ive just started using J River media center which is superb and ASIO and WASAPI are integrated so no need to download the plugins. There is a free 30 day trial and then it's $49.50 or the audio only jukebox version is free.

 

[AL13N]

Another very interesting source for information on DACs and High Res Downloads is the computeraudiophile website.

Type CA01, CA02, CA03, CA04 in the top left search box for some interesting system ideas.

Also, using your Chordette Gem, set the output at 24bit for all sample rates. So if sending a 16/44.1 file (CDrip) you'd send it as 24/44.1. There are many that say this makes a difference, so give it a try with your ears.

Good Luck

 

[AL13N]

Gerrardasnails:
"You are not limited to just Foobar. In fact Ive just started using J River media center which is superb and ASIO and WASAPI are integrated so no need to download the plugins. There is a free 30 day trial and then it's $49.50 or the audio only jukebox version is free."

Agreed. And being used to iTunes, you'll love the interface/simplicity as well. A great bit of software.

For simple step-by-step setup, go to the usbdacs website and click on the Windows tab at the top of the page. For XP you still need to install an ASIO driver (ASIO4ALL) to bypass the KMIXER. (See my post above for ASIO4ALL setup)

I personally use foobar2000 for the simplicity - I'm not even using any cover art, and it takes up far less resources on my (ancient dinosaur of a) laptop than WinAmp.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Thanks, gents, will dig through it.

edit:

reading and digesting it... i really have to catch up on things, I am so behind... already thinking I may need to re-distribute my budget for hifi upgrades... less on speakers etc, more for pc/mac + dac/preamp...?

slightly confused on one point: for "bit perfect" on XP, do I have to use foobar+asio or can it be itunes+asio (and non-issue at all for Win7)?

hesitating between PC and mac as platfom for a music-dedicate computer.

 

[AL13N]

On Windows XP it has to be foobar2000/Winamp/MediaMonkey/J River Media Centre with ASIO4ALL.

Windows 7 is supposed to have direct (bitperfect) output, but I'd wait and read more on it before committing. If you are going to buy a brand new platform (PC/mac) hold off and do some research first. No need to rush things.

For now you should get excellent results for free via:

XP > Exact Audio Copy > foobar2000 > ASIO4ALL > Chordette Gem

Like I said before, Google "ASIO4ALL"+"headfi" and click on the first link for step-by-step setup. Real easy. Then just sit back and enjoy the music

 

[AL13N]

Also, there is another way to bypass the KMIXER in XP without using ASIO4ALL.

Go to the usbdacs website, click on the Windows tab at the top and scroll down for more info. Extremely easy and again free, so you could try both to see if you hear a difference.

If you do want to go the mac root, go to computeraudiophile and in the search box (top left) type CA01. Click the first link then just scroll down and follow the instructions. (You can also type CA02, CA03 for more expensive options or CA04 for a PC option that actually uses iTunes). IMO your DAC is better than the ones in CA01 and CA02.

Good Luck

 

[AlmaataKZ]

AL13N,

I read all the references you advised after your first post (again, thanks a lot!) and from these I figured that for XP the only bitperfect solution is ASIO which as I also understood required foobar (or similar), and asio did not work with itunes. But after your last post I am definately confused: I checked the usbdacs guide for windows and tried unmapping the usb device (this is one of the solutions recommended to try, although I did not understand how you can avoid kmixer by unmapping the usb device and mapping throug kmixer, surely you want to map around it, not through it) - the dac did not play at all after that. i do not see any other solutions there - the screenshots do not look like XP and the site actually says if you have xp - upgrade to vista...

while you suggest it is possible, after reading carefully the pointers I canot find where a way to bypass kmixer in xp+itunes is described on usbdacs. am I missing something?

 

[PJPro]

There is also the guides in my useful posts (see signature) which will provide you with the information your require to setup bit-perfect playback and HCI configuration with foobar2000.

 

[AL13N]

AlmaataKZ:
"while you suggest it is possible, after reading carefully the pointers I canot find where a way to bypass kmixer in xp+itunes is described on usbdacs. am I missing something?"

Sorry, my bad

It is Vista not XP. ASIO is the only option then (though nothing wrong with that). Seriously though, with foobar2000/ASIO4ALL and your brilliant Chordette Gem, you should be sorted for some time sound wise. And definately check out PJPro's posts.

PJPro:
"There is also the guides in my useful posts (see signature) which will provide you with the information your require to setup bit-perfect playback and HCI configuration with foobar2000."

Can't believe I forgot to mention that! BTW loving the pics of your foobar2000 setup. Cooler and more practical than iTunes in my book.

 

[pete321]

AL13N: Windows 7 is supposed to have direct (bitperfect) output, but I'd wait and read more on it before committing.

I haven't been able to bit perfect using WMP on Windows 7 x64, I'm having to use FB2000 to get bit perfect.