Consistency problems...

[admin_exported]

Right is it me or has anyone else over the last few months and thats being polite noticed that What Hi-Fi seems to be sliping away from what i can gather is its original idea. To me now its like reading a more grown up version of Stuff magazine, i don't care how good a mobile phones camera or storage abilities are because number one if i want to take a good picture i will use a proper camera and if i want to listen to music i will listen to music on an mp3 player or my own stereo.

I know the magazine needs to seel copies and hi-fi to be fair isn't going to shift copies off the shelf but i think you seem to be losing sight of the goal. Emulating what Stuff magazine does in my opinion is'nt going to get you anywhere, people who buy stuff may not generally buy what hifi and it seems now a days most people buy the magazine to check out whether the tv they is a good one or not.

I think this is down to trends and the publisher pushing you for sales so i understand that you have to sell a certain amount of magazines but i think you are alienating the people that have bought the magazine over the last few years. You should be established enough to do your own thing rather than emulate what a more successful younger sibling is doing, stick to your guns a bit more!!!

 

[Thaiman]

Stuffs Mag and WHF are related but not quite a twin sister! my little brother buy stuff and I buy WHF and I can see where you coming from!

However, WHF still (I think) the best selling home entertainment magazine in the world which does say something about "Head of Editor's decision to include the test of anything that you would class as home entertainment.
Personally I thought the mag was going down hill many years ago when they decide to join home cinema and Hifi into one mag, How wrong was I? If anything I guess WHF is selling more copies than ever.....What they can't do is, however, to please everybody, unfortunately.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh by the way excuse my typing...i know its rubbish!!! Ok thats a fair point but to my eyes the gap between WHF and Stuff is far too close. I don't want WHF to please everyone and i'm just one person but some of the problems i have with the magazine is that with their reviews for example are debatable, i feel not enough time is spent breaking the subject matter down, i know not everyone understands graphs but when speakers have been measured this gives a clear indication of how they really handle things. Its like reading a review on a piece of fine art...totally subjective and in some cases is out of sink with the other hi-fi mags its hard to know what is governing the reviews.

I totally agree with you about WHF and Home Cinema but all this stuff on mobile phones and i-docs...I know ipods and the like are popular but at the end of the day, mp3 is compressed music, its never going to sound amazing but week in and week out i find that there is too much emphasis on this subject area...when technically speaking it is nowhere near hi-fi.

 

[SouthaK]

I agree with the original post. A super test on mobile phones that play mp3's? For God's sake! Leave it alone, there are dozens of websites dedicated to such things that post reviews within days of these things being released.

Additionally reviewing mobile phones is fraught with danger - what if the recommended phone isn't available on a particular network? Are they going to review four phones per network or four phones per tariff?

While I'm on my high horse, does the constant use of colloquialism's wind up anyone else? You've gotta love 'em!?! Headphones become "'phones" or "cans", CD players become "disc spinners". Please, act you age WHF! Word.

Doesn't it all smack of a desperate attempt by WHF to be relevant to the "yoof" or to make it's readers that they are?

Bring back "Ten to end" I say!

SouthaK

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with the original post too and i'm a subscriber. Mobile phones belong in Stuff and not What Hi Fi. Please don't dumb the mag down to suit everyone and their pets.

R

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with you guys totally, but it's not gonna happen. Apparently that's not the way to make it to the top at Haymarket.

It seems that you can get on the fast lane by increasing the amount of ads, create sensational headlines, never minding the facts, ignore hard core readers to gain any new readership, well done Ms. Newsome ! ( I hope you are enjoying your perk while your staff has to make lame excuses )

As they have clearly stated they rather be News of the World than The Times. It's not going to happen.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="susanoo"]

I agree with you guys totally, but it's not gonna happen. Apparently that's not the way to make it to the top at Haymarket.

It
seems that you can get on the fast lane by increasing the amount of
ads, create sensational headlines, never minding the facts, ignore hard
core readers to gain any new readership, well done Ms. Newsome ! ( I
hope you are enjoying your perk while your staff has to make lame
excuses )

As they have clearly stated they rather be News of the World than The Times. It's not going to happen.

[/quote]

What a bitter, twisted person you are. You seem to think you have a real insight into the way the company works, and yet you don't, and if you had even a clue you'd know Clare isn't enjoiying a perk, but working extremely hard.

