can some one talk me through

toyota man

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Apr 22, 2009
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Hi all can someone talk me through what hardware DAC etc that I need to streem music from my macbook to my hifi using my ipad as my remote as well as flick through my itunes I have no idea whats required many thanks for your help Ive got 2k to play with and I am sure you know that I love my blues rock metal folk . is there a way which I can run a system without my pc switched on as you can tell I am new to the idea of streeming music :cheers:
 
toyota man said:
Hi all can someone talk me through what hardware DAC etc that I need to streem music from my macbook to my hifi using my ipad as my remote as well as flick through my itunes I have no idea whats required many thanks for your help Ive got 2k to play with and I am sure you know that I love my blues rock metal folk . is there a way which I can run a system without my pc switched on as you can tell I am new to the idea of streeming music :cheers:

A NAS of some sort and a Sonos Connect. Leave it at that for now and get used to the equipment. £600 should see you right.

At a later date you can try a few DACs at home to decide if you need one or not.
 
toyota man, I ditched my whole hifi setup as it was getting out of hand. In addition to this the CDs were dominating the living room and all the shelf space.

I ripped all my CDs to harddrive (and now store them in the airing cupboard, just in case!) I have an iPad 2 and stream the music through my broadband (Plusnet Fibre) to an Apple TV (a streaming device, not a TV, in case you didn't know). The Apple TV is plugged into a pair of AVi ADM40 active floorstanders that have their own built-in DAC (the 40's cost £3250). However, AVi also do standmounts, called ADM 9RS (£1250) which are in their latest incarnation, and available with a ScanSpeak tweeter upgrade (£1400). Some say they need a Sub (£800), some are happy without. The standmounts and Sub would push you just over your 2k budget, but are worth a listen.

I haven't looked back and am unlikely to go back to separates, unless I win the lottery. The mem-sahib is happy as well, as all the dust-trap boxes and messy cables have gone, not to mention the endless empty boxes stored around the house (we have no loft!)

The sound quality is the best I've heard, very clear and pure, and free from colouration. I was trained as a Sound Engineer and would be happy to use ADM speakers in the studio. They're not for everyone, as a quick look at some of the threads will indicate, but as I said, they're definitely worth considering.
 
Maybe all you'd need is to add an Apple Airport Express, and there's a remote app for the iPad (I think).

Do you really need a NAS? Maybe not. I was researching a NAS for ages, but I actually never bothered. I do switch on the PC to access my iTunes library, but most of my listening is on Spotify so the pc stays off.

Alternatively, I can thoroughly recommend looking into Sonos. As well as access to your own library, you have access to Spotify etc, Internet radio and a new update allows you to access the music stored on your ithing (similar to Airplay)

oh and add more zones as you wish.

You can buy more / much more expensive streamers, they invariably seem a real faff compared to the ridiculous simplicity of Sonos. I suppose they might sound a bit better, but I doubt by very much.
 
RobinKidderminster said:
Does op want to ditch his £2k speakers etc?

I don't know and I'm certainly not telling him to. However, it wasn't an option for me until I found out about it and a spot of lateral thinking often throws up other alternatives.
 
Another vote for Sonos. I went through the same process as you a few years ago, and also with atc speakers. I'm delighted I went with the Sonos. I doubt you can get simpler in terms of setup and UI (assuming you have a smartphone). Trouble free wireless is not guaranteed but has as good or a better chance than anything else. And I find the sound without a separate dac to be very good.
 
toyota man said:
Hi all can someone talk me through what hardware DAC etc that I need to streem music from my macbook to my hifi using my ipad as my remote as well as flick through my itunes I have no idea whats required many thanks for your help Ive got 2k to play with and I am sure you know that I love my blues rock metal folk . is there a way which I can run a system without my pc switched on as you can tell I am new to the idea of streeming music :cheers:

Basically you will need three things.

1. Somewhere to store your music files. You can use your computer, a NAS drive or if you use iTunes you can store them in the 'iCloud' and stream them over the internet every time you want to listen to them.

2. If you use a NAS drive or the iTunes cloud you will need a streamer to transfer your music files. If you use your computer you won't need a separate streamer because a computer is able to function as a streamer.

