Can one turntable sound better than another?

[Vladimir]

Ha? What's this guy on about?

How can one turntable sound better than another?

 

[Native_bon]

Ha? What's this guy on about?

How can one turntable sound better than another?

I watched that video about a week ago and it does put a lot into perspective.

 

[Vladimir]

Just finished watching it. The platter thing is confusing. The stylus isn't sending vibration to the platter. Its the motor and the spakers leaking vibration to the stylus via the platter etc. etc.

I agree with him about the insane prices.

 

[CnoEvil]

I haven't watched the Video....but I cut my teeth in the era where Vinyl was the predominent Source.

IME. The TT is the one area, where spending a substantial portion of your budget (well over a third), pays substantial dividends.

I suspect that highend TT are very expensive to tool up for and make...and sell in such small enough numbers, which keeps the prices sky high.

 

[Vladimir]

You can buy a complete car for $30,000. Fabricating a tonearm of any kind or a complete turntable is a joke. The reason why there's a $30,000 tonearm is because someone is willing to buy a $30,000 tonearm. It has nothing to do with production cost, R&D or skill level. His point in the video was does it make a difference, and someone who bought it said yes, it does.

 

[plastic penguin]

Given I've upgraded my table fairly recently, I dem'd quite a few around the same price point and... no. One doesn't necessarily sound better but there are small differences. How the question translates to vastly more expensive TTs is another matter altogether.

 

[MajorFubar]

You can buy a complete car for $30,000. Fabricating a tonearm of any kind or a complete turntable is a joke. The reason why there's a $30,000 tonearm is because someone is willing to buy a $30,000 tonearm. It has nothing to do with production cost, R&D or skill level. His point in the video was does it make a difference, and someone who bought it said yes, it does.

I guess one difference is $30k cars sell by the millions while $30k turntables sell by the dozens so the costs have to be distributed accordingly.

But fundamentally I can’t disagree with you. Same with expensive solid-state amps. I’m sure you couldn’t spend more than a grand at most on the individual components. ‘But our power transformers are bespoke and handwound by pixies from the finest copper coated in unicorn tears’…yeah, but only so you can justify the amp costing the price of a family car; in reality there’s no way they can be better than transformers churned out by robots in the far east to exact repeatable precision.

 

[nopiano]

These videos where folk prattle on for ages drive me nuts! I’ve therefore only listened to a couple of minutes, but I know he won’t persuade me. Like others, I grew up with LPs and every turntable sounded different from the next.

As a transducer - if you include turntable, arm and cartridge as a system - they sound as different as loudspeakers do. If he’s referring to the rotating bit only, then my bad for getting bored.

I don’t suppose anyone here has heard the SAT tone arm, a snip at US $28,000? I bet it’s good though.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18876-SAT-carbon-fibre-tone-arm-from-Sweden

 

[Vladimir]

These videos where folk prattle on for ages drive me nuts! I’ve therefore only listened to a couple of minutes, but I know he won’t persuade me. Like others, I grew up with LPs and every turntable sounded different from the next.

As a transducer - if you include turntable, arm and cartridge as a system - they sound as different as loudspeakers do. If he’s referring to the rotating bit only, then my bad for getting bored.

I don’t suppose anyone here has heard the SAT tone arm, a snip at US $28,000? I bet it’s good though.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18876-SAT-carbon-fibre-tone-arm-from-Sweden

Yesterday I spent 8h listening to music on my $200 AKG K701 cans plugged in the even cheaper $50 Lexicon Alpha. I didn't even bother to plug them in my dedicated amps, yet I enjoyed music till 3am and now I'm a daytime zombie.

God forbid I used a $28,000 tonearm, I would never leave the house and go deaf from priapism. I dare not even click that link, considering dollars are the ultimate reference for enjoyment derived from sound quality. *music2*

 

[Vladimir]

I guess one difference is $30k cars sell by the millions while $30k turntables sell by the dozens so the costs have to be distributed accordingly.

Not a $30,000 turntable... just the tonearm. I can buy a Patek Philippe watch for that money. Not mass produced, not simple, certainly not easy or cheap to make.

 

[Al ears]

I guess one difference is $30k cars sell by the millions while $30k turntables sell by the dozens so the costs have to be distributed accordingly.

Not a $30,000 turntable... just the tonearm. I can buy a Patek Philippe watch for that money. Not mass produced, not simple, certainly not easy or cheap to make.

For £28,900 you could buy a nice Tech Das Air force 2 turntable without tonearm.

Just saying.....

 

[Vladimir]

I guess one difference is $30k cars sell by the millions while $30k turntables sell by the dozens so the costs have to be distributed accordingly.

Not a $30,000 turntable... just the tonearm. I can buy a Patek Philippe watch for that money. Not mass produced, not simple, certainly not easy or cheap to make.

For £28,900 you could buy a nice Tech Das Air force 2 turntable without tonearm.

Just saying.....