I think it's time you revealed why you have such an axe to grind about the magazine.

 

[Anonymous]

Folks, a good friend of mine in this industry once told me his perspective of our magazine. He told me 'our business is the music - we should go wherever that goes'. By that, he was alluding to the growth in significance of MP3, and how we had to cover it (in his view) because whatever its hi-fi credentials, it represented a valid source of music, much like any other.

Look, this is the thing. I've worked on this magazine for twelve years, and been a regular reader for over twenty. At every point in that time, there's always been some controversy over the editorial coverage of the magazine. In my time, I've seen us roundly criticised for reviewing CD players (some of you may remember the disdain audiophiles once reserved for such equipment), then for looking at midi, mini and micro systems, and then for recognizing DAT, DCC and MiniDisc as valid music sources. More recently, the same controversy has surrounded DAB -ÿand that's before we even begin to open the can of worms that is home cinema. And I dare say back in the magazine's early days, much the same invective was being levelled at compact cassette.

The point is this: we have to cover every type of music (and movie) source. It's our job. It's what we do. It's what we exist for. So in one issue of the magazine, you might find a high-end turntable rubbing shoulders with an MP3 phone - not because we consider one music source to be more valid than the other, but because both are available to the consumer. And before anyone asks - yes, if said MP3 phones are rubbish, and not worth the money (or contract, or whatever) then we'll say so, much as we've done in times past with LCD TVs and other nascent technologies. However, given the amount of effort being expended on the concept by giant concerns like Apple and Nokia, don't be surprised if MP3 phones become more rather than less significant in the years to come. Oh, and to the reader that posted a (valid) comment about contracts and so forth: that's not our domain. We're interested in their media capabilities. We'll assess their basic functionality as telephones, but our core business is, as it always has been, sound and vision quality.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd like to point out that I do not agree with Susanoo's views.

R

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="hifi_nut"]I'd like to point out that I do not agree with Susanoo's views.

R[/quote]

Thanks for that distancing - appreciated.

 

[Anonymous]

No problem. It all seems to be getting a bit silly here recently and some of my post may not have helped. Errors happen, get over it people. I put it down to back to work grumpiness, well mine at least!

R

 

[Gwyndy]

Much as I may see some merit in critical's point that What Hi-Fi appears to be slipping away from its "original idea", I have to query what he defines as "original idea". I never read What Hi-Fi when it first came out, so, I don't know what it did back then, however, I can state that I first bought it many years ago because I was looking for a Midi sysytem and at that point in time only two magazines had reviews of them, What Hi-Fi and What CD.
Now, some 12 years later I have several thousand pounds worth of "Hi-Fi" in my home- largely because after buying that 1 issue I kept reading What Hi-Fi and realised that music could be much more than just a mini system.

In the mid/late 90s What Hi-Fi started reviewing DVD players, they were expensive and it was argued that "it isn't about music why are they reviewing them?"- but What Hi-Fi always rated the ability of DVD players musically as well as visually.
When I eventually bought a DVD player, I bought one that plays music well-which is great when you have a large collection of music DVDs.

Same with MP3 players, could be argued not "Hi-Fi", but my friend who has a lot of Arcam kit mainly listens to music on an MP3 player he bought based on a What Hi-Fi review when the ipod was but a twinkle in Apples eye. And I bought an Ipod Nano for my wife's birthday on the strength of their views.

Last year I bought my two TVonics boxed based on What Hi-Fi's reviews, they aren't "Hi-Fi" either.

Hi-Fi is largely in the ear of the listener and if by reviewing Mini systems, Mp3 players, Mobile Phones, Hard Disc storage systems or any other form of music/ movie playback, What Hi-Fi gets more people interested in the idea that proper High Fidelity playback can be more than just whatever device they bought the magazine to read a review on, I think they should keep doing it.

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="susanoo"]ignore hard core readers to gain any new readership, well done Ms. Newsome ! ( I
hope you are enjoying your perk while your staff has to make lame excuses )
[/quote]

Hey.....That's harsh. I know some negative comments can be made to help make the mag more possitive but that was below the belt and you know it! I sometime think that you have some hidden agenda - the way you keep having a pop!

