Custom listening room - advice needed?

[admin_exported]

Hi All,

I'm in the process of building a custom listening/viewing room in my cellar (very small - about 3 x 4m with a 1.8m ceiling).

I've run a dedicated spur from the distribution board down to there - but I've read on another forum that I should put a mini circuit breaker rather than an RCD - does this make a big difference? And will plugging the amp into the same spur as the source make a difference?

I've put sound insulation behind the plasterboard on the walls and ceilings, but it is still a rectangular box - any advice about improving the acoustic character of the room?

Finally, I have underfloor heating, but have left the "front" metre of the room with a solid concrete slab. I am now looking at floor coverings, should I leave the bit where the systems and speakers will stand as bare concrete? Or can I put rugs/carpet over this area as well as the rest of the room.

I haven't yet bought the system that will live there, but it will be a reasonably good one (I have included £10k in the budget for a brand new system - all included)

The NauimUniti I have will be in my living room upstairs.

All and any opinions welcome.

Thanks

David

 

[Anonymous]

He there,

If it were me I would have carpet with a good underlay over the entire floor. The speakers and AV hifi equipment can be isolated from the carpet with spikes. Your choise of furniture is important. Try and go for cloth or soft furnished seating and place cusions or bean bags in the corners to stop standing waves. Even wall hangings such as rugs or tapestry will make a huge difference as well.

Any way good luck

and wow what a budget......! can I come round for the grand opening..... Iwill bring popcorn.

D

 

[Anonymous]

It's a good sized budget. I've managed to incorporate it in the other house alterations that I'm doing at the same time, bank manager didn't even seem to notice!

It does bring it's own problems - where do you start the selection process? So many choices at that level and I've been out of the market for so long as you can see from my system.

D

 

[Anonymous]

Again if it were me I would start by trying to find some speakers that might be suitible for a room that size.......

I.e

[*]DAli Fazon's 5.1.......approx £1700
[*]B and W MT 30........approx £1500
[*]Monitor Audio Radius.............approx £1300.

check out Kef as well and Focal 500 are good as well

These sort of packages are maybe suitible in your budjet...depending on if you go for a projector and screen......or a televsion.

D

 

[Anonymous]

Then you could look at Home cinema Amplifiers. Maybe the SonySTR DA5400es..................£1500

Projector: JVC DLA HD 350 £3000

Blue-ray player..........Sony BDP-S5000es £1100

thats £7000 so far

Then some spare for cables .... interconnects...... some besoke cinema seating.....etc.

Its really easy spending other peoples money...

Any way I am sure you will get lots of suggestions from others.........hope this is of help.

D

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry yes you needed stereo listening as well. You will have to build your own sofa!

Amp Cyrus 8XP £1250

Cyrus CD6 SE £900

ATC SCM11 £870

job done.....................

I guess a good dealer might do you a really good deal on all that kit.

 

[Anonymous]

But...

I've already got a really good Panasonic 42" Plasma, and I've had various people tell me that I'd be better off with a really good stereo that having 5.1 sound in such a small room. So for the tele I think I'll wait until this 3D and 4K2K thing sorts itself out.

The thought I had was to maybe spend 5 - 6k on a really nice stereo outfit and then live with it a bit and decide whether I want to upgrade it or add AV processing and surround speakers.

Since I got the NaimUniti for my apartment in Eindhoven (where I'm working at the moment) I'm really impressed with Naim stuff, so I guess that's where I'll start.

D

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry got it all around the wrong way.

for me another member has a great system for that kind of budget..... he is Craig M

Chord QBD76, ATC SIA2-150, ATC SCM19

you could run a computer and or Cd player as the source.

have a look at his post in The Forum Heading " Your System".

This to me is perfect........

 

[Anonymous]

Not sure if this is the answer you are looking for but I have a 3 x 4 cellar. I have my 50" plasma along the back wall with a PS3, Lector CD Player, Graaf GM50 Amp and Art Emotion speakers, the sound is fabulous for movies and of course music. A big budget for a small room but it works.

 

[JoelSim]

wickerman68:Not sure if this is the answer you are looking for but I have a 3 x 4 cellar. I have my 50" plasma along the back wall with a PS3, Lector CD Player, Graaf GM50 Amp and Art Emotion speakers, the sound is fabulous for movies and of course music. A big budget for a small room but it works.

Sounds v nice, much rather something like this than the Cyrus. Or have a look at Unison Research, smooth as you like.

 

[Anonymous]

wickerman68:Not sure if this is the answer you are looking for but I have a 3 x 4 cellar. I have my 50" plasma along the back wall with a PS3, Lector CD Player, Graaf GM50 Amp and Art Emotion speakers, the sound is fabulous for movies and of course music. A big budget for a small room but it works.

Exactly what I'm looking for - do you have any photos of your set-up? I'd especially like to know what you did to stop the room reverberating like the small box that it is.

