CD VS TURNTABLE SETUP COST

[nopiano]

Adele's 25 and Random Access Memories are prime examples of albums that should sound considerably better on vinyl than CD - due to significantly less dynamic compression on the vinyl versions.

I would be extremely disappointed if the vinyl versions were not more enjoyable listening events on my systems - assuming roughly equal listening volumes.

I know. They are from the vinyl audiophiles hall of fame, that is why I chose to compare them to their CD counterparts. These are just my observations... My gut says that any gain in dynamic decompressin would be drowned out by noise introduced to the signal by the records' surface, and my head says that CD accommodates a higher dynamic range than vinyl anyway, but hey what do I know.

I think that's exactly the case, Gazzip, but unfortunately I also suspect many CDs are mastered with maximum loudness in mind so are in fact compressed versus the master, or even mastered like it. If the latter, then the LP may be from the same master.

Its a bit like the cd versus hires download debate, isn't it?

 

[Gazzip]

FWIW I don't actually think "better" can be applied to a vinyl vs CD debate. In fact, unlike CD vs FLAC which can be directly compared against one another, vinyl shouldn't be comparatively assessed against CD at all. The two formats are completely different and should not be made to compete.

 

[Al ears]

Adele's 25 and Random Access Memories are prime examples of albums that should sound considerably better on vinyl than CD - due to significantly less dynamic compression on the vinyl versions.

I would be extremely disappointed if the vinyl versions were not more enjoyable listening events on my systems - assuming roughly equal listening volumes.

CD has a far wider dynamic range than records, which need to have the dynamic range restricted to cope with the relatively high level of background noise. There's no point in buying modern vinyl.

But vintage vinyl is OK??

 

[nopiano]

FWIW I don't actually think "better" can be applied to a vinyl vs CD debate. In fact, unlike CD vs FLAC which can be directly compared against one another, vinyl shouldn't be comparatively assessed against CD at all. The two formats are completely different and should not be made to compete.

Must be my age then, as having grown up with records, when cd arrived that's exactly what happened. Many abandoned their LPs after years of cleaning and fiddling with styli and tracking downforce etc., relieved at silent surfaces. Lots didn't though, myself included.

While each format offers its own benefits, and I'd include tapes and radio in that, the better versions of record players and CD players tend to converge in sound quality in my experience.

 

[MajorFubar]

CD has a far wider dynamic range than records, which need to have the dynamic range restricted to cope with the relatively high level of background noise. There's no point in buying modern vinyl.

There is, because while the technical specifications of CDs are way superior, the masters they cut to CDs are pften not, especially post-millenium pop, rock and remasters. So you end up having to buy the album on an inferior carrier (vinyl record) to get a master which hasn't been brickwalled to oblivion.

But in an ideal world, what you say should be true

 

[lindsayt]

I know. They are from the vinyl audiophiles hall of fame, that is why I chose to compare them to their CD counterparts. These are just my observations... My gut says that any gain in dynamic decompressin would be drowned out by noise introduced to the signal by the records' surface, and my head says that CD accommodates a higher dynamic range than vinyl anyway, but hey what do I know.

If you can hear any noise whatsoever once the music starts on your nearly new vinyl albums then you've either gotten them dirty or scratched very quickly or have bought a turntable (or phono stage) that is well below the standard that you could have bought for one tenth of the price.

 

[lindsayt]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

 

[Gazzip]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

If you can hear what you believe to be dynamic compression on the Adele 25 CD then you've probably bought a CDP (DAC) that is well below the standard that you could have bought for one tenth of the price. *biggrin*

Seriously though the facts are clear that there is far less information on a record than on a CD, The LF is cut in mono on a record for a start! I just don't think the formats are on the same level and are so far apart that comparison is follie.

EDIT: In fact I always have a little chuckle to myself when reviewers suggest the latest £8000 DAC is the most vinyl like yet. So you mean it is noisy, compressed and missing loads of information then? This is just marketing shizzle designed to sell digital to stick in the muds. As per my previous comments the two should not be compared the difference in quality is so vast in bias of the CD, which going back to the OP is why it costs so much to attain anything even approaching parity.