3. You will need a DAC to convert your digital music files into an analog signal that your amplifier will be able to accept. However you probably won't need to buy a separate DAC as most streamers already have one built in to them.

Something like the Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 is one option of a streamer/DAC that may be worth your consideration. It also has an iPad app so that you can control it with your iPad.

There are many other streamers and options such as the Sonos which are available too. You certainly won't need to spend anywhere near £2000 though.
 
RobinKidderminster said:
Does op want to ditch his £2k speakers etc?
No I love my system ATM its just that with more than 3000 cds my Son has left all his in his old bedroom I just want to tidy up a bit + I am lazy all this keep getting up and looking through cds is hard work :rofl: Thanks for replys every one I am now going to research streemers :cheers:
 
toyota man said:
RobinKidderminster said:
Does op want to ditch his £2k speakers etc?
No I love my system ATM its just that with more than 3000 cds my Son has left all his in his old bedroom I just want to tidy up a bit + I am lazy all this keep getting up and looking through cds is hard work :rofl: Thanks for replys every one I am now going to research streemers :cheers:

good luck with that !!

if I had to re rip my CDs (only about 800), I think I'd only bother with the ones I couldn't get on Spotify.
 
steve_1979 said:
if you use iTunes you can store them in the 'iCloud' and stream them over the internet every time you want to listen to them.

If you mean the iTunes Match service, then speaking as an existing subscriber, at this point in time I personally would give it a very wide berth as primary source. It just about passes muster as a method of accessing your music on a protable device while you are away from your local network, but that's all it's good for, definitely not as a primary source. It's not the sound quality as such, it's how the service works. By its very nature it's flawed and is unlikely to be truly satisfactory as a primary source unless your library chiefly consists of iTunes downloads.
 
toyota man said:
...its just that with more than 3000 cds my Son has left all his in his old bedroom I just want to tidy up a bit + I am lazy all this keep getting up and looking through cds is hard work

Ripping 3000 CDs is going to be a big job that will take quite a long time. It is worth it though because once it's done it makes listening to music so much easier.

Also, don't forget to make sure that you make at least two backup copys of your digital music files just in case you accidently delete them or the harddrive that they're stored on stops working. Ripping all your CD's will take a while so you won't want to do it twice.
 
atticus said:
I ripped all my CDs to harddrive (and now store them in the airing cupboard, just in case!) I have an iPad 2 and stream the music through my broadband (Plusnet Fibre) to an Apple TV (a streaming device, not a TV, in case you didn't know).

How are you doing this Atticus? Are you pointing the iPad iTunes to NAS, or are you streaming from iTunes match?

I guess the question is, where is your music library?
 
MajorFubar said:
steve_1979 said:
if you use iTunes you can store them in the 'iCloud' and stream them over the internet every time you want to listen to them.

If you mean the iTunes Match service, then speaking as an existing subscriber, at this point in time I personally would give it a very wide berth as primary source. It just about passes muster as a method of accessing your music on a protable device while you are away from your local network, but that's all it's good for, definitely not as a primary source. It's not the sound quality as such, it's how the service works. By its very nature it's flawed and is unlikely to be truly satisfactory as a primary source unless your library chiefly consists of iTunes downloads.

I don't use iTunes myself so I've never tried it. But I do know of several people on the AVI forum who use it and they've found it to be both reliable to use and that there's no loss in sound quality either.

Personally I wouldn't want to use it because I prefer to keep my files stored locally just in case the internet stops working for any reason. But it is still a valid (although slightly flawed) option that's worth considering for anyone who's interested in streaming.
 
Overdose said:
atticus said:
I ripped all my CDs to harddrive (and now store them in the airing cupboard, just in case!) I have an iPad 2 and stream the music through my broadband (Plusnet Fibre) to an Apple TV (a streaming device, not a TV, in case you didn't know).

How are you doing this Atticus? Are you pointing the iPad iTunes to NAS, or are you streaming from iTunes match?

I guess the question is, where is your music library?

Hello Overdose,

iPad Remote App controls iTunes on PC upstairs. Music files stored on 2TB external drive.

