Cassette Decks

[JamesMellor]

To be fair egg' some cassettes are not turds , I think we all have mixed tapes with handwriiten notes or hand drawn covers from the past that we dont want to lose , 20 quid on ebay will buy you something to [lay them on , it's not hifi but it can be important music or voice

James

 

[MajorFubar]

Hell no, they were rubbish back in the day and haven't improved with age.

No they weren't. Don't make such a broadbrush generalist dismissal based on the fact that you obviously only bought sh-t ones.

Would anyone care to explain what their 'Play trim' actually does?

Ie, what does it actually do and does it work?

It's basically a treble control ahead of the Dolby circuit which stopped dull tapes from sounding even more muddy because of Dolby mistracking. It does sort of work (at least it did on the Nad I once auditioned). If manufacturers used the correct playback EQ in the first place, it would have been less of a problem, at least with half-decent tapes from the major labels. But many did not. I always suspected some manufacturers purposefully set the EQ wrong to mask the inadequate s/n ratio of their playback-amps and heads, which could be fairly easily masked on their decks' own recordings by under-biasing the tape a smidgen.

 

[davedotco]

Hell no, they were rubbish back in the day and haven't improved with age.

No they weren't. Don't make such a broadbrush generalist dismissal based on the fact that you obviously only bought sh-t ones.

Would anyone care to explain what their 'Play trim' actually does?

Ie, what does it actually do and does it work?

It's basically a treble control ahead of the Dolby circuit which stopped dull tapes from sounding even more muddy because of Dolby mistracking. It does sort of work (at least it did on the Nad I once auditioned). If manufacturers used the correct playback EQ in the first place, it would have been less of a problem, at least with half-decent tapes from the major labels. But many did not. I always suspected some manufacturers purposefully set the EQ wrong to mask the inadequate s/n ratio of their playback-amps and heads, which could be fairly easily masked on their decks' own recordings by under-biasing the tape a smidgen.

So, I kind of variable playback eq, is that correct?

 

[andyjm]

One more point:

Is the taped music quality in any way superior to other available formats of recorded music?

Tape is too narrow, tape speed is too slow, tolerances of cassettes themselves too wide to be considered as 'hifi'. With a following wind and careful calibration you could get a cassette to struggle up to the low teens of KHz. Lets not forget that this was a format originally designed for dictation machines.

As for decent players, Nakamichi and NEAL Ferrograph were the two used where I used to work. Unless you have an archive of tapes you wish to play (as the OP does) I would avoid this format like the plague.

Tapes have limited life, every time the tape is played a thin layer of oxide is removed from the tape surface. If the O/P values his archive, the best thing to do would be to digitise the tapes and play the copy.

 

[eggontoast]

To be fair egg' some cassettes are not turds , I think we all have mixed tapes with handwriiten notes or hand drawn covers from the past that we dont want to lose , 20 quid on ebay will buy you something to play them on , it's not hifi but it can be important music or voice

James

I can concur with this but sometimes these memories are best left as just that, memories.

Hell no, they were rubbish back in the day and haven't improved with age.

No they weren't. Don't make such a broadbrush generalist dismissal based on the fact that you obviously only bought sh-t ones.

Come on, seriously, cassettes are not a High Fidelity format. Even with a properly calibrated deck, metal tape and all of the Dolby B, C, S, Hx pro shite required to get the top register and eliminate hiss, they still sound poor.

 

[chrisr1718]

I managed to get a Nakamichi CD2 off ebay a few months ago for £43.50 + p&p. Excellent bit of kit.

 

[MajorFubar]

Come on, seriously, cassettes are not a High Fidelity format. Even with a properly calibrated deck, metal tape and all of the Dolby B, C, S, Hx pro shite required to get the top register and eliminate hiss, they still sound poor.

Not so. The problem with analogue storage media like cassettes (and records to a large extent) is that most people's experience of them is hearing them on hardware which is pretty poor at best but even more commonly is just plain mediocre.

If you're unlucky enough to live in my part of England (North West) I'd be happy to invite you round for a demo to show you just what the medium is actually capable of on a top-quality machine. Considering your gutter-low expectations, I suspect you would be surprised.

EDIT: I've had an even better idea...watch this space.

EDIT EDIT: Anyone know if it's against House Rules to post links to a YouTube video?

 

[eggontoast]

If you're unlucky enough to live in my part of England (North West) I'd be happy to invite you round for a dem....

Fortunately not, I'm in the expensive part down the bottom of the country.

I'm on the edge of my seat !!

Go on post the link, I'm sure they won't throw you in jail, come on I can barely wait....

 

[chebby]

Recordings made on my old Yamaha KX-580 SE (or my Sony WM D6C before that) with TDK AD-X90 tapes were pretty respectable. Obviously a Nakamichi in good fettle would have been superior, but only worth it if the source was equally capable.

Given that my sources at the time were a Rega Planar 3 (RB300) with a Goldring 1042 and a Rega tuner then the Yamaha was proportionate.

However that's all history (unless you still have a vast collection of cassettes) and nowadays an ALAC (or FLAC) rip from a CD is going to sound better than any cassette recording of the same. (And take up no physical space.)

 

[MajorFubar]

I'm in the expensive part down the bottom of the country.

I'm on the edge of my seat !!

Go on post the link, I'm sure they won't throw you in jail, come on I can barely wait....

Ah just as I suspected, you're from 'down south', that part of the country where for a change they've had what we class as 'a normal amount of rain' and so it's all over the news suddenly*

Don't sit on the edge of your seat for too long, you'll get piles waiting for me to upload to YouTube through my Victorian antiquated phone line. Fibreoptic broadband is a thing of fantasy round here, as is cable.