Can I have just the knobs for $30k? Would vastly improve performance.

Neil Peart's sticks may sound woodier.

 

[stereoman]

Exactly ! Please explain to me the difference in sound between 400€ and 1500€ turntable ( with the same cartridge ) how much better in sound it can be. Actually, recently I changed my cart for Nagaoka MP 110. Sounds wonderful on my TEAC tn 300. Why should I spend a 1000€ more...as much as I get the difference in electronic and electrical systems I cannot get it really in Turntables. Ok , better arm, better motor but the sound ? Is it really so better when I spend 2000€ on a new one ? What about if I buy a 400€ new cart and mount it on my Teac.

 

[Vladimir]

What's the price/performance sweetspot for new TTs in the UK?

 

[MajorFubar]

as much as I get the difference in electronic and electrical systems I cannot get it really in Turntables.

Other way round for me. Great turntables demand great engineering, which costs a lot for products which sell in penny numbers (though I fully agree with Vlad that no engineering on this earth can justify a tonearm costing the price of a family car). Electronics on the other hand are different. There's a limit to how much money you can spend on a bag of transistors/resistors/capacitors, and it's surprisingly little.

 

[CnoEvil]

Exactly ! Please explain to me the difference in sound between 400€ and 1500€ turntable ( with the same cartridge ) how much better in sound it can be. Actually, recently I changed my cart for Nagaoka MP 110. Sounds wonderful on my TEAC tn 300. Why should I spend a 1000€ more...as much as I get the difference in electronic and electrical systems I cannot get it really in Turntables. Ok , better arm, better motor but the sound ? Is it really so better when I spend 2000€ on a new one ? What about if I buy a 400€ new cart and mount it on my Teac.

Back in the day, when Vinyl ruled (70s/80s), the conventional wisdom was there was a pecking order of importance: The TT body was more important than the Arm; and the Arm was more important than the Cartridge. Whether this view holds true today, I'm not sure.

The advice was also that you should spend around 50% of your budget on the TT and split the rest equally between Amp and Speakers.

 

[nopiano]

What's the price/performance sweetspot for new TTs in the UK?

I would say around £1,000 to £1,500 including arm and cartridge.

 

[nopiano]

Exactly ! Please explain to me the difference in sound between 400€ and 1500€ turntable ( with the same cartridge ) how much better in sound it can be. Actually, recently I changed my cart for Nagaoka MP 110. Sounds wonderful on my TEAC tn 300. Why should I spend a 1000€ more...as much as I get the difference in electronic and electrical systems I cannot get it really in Turntables. Ok , better arm, better motor but the sound ? Is it really so better when I spend 2000€ on a new one ? What about if I buy a 400€ new cart and mount it on my Teac.

I’d say the differences would typically be:-

a. Lower noise floor, less rumble, less hum.

b. Sharper transients and more accurate decay.

c. More natural sheen to strings and shimmer to cymbals.

d. More precise pitch, especially noticeable instruments such as piano and woodwind.

e. Possibly less record surface noise.

Not easy to express verbally, but you really can hear it in practice.

 

[Al ears]

Exactly ! Please explain to me the difference in sound between 400€ and 1500€ turntable ( with the same cartridge ) how much better in sound it can be. Actually, recently I changed my cart for Nagaoka MP 110. Sounds wonderful on my TEAC tn 300. Why should I spend a 1000€ more...as much as I get the difference in electronic and electrical systems I cannot get it really in Turntables. Ok , better arm, better motor but the sound ? Is it really so better when I spend 2000€ on a new one ? What about if I buy a 400€ new cart and mount it on my Teac.

I’d say the differences would typically be:-

a. Lower noise floor, less rumble, less hum.

b. Sharper transients and more accurate decay.

c. More natural sheen to strings and shimmer to cymbals.

d. More precise pitch, especially noticeable instruments such as piano and woodwind.

e. Possibly less record surface noise.

Not easy to express verbally, but you really can hear it in practice.

+1

A fair assessment.

 

[stereoman]

Exactly ! Please explain to me the difference in sound between 400€ and 1500€ turntable ( with the same cartridge ) how much better in sound it can be. Actually, recently I changed my cart for Nagaoka MP 110. Sounds wonderful on my TEAC tn 300. Why should I spend a 1000€ more...as much as I get the difference in electronic and electrical systems I cannot get it really in Turntables. Ok , better arm, better motor but the sound ? Is it really so better when I spend 2000€ on a new one ? What about if I buy a 400€ new cart and mount it on my Teac.

I’d say the differences would typically be:-

a. Lower noise floor, less rumble, less hum.

b. Sharper transients and more accurate decay.

c. More natural sheen to strings and shimmer to cymbals.

d. More precise pitch, especially noticeable instruments such as piano and woodwind.

e. Possibly less record surface noise.

Not easy to express verbally, but you really can hear it in practice.

+1

A fair assessment.

The proof is in the pudding...ok.