Computer with DAC vs CD Player

[admin_exported]

I've researched quite a bit but I ultimately confused.

Option 1:
I buy a high-quality DAC and connect it via Coaxial or USB (or Optical) to my computer and play a high-quality bit-perfect rip of a CD that is stored in a lossless format (such as WAV or FLAC) and then on top of this use a program with an ASIO output plug-in (so as to bypas the Windows Audio Stack)

Option 2:
I buy a CD Player such as the Cyrus CD6SE and use that.

Wouldn't Opt.1 & Opt.2 be very similar in sound quality? Or even Option 1 be superior as they will be no read errors as it is a perfect rip?

I've seen many differing opinions and I'd like to try and a get a (or as close to a) once-and-for-all (at least for me that is) on this topic. So what are your opinions? Many thanks...

P.S. the reason I'm asking this is because I'm purchasing a Hi-Fi system. I've just bought my speakers; a pair of ATC SCM 19s (Mint Ex-dem for a substantial discount). I am now completing the rest of the hi-fi and am tossing up between something like the Cyrus CD6SE (or 8SE) and the Cyrus DACX (or another comparable DAC). So yeah.

 

[manicm]

Since you have a DAC why not try option 1 out as it will not seem to cost you anything, many are happy with computer-bases audio.

However a CD6SE is also a tempting proposition

Good luck!

 

[Anonymous]

I've edited my post. I don't know why I said have lol. I don't actually own a DAC or CD Player (or Amp for that matter; I've got another thread asking for suggestions regarding that). That's why I made this thread to get some advice on deciding whether computer audio is good enough with a DAC or using a CD Player really is better.

 

[John Duncan]

My opinion on this is documented at (yawn) length here

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Beta4Me:
I've researched quite a bit but I ultimately confused.

Option 1:
I buy a high-quality DAC and connect it via Coaxial or USB (or Optical) to my computer and play a high-quality bit-perfect rip of a CD that is stored in a lossless format (such as WAV or FLAC) and then on top of this use a program with an ASIO output plug-in (so as to bypas the Windows Audio Stack)

Option 2:
I buy a CD Player such as the Cyrus CD6SE and use that.

Wouldn't Opt.1 & Opt.2 be very similar in sound quality? Or even Option 1 be superior as they will be no read errors as it is a perfect rip?

I've seen many differing opinions and I'd like to try and a get a (or as close to a) once-and-for-all (at least for me that is) on this topic. So what are your opinions? Many thanks...

P.S. the reason I'm asking this is because I'm purchasing a Hi-Fi system. I've just bought my speakers; a pair of ATC SCM 19s (Mint Ex-dem for a substantial discount). I am now completing the rest of the hi-fi and am tossing up between something like the Cyrus CD6SE (or 8SE) and the Cyrus DACX (or another comparable DAC). So yeah.

The Cyrus DACX and your computer would blow a lot of cd players out of the water. No brainer.

 

[John Duncan]

Gerrardasnails:The Cyrus DACX and your computer would blow a lot of cd players out of the water. No brainer.

(which is a short version of my ramblings

)

 

[Anonymous]

So basically if I ripped my CDs really well then a DAC vs CD Player (similar pricing) the DAC + Computer would be better?

 

[John Duncan]

Beta4Me:So basically if I ripped my CDs really well then a DAC vs CD Player (similar pricing) the DAC + Computer would be better?

In my experience, yes - £200 DACMagic vs £800 Primare CD Player.

The "really well" bit is the key, obviously.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Beta4Me:So basically if I ripped my CDs really well then a DAC vs CD Player (similar pricing) the DAC + Computer would be better?

Do you mean like a £500 cd player vs a £500 DAC? If so, a thrashing in my eyes. As John says, my DacMagic is better than any £500 cd player I've heard and people who have listened to my system cannot believe that I've not spent five times as much. Therefore I would say a Cyrus DACX, Chord 64 (my next purchase in a few years) would match most cd players under £2k.

 

[Anonymous]

Nice! The only problem I (might) have is if I get the Cyrus DACX it doesn't have USB input. I have a laptop which would be the device I use to connect to it. Anyone with experience with laptops would know that they don't have coaxial/optical out. Mine does have an HDMI out so I'm looking into getting an adapter to split into DVI with Coaxial and use the Coaxial out from that to connect to the DAC. Do you think that would still sound alright? Should I be looking at a DAC with USB--I personally feel the DACMagic is a bit cheap for the rest of my system (but, conversely, the Chord 64 too expensive)? What would be some options for that? Would the Benchmark DAC1 USB be a good choice? Or the DAC1 PRE seeing as I need an amp too (how would the partnership of that with the Bryston 3B-ST be?) Thank you (btw if I can stick with Cyrus I would like to--upgradability is great.)

