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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Cambridge Audio 4k UHD player
- Thread starter Series1boy
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davidf
Well-known member
bigboss
Moderator
Pretty certain it's made by Oppo again (given the similarity in looks) although without the DACs.
psurquhart
Well-known member
I can't quite get my head around the price either ?
No dacs as opposed to the Oppo with dacs and yet more expensive supposedly at £700.
If it is an Oppo in disguise and let's face it their last Blu Ray Player was - why buy this over the Oppo ?
No dacs as opposed to the Oppo with dacs and yet more expensive supposedly at £700.
If it is an Oppo in disguise and let's face it their last Blu Ray Player was - why buy this over the Oppo ?
if it's OPPO guts with CA software then any changes such as HDR over the HDMI input would be rolled out after OPPO. Also coming in at £50 more than the OPPO but wthout the DAC then where is the money going elsewhere in the system to justify the pricetag.
I have a few CA items which i'm very happy with but if i was buying for a name then OPPO wins.
I have a few CA items which i'm very happy with but if i was buying for a name then OPPO wins.
Former editors of WHF (Clare and Andrew) loved Cambridge Audio products and it's a brand that always seem to do well at WHF, I tried a so called ex-demo Blu ray player once the 751bd and that was not working probably, a whole load appeared on eBay which were re-furbished, put me right off them, not that I was really on them in the first place. Anything done by Richer Sounds spells trouble for me!
Designed without DACs for improved noise and picture quality! Noise? Really? I think they have to mean it's quieter than the Oppo surely? It would actually be a noisy picture because all 4k pictures are the same, right?
manicm
Well-known member
gel said:
I disagree. If you're buying a 4K player one would reasonably assume you would want the best possible picture quality, otherwise you would have a propensity of throwing money down the drain.
Otherwise buy a supermarket DVD player.
manicm
Well-known member
Whether this is essentially an Oppo deck or not is inconsequential (personally I don't think so). What is of consequence is that considering the excellence of the slightly cheaper Oppo 203, CA might have shot itself in the foot for the second time in a row. Its picture quality had better be otherworldly to justify the price.
I always maintained the CXU was a poor value at its price, and now barely a year later CA arrives to the party with a 4K player....without audio dacs. Last time it was Onkyo who tried to pull such a stunt?
I always maintained the CXU was a poor value at its price, and now barely a year later CA arrives to the party with a 4K player....without audio dacs. Last time it was Onkyo who tried to pull such a stunt?
manicm
Well-known member
Some thoughts as I have been making enquires with Cambridge about this player, and with Oppo about the 203/205.
As one can understand, both companies refuse to comment on the others products, but... from what I am able to garner...
Both the new Cambridge CXUHD player and the Oppo 203/205 use the Taiwanese manufactured MediaTek Soc main board, and the same transport.
Oppo is in fact, a subsidiary of BBK electronics - a chinese multinational. Oppo may 'design' in the US, but the parent company is chinese and the production is in BBK's chinese factories. Nothing wrong with that I might add.
Whilst Cambridge use the same Taiwanese Mediatek Soc, they do their own thing re tweaking and calibrating the audio and video side of things, and whilst they 'design' in the UK, their products are also made in China - possibly - but not necessarily, in one of BBK's factories - albeit that Cambridge state they use their own quality control teams in Chinese factories, without saying which Chinese factory...
One of my queries related to the playback of SACD's with DSD being converted to LPCM within the player and the frequency at which the LPCM stream would be output to match with my DAC, which will not accept frequencies such as 88.2 or 176.4, but rather 48, 96, 192khz etc.
In the case of the Cambridge I was advised that it would upsample to what was required to match my DAC, i.e. a 88.2khz output upsampled to 96khz, and in the case of the Oppo 205, it would actually (and disappointingly) downsample to 48khz..
There are differences in features that may impact the audio and picture quality.
The Oppo 205 has a special clock circuit on the 2nd, and audio only HDMI output, to apparently cut down on/lower jitter.. but we are talking small numbers of picoseconds of jitter, so in the real world v's the marketing blurb, whether one would actually perceive the difference in hearing is debatable.