Hope that is clear.
 
toyota man said:
Hi all can someone talk me through what hardware DAC etc that I need to streem music from my macbook to my hifi using my ipad as my remote as well as flick through my itunes I have no idea whats required many thanks for your help Ive got 2k to play with and I am sure you know that I love my blues rock metal folk . is there a way which I can run a system without my pc switched on as you can tell I am new to the idea of streeming music :cheers:

Will/can your Macbook be physically close to your hifi? If it is, then you don't need a streamer, just a dac with optical or usb input. Plug dac between Mac and amp, control iTunes via remote app on iPad. That's it.
 
MajorFubar said:
steve_1979 said:
if you use iTunes you can store them in the 'iCloud' and stream them over the internet every time you want to listen to them.

If you mean the iTunes Match service, then speaking as an existing subscriber, at this point in time I personally would give it a very wide berth as primary source. It just about passes muster as a method of accessing your music on a protable device while you are away from your local network, but that's all it's good for, definitely not as a primary source. It's not the sound quality as such, it's how the service works. By its very nature it's flawed and is unlikely to be truly satisfactory as a primary source unless your library chiefly consists of iTunes downloads.

I use iTunes Match all the time. It occasionally skips but I have copies on both a Wi Fi'd laptop & wired to router PC. ITunes Match like most things in life, has limitations: it has an annual fee of £22; it d/L's at a max of 256k regardless of what your iTunes originals were coded at & is by Apple. I use an Apple TV2 that also streams video up to 720p via HDMI to my plasma & optical to my M-DAC. I no longer have analogue sources so don't need a preamp/integrated.

The ATV has further advantages such as being able to see what's playing or scroll through your music menus on your TV, can be controlled from most Apple devices without the need for a TV. I've also used Spotify through my ATV. It costs £99 but does need a DAC. Be warned that the ATV3 doesn't work with some DACs such as the M-DAC & others based on the ESS chipset & that Apple have no plans to fix the issue until the next ATV is launched. Sonos is also a great solution, especially for multi room setups & would be my recommendation. You can spend well over £2k on dedicated streamers if you wish - some have good quality power amps built in. You have many options so I suggest some further research.
 
Have just reread your original post (I'm slow due to flu) & note you are already using iTunes so unless you have to have wireless connection, you don't need an ATV but a USB DAC. The Dragonfly or Meridian DACs spring to mind. See the current copy of WHF for DAC options!
 
atticus said:
Overdose said:
atticus said:
I ripped all my CDs to harddrive (and now store them in the airing cupboard, just in case!) I have an iPad 2 and stream the music through my broadband (Plusnet Fibre) to an Apple TV (a streaming device, not a TV, in case you didn't know).

How are you doing this Atticus? Are you pointing the iPad iTunes to NAS, or are you streaming from iTunes match?

I guess the question is, where is your music library?

Hello Overdose,

iPad Remote App controls iTunes on PC upstairs. Music files stored on 2TB external drive.

Hope that is clear.

It is thanks.
 
mickelous said:
busb said:
Be warned that the ATV3 doesn't work with some DACs such as the M-DAC

Not true, I have an ATV3 that works perfectly with my M-DAC.

I tried 2 different ATV3s from the Apple shop closest to me - it kept cutting out but hell, don't take my word for it - go read the PFM threads where the designer, John Westlake acknowledges the issue despite a few users reporting no probs. I rang Apple support in Ireland who also acknowledged the problem & were frank enough to state that it was going not to get fixed with the ATV3 - probably a hardware issue. Both the ATV3's audio worked perfectly via HDMI then fed back out from my plasma's optical audio out but will a small but noticeable drop in quality. Doing it this way also meant my TV had to be on, which like many plasma TVs, buzz.