 

[John Duncan]

Lots of laptops now have an optical out from the headphone socket (or some weird arrangement with the s-video socket or something in the case of Dells), but tbh I'd just get an airport express - stream from the laptop to it, which has an optical out and can be hidden behind your rack.

The DACMagic is cheap only in price

 

[Anonymous]

Really, I'm become quite strapped for cash now. I'd rather not buy an AirPort Express unless I need to (check my post in this thread: http://whathifi.com/forums/183316/ShowThread.aspx#183316

). I'll ring Dell and ask them about outputting digital audio. My Laptop is an XPS M1530.

Likewise, as my budget has now become so stretched, I might have to get the DACMagic with the Cyrus Pre vs2 and 8 Power (or Mono Xs--testing will reveal whether the 8 Power can cut it for my speakers

)

 

[Dave_]

My dell inspiron has a digital out via the s-video socket, found it quite hard tracking down an adaptor.But fwiw found a supplier on ebay, here and he was cheap and reliable.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Beta4Me:
Really, I'm become quite strapped for cash now. I'd rather not buy an AirPort Express unless I need to (check my post in this thread: http://whathifi.com/forums/183316/ShowThread.aspx#183316

). I'll ring Dell and ask them about outputting digital audio. My Laptop is an XPS M1530.

Likewise, as my budget has now become so stretched, I might have to get the DACMagic with the Cyrus Pre vs2 and 8 Power (or Mono Xs--testing will reveal whether the 8 Power can cut it for my speakers

)

You won't be disappointed with the DacMagic. I will eventually buy a second hand Chord 64 or similar (just to see how much better it can be as I'm already very happy with my set up). If I can spot a deal, I know I could try it out and unless I was shocked by the difference, I would just sell it on.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your advice guys. In 3 days I'll be testing everything out. I'll get a chance to compare the DACMagic to the DAC X and I'll let you know what my results and thoughts are.

 

[Anonymous]

I recently sold my Cyrus set-up, but can confirm that Apple Lossless files streamed to Airport express hooked up to my DAC-X sounded identical to my ears as the CDSE and the CD XTSE (which my mate brought round) fed into the same DAC-X

The above test result led me to actually sell my seperates and follow the pc - active set-up. Im very happy with the results, and the cash Ive saved

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't end up testing any DACs, unfortunately. But I did get to test a whole bunch of Cyrus gear, some Rega stuff, the Leema Tucana and a 3K pound Plinius. I started with the CD6SE and Cyrus 8vs2, it sounded terribly harsh with my ATC SCM19s and I thought hmm maybe they haven't been run in enough. The bass was also severely so I had the speakers moved back to about 30cm from the back wall--that helped. Next I tried the Pre vs2/8 Power combo. The control of the sound improved but it still wasn't sounding great, their was only slightly more authority and basically it was NOT an enjoyable listen; it felt like I was hearing noise, not music. Then I tried the Rega Elicit. Now THAT seriously made a difference. It was a thicker, lusher sound that brough a lot more bass in and removed some of the harshness from the top, not much but it did remove some and overall made quite a noticable difference. Now the sound was bearable, it still wasn't great but I could listen to it and enjoy it. Then I swapped from the CD6SE to the Rega Apollo. It was a very minor difference but the Apollo's sonic characteristics suited it's partnering Rega amp.

THEN...I tried the Cyrus Mono Xs with the Pre vs2. It was like..."Now that's what my speakers should sound like!" The sound was unbelievably fluid and smooth, the harshness was gone and the bass-weight was still there. It combined the upsides of the cheaper Cyrus gear with the upsides of the Rega Elicit plus more--the incredible smoothness. I was in heaven, I could've listened to that sound all day. Then I tried the Plinius and Tucana. They were both very similar to the Mono Xs but just lacked the slightest bit of detail and (mid-to-upper) bass weight and authority. I was set on the Mono Xs. But I can't afford them, but the rest sounds like rubbish. "I'm in a bit of a pickle ****"

So I'm going try and test out the DACMagic and DACX with the Mono X's and my really old (but warm) amp and see which one I like--unless I hate the DACMagic's sound compared to the DACX I'll get that and then I'll get some stands for my speakers and the interconnects and everything. Then I'll save up again and get the Pre vs2 and Mono X's (and if there's some new Cyrus gear out it'll make the Mono X's even cheaper!).