 

[Oldphrt]

Adele's 25 and Random Access Memories are prime examples of albums that should sound considerably better on vinyl than CD - due to significantly less dynamic compression on the vinyl versions.

I would be extremely disappointed if the vinyl versions were not more enjoyable listening events on my systems - assuming roughly equal listening volumes.

CD has a far wider dynamic range than records, which need to have the dynamic range restricted to cope with the relatively high level of background noise. There's no point in buying modern vinyl.

But vintage vinyl is OK??

Basically you are subjecting your modern digital audio to a rather primitive process that can only cause deterioration but if you already have an LP collection it makes sense to have a turntable. Collecting second hand CDs is a far better idea, there are some real bargains on Ebay. I do have some albums on vinyl that have never appeared in digital form and some that have been poorly mastered when they became CDs.

 

[Oldphrt]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

 

[Gazzip]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

 

[Electro]

I know. They are from the vinyl audiophiles hall of fame, that is why I chose to compare them to their CD counterparts. These are just my observations... My gut says that any gain in dynamic decompressin would be drowned out by noise introduced to the signal by the records' surface, and my head says that CD accommodates a higher dynamic range than vinyl anyway, but hey what do I know.

If you can hear any noise whatsoever once the music starts on your nearly new vinyl albums then you've either gotten them dirty or scratched very quickly or have bought a turntable (or phono stage) that is well below the standard that you could have bought for one tenth of the price.

The trouble is that many types of music have very quiet bits or even seconds of silence during the track and the noise destroys the illusion for me .

I also hate it when some recordings have fake vinyl noise added to the music on Cd, it makes my blood boil. *dash1*

 

[iMark]

I also would concede that CD is in theory a better medium for recorded music than an LP. However, the recording industry produces CDs that are made from atrocious masters. Two examples have already been mentioned here: Adele 25 and Daft Punk's Random Access Memories. We have both of these albums in our collection and it's quite obvious to us that the LP versions sound much less compressed than the CD versions. This is also confirmed by the Loudness Wars database.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Adele&album=25

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Daft+Punk&album=Random+Access

We much prefer the vinyl rips I made, which have been cleaned up in Vinyl Studio (highly recommended!).

For classical music and jazz I almost always prefer the CD version, simply because there is no background noise and almost all of the dynamic headroom is used. Which at the same time makes listening to a CD in the car not a very good experience.

 

[Gazzip]

This is worth a read. Sorry I can't cut and paste anything or add hyperlinks on my work PC for some reason so you need to copy and paste it in to the browser, even though it appears clicky...

http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)

 

[MajorFubar]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

+1. Though musical tastes do of course vary, and I'd rather listen to someone scrape a rusty nail down a chalkboard than listen to Adele, no matter what format it's on. We have all the CDs though, Mrs Fubar thinks she's wonderful.

 

[Gazzip]

It is interesting that some of the posters in the current Audiophile/aftermarket power cables. Surely they make a difference?? thread are impassioned disbelievers in the notion that power cables can make a difference because science says they cannot, and yet some of those same people are ardently dogmatic that vinyl is more dynamic and less compressed than CD, inspite of the scientific impossibility of it being so.

 

[manicm]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

Unless you have tongue in cheek (difficult to gauge):

Adele has produced 3 albums in 9 years, she is by definitiion 'an old phart'. Her songs represent the zeitgeist? She is decidedly middle of the road who appeals to Barry Manilow fans. That she won album of the year a the Grammys is telling of both entities. Where's Kanye when you really need him?

 

[Oldphrt]

It is interesting that some of the posters in the current Audiophile/aftermarket power cables. Surely they make a difference?? thread are impassioned disbelievers in the notion that power cables can make a difference because science says they cannot, and yet some of those same people are ardently dogmatic that vinyl is more dynamic and less compressed than CD, inspite of the scientific impossibility of it being so.