*tongue in cheek. No direct insult meant to anyone devastated by the floods.

 

[MajorFubar]

Wow it’s only taken two hours to upload a three minute video to YouTube. The Internet speed is absolutely screaming round here tonight…

Anyhow here it is, a small demo of my Nakamichi DR-1 playing a common mass-produced pre-recorded tape. Of course it’s not got the silent background and (potential) dynamic range available from a CD, but it’s not the unlistenable lo-fi rubbish some would have you believe, either. :shame:

The first tape I pulled out my drawer was this Rock Anthems tape from 1994 (Dino label, DINMC 101). Well worn, I have to say. I apologise in advance. This was the tape I took to my HiFi dealers twenty years ago when I’d absolutely convinced myself that what I really needed in my life was a Sony TC-K611S. And so I left the shop carrying a brand new Nakamichi DR-3. As you do.

The usual qualifiers apply of course regarding YouTube sound quality (make sure you pick 720 from the drop-down). Plus I had to use the bog-standard line-in on my iMac to record the sound. All caveats considered, it’s a representative facsimile though I guess. And before anyone asks, there is absolutely NO post-capture EQ or noise reduction, unless YouTube has applied some. (It doesn’t seem to have done.) It’s a bit bright, but then again, so is the CD of the same album.

http://youtu.be/0GdwGvj637I

Enjoy. :rockout:

 

[eggontoast]

Well there you go, sounds shite, looks nice though.

BTW your not allowed to post links to YouTube on this forum.

 

[MajorFubar]

Thanks, from you that is a compliment. I can see you are impressed.

 

[StevenKay]

Hi Everyone

For some personal reasons, could not visit the Forum pages for many many days. I am happy to see that there have been many very useful contributions during my absence. All these have helped me to understand some of the critical technical aspects relating to the sound reproduction using Cassette Decks,.and of course in identifying the better ones to look for.

My sincere thanks to all of you. Special thanks to Majorfubar for his very useful, prompt and enthusiastic resonses. My search is still on. Hopefully I shall soon find what I am looking for, Thanks once again.

 

[StevenKay]

MajorFubar

Just heard that demo. It sounds wonderful to me. That level of quality from taped music is good enough for me.

Your recommendations carry solid weight. Thanks a lot.

 

[MrReaper182]

Look down the second hand electrical stores and car boot sales on a regular basis as you often find very good cassette decks going for as little as 15-20 quid. Very good CD players can be also be found for penny's down second hand electrical stores. I once found a Bang and Olufsen CD plyer in a second hand ecectrical store for 60 quid and it sounded lovely. Sold it online for 500 quid.

 

[StevenKay]

MrReaper182

Thanks for the suggestion. I am also trying the 'second hand' route . Happy to know about your own experience with it. Interesting.

 

[MajorFubar]

MajorFubar

Just heard that demo. It sounds wonderful to me. That level of quality from taped music is good enough for me.

Your recommendations carry solid weight. Thanks a lot.

You're welcome.

 

[Gregsta]

[style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"]You could get yourself one of these [/style][style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"]TEAC W-890R MKII Double Cassette deck the only issue I would say with this is, that they are very expensive and the phone socket has no volume. What could be corrected by buying a amp or headphone amp. I personally would not go for that I have been looking at one of these Yamaha KX-670 High-End 3-head Cassette deck, their are load of nice tape players on eBay, I would maybe buy of off a dealer on ebay, because then they would of have been serviced. Tape players are getting old now and most will need a good service after awhile. the belt can go along with other things that can go wrong with them. If you want to play it safe then maybe buy the TEAC they come with a 24 Month warranty. [/style]*biggrin*

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I'd be looking for a good condition 2nd hand Nakamichi. One of the models that would have been top of the range when new.

+1 on Nakamichi. They were the pinnacle of cassette decks before CDs then streaming took over.

Give the heads a good clean
And insist on a demo before parting with cash.

Be prepared to be disappointed by the playback of old, even stored, casettes.

 

[Al ears]

I'd be looking for a good condition 2nd hand Nakamichi. One of the models that would have been top of the range when new.

+1 on Nakamichi. They were the pinnacle of cassette decks before CDs then streaming took over.

Give the heads a good clean And insist on a demo before parting with cash.

Be prepared to be disappointed by the playback of old, even stored, casettes.

I'd agree, but this is a two year old thread.

 

[Al ears]

You could get yourself one of these TEAC W-890R MKII Double Cassette deck the only issue I would say with this is, that they are very expensive and the phone socket has no volume. What could be corrected by buying a amp or headphone amp. I personally would not go for that I have been looking at one of these Yamaha KX-670 High-End 3-head Cassette deck, their are load of nice tape players on eBay, I would maybe buy of off a dealer on ebay, because then they would of have been serviced. Tape players are getting old now and most will need a good service after awhile. the belt can go along with other things that can go wrong with them. If you want to play it safe then maybe buy the TEAC they come with a 24 Month warranty. *biggrin*

I think he might have already got something in the intervening two years. ;-)

 

[Old Dex]

I had a Sony TCK611s years ago and seem to recall that was a very good tape deck too.

I still have the Sony TC-KE400S which was a WHF winner of some description iirc. Highly praised partly due to it's ceramic tape holder. It is a very good all rounder, I have possibly a dozen pre-recorded tapes around, though the nature of the beast is that the medium doesn't last well.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Wonder why this thread popped up again if it's two years old?

Been a couple of those layely.

Now then, about my Akai reel-to-reel....

 

[PerfectSound]

Try a perfectly aligned ReVox A77 reel to reel recorder. One of the cheapest but best sounding analog machine you can buy.