Complete Hi-Fi Upgrade Advice

[BigH]

Thank you Overdose. Your answer illustrates what I was talking about perfectly.

Lindsayt, why don't you recommend some speakers and give their disadvantages I think would be more helpful to the OP.

 

[hoopsontoast]

If YOU read the OP, you would find with a budget up tp £20k and a room 15x35ft, no bookshelf really is going to cut it. A 6.5" Floorstander is not going to do much better IMO either, no matter how much power you give it.

Its like looking to buy a Ferrari or Aston Martin and someone recommends you buy a Skoda Fabia. It will get you from A-B in perfect comfort, technically flawless for the money and does everything a car needs to do but its not the same is it?

 

[matt49]

Lindsayt, why don't you recommend some speakers and give their disadvantages I think would be more helpful to the OP.

BigH,

The sentiment of your post is admirable, but I fear this thread stopped being helpful to the OP a long time ago. Indeed, this forum is beginning to lose much of its appeal to me. Too much indiscriminate (and ideologically motivated) recommendation of inappropriate kit, too many ad hominem attacks, too much sourness. (I exclude you from this, of course.)

Matt :argh:

 

[Overdose]

If YOU read the OP, you would find with a budget up tp £20k and a room 15x35ft, no bookshelf really is going to cut it. A 6.5" Floorstander is not going to do much better IMO either, no matter how much power you give it.

Its like looking to buy a Ferrari or Aston Martin and someone recommends you buy a Skoda Fabia. It will get you from A-B in perfect comfort, technically flawless for the money and does everything a car needs to do but its not the same is it?

The budget wasn't in the first post though was it? That came after the recommendation.

And the OP isn't looking to buy a Ferrari or Aston Martin, so to speak, but simply to get from A-B in the manner you describe. The analogy was nearly there, the context, way off.

Edit: you might also like to see post #1 of page two, where I see the OP has just given his budget.

 

[BigH]

I think the ADM9 recommendation was before the room size and budget was known. With his budget and room size I would not consider the ADM9s. I may consider the ADM 40s plus many other more expensive amps/speakers, some panel speakers maybe suitable for that room size, its just a question of finding what he likes and is suitable for his room/budget/music.

 

[Phileas]

If YOU read the OP, you would find with a budget up tp £20k and a room 15x35ft

The budget wasn't in the first post though was it? That came after the recommendation.

This is quite typical really. An AVI fan makes a perfectly reasonable suggestion and everyone piles in without reading the thread properly.

 

[hoopsontoast]

If YOU read the OP, you would find with a budget up tp £20k and a room 15x35ft, no bookshelf really is going to cut it. A 6.5" Floorstander is not going to do much better IMO either, no matter how much power you give it.

Its like looking to buy a Ferrari or Aston Martin and someone recommends you buy a Skoda Fabia. It will get you from A-B in perfect comfort, technically flawless for the money and does everything a car needs to do but its not the same is it?

The budget wasn't in the first post though was it? That came after the recommendation.

And the OP isn't looking to buy a Ferrari or Aston Martin, so to speak, but simply to get from A-B in the manner you describe. The analogy was nearly there, the context, way off.

Edit: you might also like to see post #1 of page two, where I see the OP has just given his budget.

Well maybe it would be best to ask the budget and room size before making a suggestion of the AVI speakers, every time? As other people asked before they gave their recommendation, I fail to see how hard that is.

And the analogy does work, he is looking to reproduce music (transport from A-B) and looking to spend up to £20K (in car terms, very high end). People suggest him a £1.5k product (cheaper but pretty decent car).

I think the ADM9 recommendation was before the room size and budget was known. With his budget and room size I would not consider the ADM9s. I may consider the ADM 40s plus many other more expensive amps/speakers, some panel speakers maybe suitable for that room size, its just a question of finding what he likes and is suitable for his room/budget/music.

See above

If YOU read the OP, you would find with a budget up tp £20k and a room 15x35ft

The budget wasn't in the first post though was it? That came after the recommendation.

This is quite typical really. An AVI fan makes a perfectly reasonable suggestion and everyone piles in without reading the thread properly.

But its not a reasonable suggestion, as above.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Oh and someone disagrees with your favourite speaker brand and then the boys lay in one after each other :rofl:

 

[Phileas]

If YOU read the OP, you would find with a budget up tp £20k and a room 15x35ft

The budget wasn't in the first post though was it? That came after the recommendation.

This is quite typical really. An AVI fan makes a perfectly reasonable suggestion and everyone piles in without reading the thread properly.

But its not a reasonable suggestion, as above.

Oh, I thought you'd gone back and re-read the first two posts. Obviously not.

 

[Overdose]

Well maybe it would be best to ask the budget and room size before making a suggestion of the AVI speakers, every time? As other people asked before they gave their recommendation, I fail to see how hard that is.

And the analogy does work, he is looking to reproduce music (transport from A-B) and looking to spend up to £20K (in car terms, very high end). People suggest him a £1.5k product (cheaper but pretty decent car).

Given the equipment that the OP was listing and had listened to, ie the B&Ws, the budget was kind of implied and if using the B&W speakers as some sort of benchmark, the ADMs more than fit the bill.

You are now just arguing for the sake of it, not that you have done much else.

 

[Overdose]

Oh and someone disagrees with your favourite speaker brand and then the boys lay in one after each other :rofl:

But you and others don't disagree with the brand, largely because those most vocal haven't actually heard them. Your disagreement is with the recommendations of the brand.

I didn't think anyone was laying in, simply correcting misunderstandings.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Oh and someone disagrees with your favourite speaker brand and then the boys lay in one after each other :rofl:

But you and others don't disagree with the brand, largely because those most vocal haven't actually heard them. Your disagreement is with the recommendations of the brand.