 

[matthewpiano]

[quote user="Critical"]
Right is it me or has anyone else over the last few months and thats being polite noticed that What Hi-Fi seems to be sliping away from what i can gather is its original idea. To me now its like reading a more grown up version of Stuff magazine, i don't care how good a mobile phones camera or storage abilities are because number one if i want to take a good picture i will use a proper camera and if i want to listen to music i will listen to music on an mp3 player or my own stereo.

I know the magazine needs to seel copies and hi-fi to be fair isn't going to shift copies off the shelf but i think you seem to be losing sight of the goal. Emulating what Stuff magazine does in my opinion is'nt going to get you anywhere, people who buy stuff may not generally buy what hifi and it seems now a days most people buy the magazine to check out whether the tv they is a good one or not.

I think this is down to trends and the publisher pushing you for sales so i understand that you have to sell a certain amount of magazines but i think you are alienating the people that have bought the magazine over the last few years. You should be established enough to do your own thing rather than emulate what a more successful younger sibling is doing, stick to your guns a bit more!!!

[/quote]

I agree with the sentiments of this. I can't really see the relevance or point of the mobile phone/mp3 player test in the new issue. It isn't hi-fi and it does belong more in Stuff magazine. Its nice to have some coverage of music players outside of conventional hi-fi, and the home cinema stuff is interesting and useful, but there appears to be more emphasis on TVs and lower quality forms of audio than on specialist hi-fi these days. This is why I read the other mags as well - they cover hi-fi in much greater detail. However, What Hi-Fi was always the only place to find balanced reviews of more affordable hi-fi seperates kit and it would be nice if this side of the magazine were to be expanded again with some reduction in TV screen coverage and eradication of the phones etc. which don't really belong in a hi-fi mag. Don't get me wrong, the coverage that is there is generally good but What Hi-Fi used to be just that - a hi-fi magazine - and it was better for it.

 

[Anonymous]

Look at it this way: an MP3 phone (or, and to be specific, a multimedia phone) is an entertainment source, much like an iPod. We felt some of our readers might want to know whether they could reasonably dispense with the hassle of buying (and carrying) two components -ÿnamely, an iPod and a telephone - if one could do the job to a decent standard. That's why we carried out the test.

Now don't get me wrong: no reasonable audio enthusiast would ever argue that a cheapo MP3 player filled with 128kbps music files is a piece of high-end audio, least of all me. However, if you pick and choose your compression systems carefully, you can persuade an iPod (or iPod Touch, or iPhone) to sound great, even when connected into a decent hi-fi system.

As for the balance of coverage: we can only reflect what's out there. We can't conjure budget hi-fi into existence simply to make up the numbers in our tests. A great many brands have chosen to stop producing affordable separates hi-fi in the last five years (and no, we didn't have anything to do with that, before anyone suggests otherwise). Once, a budget CD player Supertest was the magazine's stock-in-trade: now, we struggle to get enough product together to make up a Test Express. How many of you have (or have had) a Technics CD player, for example? Or a Kenwood amp? All gone now.

Oh, and by the by: we used to review televisions and surround sound equipment way back in 1995. I know, I was there. True, we devote more pages to this content now than in days of yore, but the fact remains we haven't been exclusively devoted to two-channel stereo for a long, long time.

 

[matthewpiano]

Thanks Andy. A good and fair response that makes the issues facing the magazine all the more clearer. Hopefully we'll start to see more manufacturers investing in their hi-fi product again. Its certainly good to see NAD bringing out budget kit and the return of Pioneer has been welcome. I'm sure there would be a market for Technics and Kenwood gear again with the resurgence of interest in hi-fi. We're certainly getting asked for seperates a lot more again and its a shame that with Sony's current range (superb at the top end, but limited at the budget end) we can't always cater for a customer's needs.

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Andy Kerr"]As for the balance of coverage: we can only reflect what's out there. We can't
conjure budget hi-fi into existence simply to make up the numbers in our tests. [/quote]

Why not move up a notch or two....plenty about at £850 - £1500 marks (even if you leave Cyrus and CA out!). The budget end has been dead for a while now and that is the only reason why Cambridge Audio has been mention more times in WHF than we seen Britney Spear pictures in the Sun paper.

I can't knock the way WHF team can come out with more test than any other similar magazine every month, the work load must be paramount....jolly well done.

 

[Alec]

no no no, PLEASE DONT stop covering the budget end! If you do, theres no point me buying the mag again.