Rather than stating to the OP that he may encounter problems, I chose the wording I did. No one seems to know how many ATV3's have this issue & because of Apple shops returns policy, I may buy another one to see if I get lucky but my ATV2 works fine, albeit with 720p video instead of 1080p.
 
toyota man said:
Hi all can someone talk me through what hardware DAC etc that I need to streem music from my macbook to my hifi using my ipad as my remote as well as flick through my itunes I have no idea whats required many thanks for your help Ive got 2k to play with and I am sure you know that I love my blues rock metal folk . is there a way which I can run a system without my pc switched on as you can tell I am new to the idea of streeming music :cheers:

Back to the original question. Actually you are asking about three things: getting hifi music from your Mac to your hifi (i.e., a DAC), using your iPad as a remote, and whether you can fix it so that you can listen to your library without switching on your computer. Each is a separate issue:

1. Getting hifi music out of your computer. IF you leave your computer on, this is easy - buy a DAC and a cable to connect the MacBook's optical out to the optical in connector on the DAC. There are many good DACs reviewed on this site; almost any will do the job. I am a big fan of the Benchmark DACs - may be overkill but if you have a great hifi, you will be hard-pressed to find a better DAC for under four grand. Even some of the less-expensive DACs are great - I am thinking of Cambridge and Musical Fidelity here (the latter similar to the former, but a little less bright). Whatever you buy, make sure it has an optical (or Toslink) in and not just USB.

If you don't want to keep your computer plugged in, you still want the DAC, but you need something to plug in to replace the computer (i.e., something that pulls the music from your computer remotely and sends it to the DAC. The best options are already in this thread: AppleTV, Sonos, Squeezebox (now discontinued), Airport Express. Since you want to use your iPad as remote, I recommend one of the two Apple solutions - AppleTV if you also use this for video, and the Express if it's just music. The third-party streaming solutions are more flexible but unneeded if you're using the iPad and leaving your computer turned on.

2. Using the iPad as a remote. As long as you are following the advice in #1, this is easy. Download the app, from Apple on the App Store, called Remote. It's free and works perfectly as long as you are playing music, from iTunes, from a computer somewhere in your home.

3. Doing it with the computer switched off. If you want to make this possible, then basically none of the above is going to work and you need to do it differently. The way you do it is to put all of your music on a type of external drive called a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device. These aren't too expensive and they are easy to set up - it is just a big hard drive that plugs into your home network, not needing it's own computer. Thus if the computer is powered down, the NAS is still running, and other devices can access it (having a NAS device is nice, since you can set Time Machine on your Mac to automatically backup to the NAS once a week or whatever - it's very useful even outside of music).

Most NAS devices (check out the Synology range e.g.) are set up to do music streaming, and will come with documention of how to move a big music library onto it, and even how to set up basic streaming solutions. So that part, despite sounding initimidating if you aren't a computer bloke, is really no problem. The problem is that you now need some kind of control mechanism - once you are streaming from an NAS instead of a computer running iTunes, ATV, Remote, and Airport Express no longer can do the job. So you need some kind of a computer at the front end - not just to stream the music data to your DAC, but also to be able to search for and select songs, fast forward, etc.

Thus, the profusion of 'streamers' - boxes that solve this problem. Many of them (Naim's for example) have their own iPad app...but the boxes tend to be expensive. The 'Connect' product from Sonos is great value - this is a box that streams music from any computer or NAS in your home, plus gives you access to all of the internet services (such as Spotify) directly, without a computer. Best of all, it has its own iPad app so it ticks that box as well.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

If you are happy to use your computer as a source, all you need is a good DAC and the Remote app. If you want to keep the computer physically separate from the hifi, add an Airport Express or AppleTV.

If you want to make this possible without a computer, buy an NAS drive and a generic hard drive or two, a Sonos Connect, download the Sonos iPad controller app, and a good DAC.

To do the latter for two grand is easily possible:

- Synology Diskstation: £346.73 from Amazon including 4TB worth of drives (2 x 2TB)

- Sonos Connect: £377.00 from Amazon

- Benchmark DAC1: £895 from Audio Affair

This is a flexible, very high-end solution with plenty of knock-on benefits. The one other option that becomes obvious here is that a Mac Mini is cheaper than the Synology/Sonos combo...you could just use a Mini > DAC as your system, get the music off your laptop, and then you can control it with your iPad or just send the video to your TV and use it directly. You now have a second computer dedicated to your music. Either solution will sound great and is well under your budget.

Hope this was helpful to the OP and others trying to do the same thing...
 
Synology DS Audio can stream direct to an iPad. Therefore some kind of iPad dock attached to the amp plus the Synology NAS is all that's required.
 

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