Crossover frequency ???

[admin_exported]

Hi!

I can say that I'm still learning, and still don't know all the basics related to hi-fi and home cinema. Therefore, I would appreciate your help.
In the past one year I bought Onkyo TX-SR508 receiver (7.1), complete set of PSB Alpha speakers (T1, C1, B1) and Energy S10.3 subwoofer. Front speaker (T1) are bi-amped so my set is connected as 5.1 system out of 7.1 receiver.

After Audyssey calibration was performed, the crossover frequency of all speakers was set to 50 Hz. The crossover frequency on the sub (physically) is set to 70 Hz. The cone diameter of the all speaker woofers is 13 cm. According to onkyo manual, speakers below 16 cm should be set as 'small'. According to the onkyo manual, 'small' speakers up to 13 cm should have crossover frequency set to 100 Hz.

I really don't understand all behind crossover frequency. Is 70 Hz OK for the sub? Should I set crossover frequency of all other speakers to 80 or 100 Hz or leave it on 50 Hz (as is was set automatically after audissey calibration)?

What do you think?

The frequency response of my front T1 speakers is 55-23000 Hz.

Thank you in advance.
Regards
NB

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'm not familiar with your speakers, so I couldn't say for certain, but Onkyo's recommendation seems pretty solid.

Personally, I prefer all speakers to share the same crossover frequency so that they're all "singing from the same song book", if you know what I mean. I've never really felt that multiple crossover points for different speakers produce a consistent soundfield. It all helps. The crossover point for the sub will be the same as the speakers, although many will recommend a 10Hz overlap as its not usually a 'brick wall' cut off - so if the speakers are 70Hz, the sub should be about 80Hz.

If in doubt, 80Hz is a good starting point.

 

[RickyDeg]

I understand you concern, these issues of crossover frequencies can be confusing. I'm a bit surprised Onkyo describes things that way in the manual though. Setting the cut-off point of your speakers doesnt have to have anything to do with the physical size, per say, but rather how low they can perform and particularly how they perform in your room. Some perfer to set cut-off frequency to 80Hz even if they happen to have large floorstanders that can play alot lower. This is often due to the fact that it lessens the stress on the receiver, can yield a better blend between speakers and subwoofer and play with more 'ease' in your room. But that doesnt work for everyone. Normally Audussey measures how the speakers actually performs in your room, regardless of their physical size or how they are rated by the manufacturer. If you like what Audussey does or not is personal though.

If you would like to experiment I would suggest setting all speakers to 'smal' with cut-off at 80Hz (including the subwoofer) in the receiver (and make sure the subwoofer does NOT have its own cut-off frequency activated to avoid DOUBLE filtering - something your receiver should handle!). Then after that simply work your way upwards or downwards, but not stray too far in either direction to what Audussey have done. Also remember, the room calibration system in Audussey MultEQ only corrects low-frequencies down to the lowest cut-off point it has set the speaker too, anything lower has not been corrected. Doesnt mean you still cant get good results though. But all this is very system- and room-dependant. And ofcourse, your personal taste is the key here aswell.

Make sure you follow Audussey recommendations carefully aswell - do the multiple measuring points (up to 8?) and use a tripod (dont use anything else for the measuring-mic as it can yeild unaccuracy in the measurements!).

I would advice that you study Audyssey more carefully, read their FAQ, blogs and also contact them to get some tips! Their website is great for this purpose! www.audyssey.com

 

[Anonymous]

As mentioned above, you should either switch off the crossover on the sub, or if it doesn't have that option, set it to maximum. The AV amp will handle that (assuming you are using the LFE output).

I found setting the speakers to small whatever size improved things tho, even if auto setup said "large", especially for bass-heavy music - the sub now handles everything below 80 Hz... Seemed to improve overall clarity quite a bit. But you shudl have a play with lots of settings to see what works for you

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for advices!

 

[Anonymous]

...I would suggest setting all speakers to 'smal' with cut-off at 80Hz (including the subwoofer) in the receiver (and make sure the subwoofer does NOT have its own cut-off frequency activated to avoid DOUBLE filtering - something your receiver should handle!)...