I didn't think anyone was laying in, simply correcting misunderstandings.

Yes, my disagreement is with the constant recomendations of the brand to every question that is asked.

Would it not be nice to ask first, as I suggested, and other members did do, what the budget and room size is before telling them that the certain two models are all they will need.

Granted I have only heard the one of the original models and not the current GTI model.

I made my recomendation earlier in the thread in light of his budget and room size, that i felt would be a good place to look.

This was in case you missed it, to try and hear as much as he can, and get round to a lot of dealers that stock more esoteric brands that he might have not come across.

 

[hoopsontoast]

If YOU read the OP, you would find with a budget up tp £20k and a room 15x35ft

The budget wasn't in the first post though was it? That came after the recommendation.

This is quite typical really. An AVI fan makes a perfectly reasonable suggestion and everyone piles in without reading the thread properly.

But its not a reasonable suggestion, as above.

Oh, I thought you'd gone back and re-read the first two posts. Obviously not.

OK it was not the first post, but in the first couple.

Maybe we should define if OP is Original Post or Original Poster, I thought its the latter.

 

[Overdose]

OK it was not the first post, but in the first couple.

Maybe we should define if OP is Original Post or Original Poster, I thought its the latter.

So you are suggesting that everyone reads the entire thread, to spot every piece of detail that might be pertinent? Well you could start by taking your own advice it would seem. Personally, if everyone just concentrated on the OP*, there would be less tat to trawl through in the first place.

*Original post.

 

[hoopsontoast]

OK, its not every question, but its a lot. Although I dont remember any of these 'What to buy' threads ending with the OP buying them :? and coming back and singing their praises.

Mind you, the OP probably get bored with the thread as it decends into chaos.

Oh well :type: We are seriously off topic.

If I had that budget I would not know where to start TBH, far too much choice and kit to try!

 

[Overdose]

Yes, my disagreement is with the constant recomendations of the brand to every question that is asked.

Would it not be nice to ask first, as I suggested, and other members did do, what the budget and room size is before telling them that the certain two models are all they will need.

What a ridiculoius thing to say. It's not every question is it? And the variety of siutations that ADMs are recommended for should also tell a story, ie their versatility.

 

[Overdose]

If I had that budget I would not know where to start TBH, far too much choice and kit to try!

Short of a lottery win, it's not something I'm likely to ever need to consider, unfortunately.

 

[Phileas]

I'd quite like to hear some of this very high-end stuff, just out of interest to see if I'm missing much (although I like to believe I'm not!)

Having said that, I couldn't be bothered to inconvenience myself too much in order to find out.

 

[lindsayt]

Lindsayt, why don't you recommend some speakers and give their disadvantages I think would be more helpful to the OP.

The OP could buy a pair of modern high-end ported speakers such as Vaughan Cabernets or Wilson Watt Puppys or Coincident Total Victory. Plus points are their modern looks, medium size, good all round sound. More efficient examples are suitable for use with valve amps Less good points are they won't have the magical midrange of Quad Electrostatics, the dynamics of horns, nor the bass quality of purist large sealed box speakers. Less efficient examples are not so suitable for use with valves.

I like Quad Electrostatics a lot. Magical midrange and reach out and touch imaging and sound staging. Downsides are limited maximum volume for owners wanting party levels in large rooms. Plus their dipole nature means that rear radiating bass energy can bounce off the rear wall and cancel out the forward firing bass energy at certain frequencies. The OP might love electrostatics, or he might find that they don't have enough bass impact in his room for his taste in music - which does contain a lot of bass content.

Large sealed box speakers, such as Bozak Symphonys, offer good bass. Tight, extended, textured, grippy, involving, toe tapping bass. Good speakers for electronic music. Good speakers for non-fatiguing extended listening sessions. The speaker equivalent of a session beer. Compromises include the huge size, midrange isn't as wide open and unfettered as horns and lacks the biting edge clarity of good horns. Medium sized sealed box speakers like the Yamaha NS 1000 offer much greater Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF) at the expense of some of the bass impact.

Horns. Small horns like Klipsch Heresys offer great clarity and dynamics in the midrange. They're suitable for use with SET valve amps. And they're great for WAF and for being happy positioned right against the wall or in the corner. The downside is the very noticeable lack of bass extension resulting in a very lean tonal balance. Going for bigger horn hybrids such as Altec Model 19's, EV Sentry III's or Klipsch Jubilees brings greater bass extension and a more neutral tonal balance at the expense of size looks and WAF. Bass quality is OK with these but still not as good as large sealed boxes. Going for huge corner horns such as EV Patricians gives you genuine 20hz to 20 khz frequency extension. You also get better bass dynamics than large sealed boxes but bass tightness is slightly less good than them. Horns also tend to have dragons breath sound staging where it sounds like the loudest musicians are in front of the speakers. This takes a bit of getting used to for people accustomed to speakers with more laid-back soundstaging.

Amps. We have a conundrum here given the OP's taste in wanting an organic sound and his taste in electronic, new age and classic rock music. Valves, especially SET for a natural, organic midrange that's great at putting over the emotion behind a vocal performance. Solid state for tight bass and party volumes in large rooms with inefficient speakers at the expense of a midrange that sounds a bit mechanical and synthetic compared to good valves. The OP should try both.

Vinyl source. For crispness, dynamics, tight bass a good direct drive or idler drive, eg EMT 950 or 930, Pioneer P3 or P3a or souped-up Lenco. Downsides of the EMT 950 and 930 is that they don't quite have the detail retrieval of a SME 20/12a with Koetsu cartridge. But then the SME is a long way behind the EMT's in terms of dynamic expression with the SME sounding like it never really wants to let its' hair down and belt out a tune.