 

[Anonymous]

I think there's 2 seperate issues at play here.

The first is the mix between 2 channel hifi and 'home cinema' type products. This is not cut and dry, actually the WHF yearly questionaire ask: "should we have A) more hifi, B) more home cinema, C) about right. I usually vote A), but it's a not a black and white area..

The other issue which I have more of a problem with is where do you stop when it comes to 'anything that plays music or video'. I'm sure there has been a shift over the last year or so on this one. The front cover say 'HOME entertainment magazine' - I dont' class a mp3 mobile phone as 'home' entertainment - it's something you use out of the home. A similar sort of product 20 years ago was the cassette walkman - did WHF in 1987 do a Group Test back then of the Sony Walkman versus it's rivals from Sanyo, Aiwa etc.??? I doubt it.

Over the last few decades lots of people have bought portable radios be them MW, FM or DAB. I never remember WHF testing them tho. Nowadays you get a portable 'kitchen' radio test every other issue. Why is that?

Having said that the current issue (feb) is very good if you take the mobile phone test out. Just don't let it slip please!!!
jules

 

[Clare Newsome]

thanks for all your valuable feedback.

i would add to the comments added by Andy and Andrew that we still review more hi-fi at every price point than any other UK magazine - and are the only ones to do so in dedicated test facilities by a team of reviewers, using a range of comparative kit.

That's not about to change and yes, Thaiman, we are covering more high-end hi-fi - which is why you're seeing expanded Temptations sections every issue. And budget hi-fi's not going anywhere, too - for example, we've got a @£200 stereo amp test coming up in March issue, out Feb 6th.

But we've always been about spotting new technology trends, too - look on p3 of the current issue and you'll see an Mp3 cover we ran back in 1999. And yes, we did used to run tests of Walkmans etc - the 'Stereo on the go' supplement was running even before that....

 

[Alec]

Nice answer. Just please keep the budget stuff coming, otherwise ill need a miraculous increae in income, or to buy another mag (i know you have addressed this already, but thought it was worth labouring the point lol). On that subject, i tend to ask myself "do i like 'em? do they cover stuff im likely to buy?". The answer is no. And they dont do what you do, as well as you do it. OK, i could do without phones in the mag, but then its not designed around me - I mean, i personally could do without CD players or record players in it too, but thats not the point. But then, as i use my PC as source and will for the foreseeable, some would say im guilty of fuzzy logic. I'm not tho. I'm always right. Ahem.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="al7478"]some would say im guilty of fuzzy logic.[/quote]

Isn't fuzzy logic about learning and adapting to new inputs, rather than sticking to one's original, possibly outdated, original programming?

I think that's exactly what the magazine is doing.

 

[Alec]

It certainly is, well said. In my case its born out of not having enough room for a hifi rack - just a spare shelf on my PC's desk where ive put the amp - and already having all my music on the pc, before i got "proper" speakers. Another box or 2 could go under my telly in the opposite cornr, but i digress.

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]you'll see an Mp3 cover we ran back in 1999. And yes, we did used to run tests
of Walkmans etc - the 'Stereo on the go' supplement was running even before
that....[/quote]

No one can argue with that ! yes, Clare (or was it Andy back then) did and I was swearing back then! but my mates and I still go out and buy WHF mag every 4-5 weeks so you editors must have done something right (and still doing it imo) put it this way....magazine's record speaking for itself , 2 years from now we all will be listen to our Musical Fidelity 24bit upsample Mobile phone

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
thanks for all your valuable feedback.

i would add to the comments added by Andy and Andrew that we still review more hi-fi at every price point than any other UK magazine - and are the only ones to do so in dedicated test facilities by a team of reviewers, using a range of comparative kit.

That's not about to change and yes, Thaiman, we are covering more high-end hi-fi - which is why you're seeing expanded Temptations sections every issue. And budget hi-fi's not going anywhere, too - for example, we've got a @£200 stereo amp test coming up in March issue, out Feb 6th.

But we've always been about spotting new technology trends, too - look on p3 of the current issue and you'll see an Mp3 cover we ran back in 1999. And yes, we did used to run tests of Walkmans etc - the 'Stereo on the go' supplement was running even before that....

[/quote]

As the man in orthopaedic sandals said: "I stand corrected...!!!"

I can renew my subscription with confidence.
jules.