 

[Anonymous]

The advice I gave you above really was good advice......You could also google many a page on room acoustics.....but whatever

good luck

 

[Anonymous]

regarding the accoustics of your room,depending on how far you want to go of course and how much you want to do yourself(its well within the d.i.y),i have mentioned it before on this forum and in your case i strongly recommed it,a book called GET BETTER SOUND by Jim Smith,his website is same as book name,it has all the info in that you require in an easy to understand and implement format,i know because its worked wonders for my room(it was very lively),if you dont want to buy book,then i advise the following - the areas to treat,and you will have to experiment,are the first reflection points on walls from speakers to listening position,you will need a mirror and someone to help,sit in listening seat,hold mirror flat to wall and move until you can see tweeter refection in mirror,do both side walls,this is first reflection point and the first area to treat,you will probably have to use sound absorbant foam here(it can be purchased supprisingly cheaply),you can go too far with it and deaden the room so i advise sticking it to a board with velcro so you can add or subtract as required(you will be amazed at the difference it can make), - secondly,the most difficult thing to get right in your room is the bass(thats in any room by the way),bass will bounce around the room and be most affected in the corners,so the corners are the next area to treat,absorbtion material doesnt always work here but a bass trap will,its like a round freestanding cylinder,alternatively you can use a silk tree(an imitation tree made with silk leaves),these are more attractive to look at and work quite well(and dont need water or pruning!),they need to be bushy/dense and of correct height of course, - thirdly,the reflection point on the floor between the listening chair and speakers,this ones easier,a good wool rug works very well here placed in the correct position,you can go to far with these treatments so you have to experiment a bit,but you will have the satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself,it wont cost much and will only need your time and ears to implement,and you WILL end up with a more enjoyable hifi experience,these are the most important basic steps ive outlined here,ive used them myself and i know it works,but as i stated earlier the book by jim goes into more detail and can offer you more help than i can here and there are excellent speaker set up information and tips for improving bass and the enjoyment of music,so i urge you to buy the book,i wont give you any tips for buying you hifi,thats your choice however be careful because your room is small and too much bass will create a big problem for you,i have a large dedicated room myself(i live on my own) and thought i had set up my speakers well and had good sound,i have good electronics and took a chance buying the book,its cheap by the way,im always striving and experimenting trying to improve my sound,but the tips in the book have made the biggest improvement ever,if you want any further info please fell free to ask,i dont have my own computer however,i hate them,i use my mums!,so i only get chance to check what hifi forum once a week,so i may not be able to answer too quickly,or put up a post asking for contact,enjoy yourself and your music,regards stephen shepherd.

 

[Anonymous]

brittondave:
The advice I gave you above really was good advice......You could also google many a page on room acoustics.....but whatever

good luck

Sorry Dave, I didn't thank you for that, I like the idea of the beanbags, in fact, given the stairs down to the cellar I think that may be the only thing I can get down there to sit on. I'm talking to the heating guy about the carpet and underlay - he's telling me that it is not necessarily the best thing with the underfloor heating, he's suggesting some sort of hard covering with rugs.

Do you think that a projector would be overkill in this size room?

David

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Steve,

I've ordered the white paper - I'll take a look. Thanks for the advice I think there's a few things I can work with. d]Do we know a good source for acoustic foam?

D

 

[Anonymous]

If it's not too late, try to make sure the walls are not exactly parallel (or are not sound reflective), otherwise you'll end up with flutter echoes (which can sound quite cool, but are a total nightmare).

 

[Anonymous]

Hi ffish,

A bit too late - although it is an old Victorian house, so the chances of the walls being exactly parallel are pretty remote. I am putting floor to ceiling shelving on one wall to house my CD/DVD/LP collection and an acoustic panel on the rear and other side wall to work on absorption. Hopefully this will take care of the flutter echo (whatever that is!).

Should I put something on the front wall, behind the speakers? At the moment it is just bare plaster.

Thanks

David

 

[Anonymous]

Quick way to test for a flutter echo is to clap once very loudly; if you hear a series of reverberations (i.e. a series of very quick echoes of the clap going tktktktktktktktkt), then you have a flutter echo. With a room your size it would be a very quick reverberation so shouldn't be too intrusive, but could be noticeable on isolated impact sounds.

The shelving and CDs should help disperse sound on the back wall; plaster is quite reflective, but that hopefully shouldn't be a problem behind the speakers (most concert halls are designed with reflective materials on the walls behind the platform for example), but you won't be able to tell until you try it out!

 

[Anonymous]

On another issue - when you tried your Cyrus stuff did you compare them with Naim? Any observations? (Have a look at my other post - how to audition?)

Thanks

D

 

[Anonymous]

Yes I did, though in a different shop, and therefore not side by side. I enjoyed the Naim kit a lot (tried the 5i CD and amp combo, with B&W 683s). They had a very well-balanced sound, and worked well with all types of music (much preferred to the Roksan combo and the Primare combo), but ultimately was pipped by the Cyrus which just blew both me and my wife away with the level detail and clarity, particularly with small scale chamber music and piano music. I came very close to getting the Naim pair though.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks ffish, I will certainly give them a listen. What was the deciding factor if they were that close?

I've had a bit of bias against Cyrus from the days when I was auditioning my old system. I listened to a Cyrus sytem back then (no idea what it was) and compared it to the Audiolab 8000A and an Arcam Alpha CD player (we're going back 15 years now and I don't remember the details).

I took against the Cyrus because I didn't like it as much as the Audiolab/Arcam, and the dealer really tried to sell it to me. It's funny how these prejudices start!

D