I'm intrigued. I can't find out who you are referring to.

 

[Oldphrt]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

Unless you have tongue in cheek (difficult to gauge):

Adele has produced 3 albums in 9 years, she is by definitiion 'an old phart'. Her songs represent the zeitgeist? She is decidedly middle of the road who appeals to Barry Manilow fans. That she won album of the year a the Grammys is telling of both entities. Where's Kanye when you really need him?

Kanye is just awful. No talent at all.

 

[manicm]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

Unless you have tongue in cheek (difficult to gauge):

Adele has produced 3 albums in 9 years, she is by definitiion 'an old phart'. Her songs represent the zeitgeist? She is decidedly middle of the road who appeals to Barry Manilow fans. That she won album of the year a the Grammys is telling of both entities. Where's Kanye when you really need him?

Kanye is just awful. No talent at all.

My point was Adele's award was ultra conservative. One can't also rule out she won due to the possibility of 25 being the best selling album in the last 2 years. Chances are your mother, grandmother, and dog all own their own copy. I really wish Kanye had intervened - it would have at least made for good entertainment at an otherwise uneventful event.

 

[Gazzip]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

Unless you have tongue in cheek (difficult to gauge):

Adele has produced 3 albums in 9 years, she is by definitiion 'an old phart'. Her songs represent the zeitgeist? She is decidedly middle of the road who appeals to Barry Manilow fans. That she won album of the year a the Grammys is telling of both entities. Where's Kanye when you really need him?

Kanye is just awful. No talent at all.

My point was Adele's award was ultra conservative. One can't also rule out she won due to the possibility of 25 being the best selling album in the last 2 years. Chances are your mother, grandmother, and dog all own their own copy. I really wish Kanye had intervened - it would have at least made for good entertainment at an otherwise uneventful event.

Just because she isn't a hard hitting, niche and sweary gangster rapper (some peoples idea of zeitgeist) it doesnt mean that people cannot connect with her music, which they do in their tens of millions. An artist who has the biggest selling album for two years simply has to be considereed to represent the Western musical zeitgeist. FWIW I personally think her musical message is middle of the road and slightly old hat, but I still like the way some of it sounds.

 

[manicm]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

Unless you have tongue in cheek (difficult to gauge):

Adele has produced 3 albums in 9 years, she is by definitiion 'an old phart'. Her songs represent the zeitgeist? She is decidedly middle of the road who appeals to Barry Manilow fans. That she won album of the year a the Grammys is telling of both entities. Where's Kanye when you really need him?

Kanye is just awful. No talent at all.

My point was Adele's award was ultra conservative. One can't also rule out she won due to the possibility of 25 being the best selling album in the last 2 years. Chances are your mother, grandmother, and dog all own their own copy. I really wish Kanye had intervened - it would have at least made for good entertainment at an otherwise uneventful event.

Just because she isn't a hard hitting, niche and sweary gangster rapper (some peoples idea of zeitgeist) it doesnt mean that people cannot connect with her music, which they do in their tens of millions. An artist who has the biggest selling album for two years simply has to be considereed to represent the Western musical zeitgeist. FWIW I personally think her musical message is middle of the road and slightly old hat, but I still like the way some of it sounds.

Don't blame others for your own prejudices and presumptions. I'm not really a rap/hip hop fan. So you're admitting judging artists by their album sales? In which case I find Taylor Swift far more interesting...

 

[Gazzip]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

Unless you have tongue in cheek (difficult to gauge):

Adele has produced 3 albums in 9 years, she is by definitiion 'an old phart'. Her songs represent the zeitgeist? She is decidedly middle of the road who appeals to Barry Manilow fans. That she won album of the year a the Grammys is telling of both entities. Where's Kanye when you really need him?

Kanye is just awful. No talent at all.

My point was Adele's award was ultra conservative. One can't also rule out she won due to the possibility of 25 being the best selling album in the last 2 years. Chances are your mother, grandmother, and dog all own their own copy. I really wish Kanye had intervened - it would have at least made for good entertainment at an otherwise uneventful event.