 

[Anonymous]

Take a look at the cyrus unofficial forum at www.forum.cyrusunofficial.co.uk , plenty of secondhand Cyrus kit available on there and even occasionaly good deals on new/reprocessed kit. Glad you liked the sound of the Mono X's I've been using them for 18 months in my system and have no intention of changing them anytime soon.

If you're considering going down the DAC route take a close look at the Cyrus DAC/XP, a DAC and Pre Amp in one box, not cheap but a highly regarded piece of kit.

 

[Anonymous]

The RRP of the Pre vs2 and DACX is about 1700 whereas the DACXP is them put together + balanced outputs (with less analogue inputs) for 500 more (2200). That's a big jump. Although, if it were used with Mono Xs the XLRs would be worthwhile. Still I don't know if I want to pay THAT much extra for very little.

 

[Anonymous]

I would have tried some active ATCs with a DAC XP.

 

[Anonymous]

thfcwestlower:
I recently sold my Cyrus set-up, but can confirm that Apple Lossless files streamed to Airport express hooked up to my DAC-X sounded identical to my ears as the CDSE and the CD XTSE (which my mate brought round) fed into the same DAC-X

The above test result led me to actually sell my seperates and follow the pc - active set-up. Im very happy with the results, and the cash Ive saved

Do you get pro style Mackie or Edirol? I wish they did slightly more acceptable finishes.

 

[Anonymous]

not exactly, the pre in the DAC/XP is far better than the prevs2 and yes I have heard both. You're right though it's a lot of money to spend on hifi. If you're not adverse to buying secondhand you can get the DACXP and a pair of Mono X for around £2600 these days.

Also checkout www.moorgateacoustics.co.uk , they sell a lot of Cyrus repro stuff at very keen prices with full Cyrus warranty. Repro is basically equipment that Cyrus have used at hifi shows etc, it's then checked over and reboxed for sale at very good prices. A DACXP can be had for around £1500 and Mono X for around £1600 probably even cheaper in these difficult times.

 

[Dan.m]

Ian

I notice you have a sonos-dac-amp-speaker set up. I am looking to get a sonos (mainly for the multiroom capability and ease of use i.e.not inserting CD's) and DAC.

I will have my PC in one room with a bridge (in this room i will listen through audioengine A2s) connected (hard wired) to my PC. I would then be looking to insert a DAC somewhere along the 'line'. Where would it sit and how exaclty do you connect it.

1) Is it PC (i tunes) - DAC - Bridge - Zone player - amp - speakers. If so, what connections (leads/usb/ethernet etc)

2) a) I am tempted by the much rated DACMAGIC (200). However, you seem to have graet results with the Cyrus DAC. At what point do you think that music files ripped in lossless become the limiting factor.

b) Some people claim that a PC with dacmagic sounds as good as a 500 dedicated player. I realise you do not own one but would you agree with this kind of analogy?

3) Do you have a zone with built in amp? if so, how good is the amp? As good as a 30 watt rotel amp? What speakers do you run from it ? would they drive a pair of B&W 601's in a second room?

Dan

 

[Anonymous]

Dan,

Plenty of questions there, I'll try to answer some of them as best I can.

My setup is as follows.

Wireless router with SONOS Zonebridge and NAS drive connected to it.

I have a ZP80 connected directly to my DAC/XP via coaxial connection (Digital) the DAC/XP is then connected directly to the power amps.

I have a ZP120 connected to my old Monitor Audio Silver 8i's in the bedroom.

I have a CR100 Controller to control the whole SONOS system.

Once I've ripped my CD's to the NAS drive the computer isn't used for streaming music, it's streamed directly from the NAS drive.

I've never heard the DACMagic but from all accounts it's a good DAC in this price range. I used to use a Cyrus CD8X + PSX-R power supply, this is approx £1450 worth of CDP, connected to my DAC/XP via coaxial. To my hears the SONOS sounds better on some music but mainly I couldn't hear a difference between the CDP and the SONOS.

Compared to a CDP reading directly from a CD, lossless files will never be a limiting factor IMO. Once you've ripped lossless the main limiting factor is the quality of the DAC.

The ZP120 in the bedroom is new, only had it 3 days so not really had chance to have a good listen but first impressions are good for the money.

Hope that helps.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Dan.m:
Ian

b) Some people claim that a PC with dacmagic sounds as good as a 500 dedicated player. I realise you do not own one but would you agree with this kind of analogy?

I would say that my bluray player and the DacMagic sounds as good as a £500 cd player. Lossless files and DacMagic sounds considerably better.