I'm really not sure how to set up my sub. This information is from the manual: Select either the X-Over Mode (A) or (B) (#6). The X-Over Mode (A) “Crossover Activated” switch position should be used when connecting your ENERGY® subwoofer to a receiver without bass management or when you wish to manually control the crossover and volume settings (such as in a music system). The X-Over Mode (B) “Crossover Bypassed” switch position should be used when connecting to a receiver with bass management (such as in a digital surround sound movie system). This connection defeats the crossover feature on the ENERGY® subwoofer, allowing this control to be handled by the receiver.
Adjusting the front panel Volume Control (#1) will still be required. In onkyo options I don't have possibility to change crossover frequency of each speaker. There is indication that subwoofer is present (Yes), all speakers are set to 'small', and crossover is set to 80 Hz. I'm not sure if this 80 Hz are also related to sub, or I have to manually (on the back of the subwoofer) set the sub cross. frequency. If I should do that manually then I have to use 'A' mode (see above). I was thinking to set the speaker CF to 70, and sub frequency to 80 Hz with the X-Over mode (A). In that case the speakers would handle the sound from 70 Hz, and sub up to 80 Hz. Is this OK? What do you suggest? Should I use X-over mode (B).??? Really not sure. Please help.

Thank you. Regards AN

 

[Anonymous]

NovoB,

You'll be connecting from the LFE output on the Onkyo (sometimes marked Subwoofer) into the AVR, so switch the X-Over Mode (B) to “Crossover Bypassed”.

For your speakers you should check their specification for frequency range, as you don't want to set the AVR speaker settings lower than their specified range. My speakers range from 80Hz upwards, so I have mine set to 80Hz on my Onkyo (note that Onkyo do not use 'small' for speakers, just their frequency setting).

Incidentally, I performed the Onkyo Audyssey auto set up and it got the rear speaker distances wrong and the frequencies were inconsistent (although all are of the same type), and according to an answer from Audyssey this was because I have one rear speaker near a side-wall and the other rear speaker in open space to one side, which means that the sound reaching the setup mic is quite different; so there is no problem in changing distances and frequencies manually after the auto setup, as its not a big part of what Audyssey does the most important part being the room correction filters.

Audyssey set my crossover frequency to 120hz, which is the general recommendation anyway from Audyssey, as you would normally set it to 120Hz to make sure you receive all the information that the producers intended to put in the LFE channel.

Hope this helps.

Paul.

 

[Anonymous]

For your speakers you should check their specification for frequency range, as you don't want to set the AVR speaker settings lower than their specified range. My speakers range from 80Hz upwards, so I have mine set to 80Hz on my Onkyo (note that Onkyo do not use 'small' for speakers, just their frequency setting).

Hi Paul. Thank you very much. As I sad on my first post, I'm still learning and I'm not really familiar with complete technical specification. I'm not sure that I can read the specification in the right way. If is is not a problem, please be so kind and take a look (I have T1, C1, and B1 speakers.):

http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/111117124156-PSB_Alpha_Series_English_Specifications.pdf

Accoring to the specification, which crossover frequency should I use?

Thank you in advance.

BR

AN

 

[RickyDeg]

As mentioned before you should definitely start by setting your subwoofer to 'B' (Crossover Bypassed) otherwise you'd be using two crossover-filters (one in the subwoofer + one in the receiver) and that is not ideal. In doing so you can totally ignore the crossover control knob on the subwoofer itself as it will have no effect and is no longer of any interest - the crossover should be handled by your receiver only!

Crossover is simply a cut-off point to how deep your speakers should play in terms of low-frequencies (bass). Example: if the setting becomes 80Hz for your speakers, then the receiver will re-direct all frequencies under 80Hz to your subwoofer and it will handle that reproduction, taking "the load" off your receiver and speakers. Just be careful to not set the crossover too high or to low - it should have a natural blend. This is often where Audyssey can do a decent job. Like I said before, if you carry out the measurements carefully it will read off how your speakers perform in your particular room, regardless of what the manufacturer says about their speakers. But in the end its always your personal preference that matters most. Trust your ears.

I had a look at the technical specification and my personal choice would likely be to set all to 80Hz and see where that gets you. I'm curious to know what Audyssey set when you measure? Does it not sound good or natural to your ears? Just remember that you can still change the crossover cutoff in the menu of the Onkyo afterwards. You have to experiment.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you again. This was helpful and now all makes sense.

 

[Anonymous]

Dear Novob,

Always remember that we are all still learning. Nobody knows it all particularly nowadays with specs and products changing at an alarming rate. One thing you can be sure of is that, 'the person who knows it all', doesn't.

As others have said, trust your ears, only you know what you like and how you like it. Use the tech to guide you and experiment till you are absolutely happy. Then in a few weeks/months you will tweak and tweak again as you learn more about what your ears most enjoy.

Happy experimentation,

 

[RickyDeg]

...trust your ears, only you know what you like and how you like it. Use the tech to guide you and experiment till you are absolutely happy. Then in a few weeks/months you will tweak and tweak again as you learn more about what your ears most enjoy...

Best advice anyone could give!

 

[Sliced Bread]

I agree with previous posts suggesting that you trust your ears, and I'd like to add not to trust Audysseys calibration as correct.

I have run Audyssey in my living room a number of times and it is convinced my small rear speakers are full-range, which they are not.