Just because she isn't a hard hitting, niche and sweary gangster rapper (some peoples idea of zeitgeist) it doesnt mean that people cannot connect with her music, which they do in their tens of millions. An artist who has the biggest selling album for two years simply has to be considereed to represent the Western musical zeitgeist. FWIW I personally think her musical message is middle of the road and slightly old hat, but I still like the way some of it sounds.

Don't blame others for your own prejudices and presumptions. I'm not really a rap/hip hop fan. So you're admitting judging artists by their album sales? In which case I find Taylor Swift far more interesting...

"blame"? "prejudices"? What are you talking about?

 

[manicm]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

Unless you have tongue in cheek (difficult to gauge):

Adele has produced 3 albums in 9 years, she is by definitiion 'an old phart'. Her songs represent the zeitgeist? She is decidedly middle of the road who appeals to Barry Manilow fans. That she won album of the year a the Grammys is telling of both entities. Where's Kanye when you really need him?

Kanye is just awful. No talent at all.

My point was Adele's award was ultra conservative. One can't also rule out she won due to the possibility of 25 being the best selling album in the last 2 years. Chances are your mother, grandmother, and dog all own their own copy. I really wish Kanye had intervened - it would have at least made for good entertainment at an otherwise uneventful event.

Just because she isn't a hard hitting, niche and sweary gangster rapper (some peoples idea of zeitgeist) it doesnt mean that people cannot connect with her music, which they do in their tens of millions. An artist who has the biggest selling album for two years simply has to be considereed to represent the Western musical zeitgeist. FWIW I personally think her musical message is middle of the road and slightly old hat, but I still like the way some of it sounds.

Don't blame others for your own prejudices and presumptions. I'm not really a rap/hip hop fan. So you're admitting judging artists by their album sales? In which case I find Taylor Swift far more interesting...

"blame"? "prejudices"? What are you talking about?

'Just because she isn't a hard hitting, niche and sweary gangster rapper'

 

[Gazzip]

I've been wondering for a while now if some listeners are less sensitive to dynamic compression than others?

I know for a fact that the dynamic compression on Adele's 25 CD really bothers me to the point where listening to it makes me think "Here we go. Another over-compressed modern pop CD. I want to put something better recorded on next."

I can't understand the appeal of Adele at all. She is average at best IMO.

This because she her songs are zeitgeist and you are an old phart who cannot relate to her music. An inability to connect with the youth on certain levels comes to us all and only gets worse.

Unless you have tongue in cheek (difficult to gauge):

Adele has produced 3 albums in 9 years, she is by definitiion 'an old phart'. Her songs represent the zeitgeist? She is decidedly middle of the road who appeals to Barry Manilow fans. That she won album of the year a the Grammys is telling of both entities. Where's Kanye when you really need him?

Kanye is just awful. No talent at all.

My point was Adele's award was ultra conservative. One can't also rule out she won due to the possibility of 25 being the best selling album in the last 2 years. Chances are your mother, grandmother, and dog all own their own copy. I really wish Kanye had intervened - it would have at least made for good entertainment at an otherwise uneventful event.

Just because she isn't a hard hitting, niche and sweary gangster rapper (some peoples idea of zeitgeist) it doesnt mean that people cannot connect with her music, which they do in their tens of millions. An artist who has the biggest selling album for two years simply has to be considereed to represent the Western musical zeitgeist. FWIW I personally think her musical message is middle of the road and slightly old hat, but I still like the way some of it sounds.

Don't blame others for your own prejudices and presumptions. I'm not really a rap/hip hop fan. So you're admitting judging artists by their album sales? In which case I find Taylor Swift far more interesting...

"blame"? "prejudices"? What are you talking about?

'Just because she isn't a hard hitting, niche and sweary gangster rapper'

How on EARTH is that demonstrative of prejudice? Jesus christ. This country...