Similarly, by eliminating the DAC's and with it the analogue multi channel audio outputs from the CXUHD, Cambridge claim less noise and hence better video quality. Again I don't doubt it, but whether one would actually see a difference that otherwise only shows up on an oscilliscope is debatable.
On a purely subjective note, having seen an Oppo 205 and the Cambridge CXUHD, on purely aesthetic grounds I really like the Cambridge player, and conversely would personally be reluctant to give the Oppo 205 shelf space; it is nowhere near as nicely finished as my Sony 9000 series ES SACD/DVD players, and looks like something that grew out of a cottage HiFi industry - not my cup of elegant tea at all.
Cheers
As one can understand, both companies refuse to comment on the others products, but... from what I am able to garner...
Both the new Cambridge CXUHD player and the Oppo 203/205 use the Taiwanese manufactured MediaTek Soc main board, and the same transport.
Oppo is in fact, a subsidiary of BBK electronics - a chinese multinational. Oppo may 'design' in the US, but the parent company is chinese and the production is in BBK's chinese factories. Nothing wrong with that I might add.
Whilst Cambridge use the same Taiwanese Mediatek Soc, they do their own thing re tweaking and calibrating the audio and video side of things, and whilst they 'design' in the UK, their products are also made in China - possibly - but not necessarily, in one of BBK's factories - albeit that Cambridge state they use their own quality control teams in Chinese factories, without saying which Chinese factory...
One of my queries related to the playback of SACD's with DSD being converted to LPCM within the player and the frequency at which the LPCM stream would be output to match with my DAC, which will not accept frequencies such as 88.2 or 176.4, but rather 48, 96, 192khz etc.
In the case of the Cambridge I was advised that it would upsample to what was required to match my DAC, i.e. a 88.2khz output upsampled to 96khz, and in the case of the Oppo 205, it would actually (and disappointingly) downsample to 48khz..
There are differences in features that may impact the audio and picture quality.
The Oppo 205 has a special clock circuit on the 2nd, and audio only HDMI output, to apparently cut down on/lower jitter.. but we are talking small numbers of picoseconds of jitter, so in the real world v's the marketing blurb, whether one would actually perceive the difference in hearing is debatable.
Similarly, by eliminating the DAC's and with it the analogue multi channel audio outputs from the CXUHD, Cambridge claim less noise and hence better video quality. Again I don't doubt it, but whether one would actually see a difference that otherwise only shows up on an oscilliscope is debatable.
On a purely subjective note, having seen an Oppo 205 and the Cambridge CXUHD, on purely aesthetic grounds I really like the Cambridge player, and conversely would personally be reluctant to give the Oppo 205 shelf space; it is nowhere near as nicely finished as my Sony 9000 series ES SACD/DVD players, and looks like something that grew out of a cottage HiFi industry - not my cup of elegant tea at all.
Cheers
bigboss
Moderator
If you check AV forums reviews (those reviewers are professional TV calibrators too), you'll find this in every single review:manicm said:
"As long as the player isn't doing anything it shouldn't be, the 4K images produced over HDMI will be identical from one player to another."
bigboss said:
Back in the days of DVD and composite, S-Video and component analogue video outs to an CRT display, there used to be quite a noticeable difference between a budget and an expensive DVD player - one assumes component quality, ability of the drive to pick up all the information from the disc with minimal error correction, and the digital to analogue circuitry with regards the video side of things would all be superior on the higher priced machine.
Of course with HDMI, it's all digital from disc to what is effectively a digital display with LCD panels, so in theory there shouldn't be any diffence in picture quality.
However, the same could be said of CD transports using SPDIF or Toslink to a digital amplifier; it's essentially a digital signal from disc to a digital amp, and so all transports should sound the same.
I did an matched level AB comparison between my 3 CD/DVD/SACD Sony players using SPDIF out into my Sony TA-DA9000ES digital amp, and to all intents and purpose on unfamiliar music, they sounded the same, despite a difference in cost from the cheapest to the most expensive of circa $2,500. And yet,,,, on disks and music that one knew really well, there was a refinement, subtltie and nuance to the sound that the cheaper player could not manage; broad strokes yes, but nuance and differences in tonal timbre, smoothness, detail resolution all favoured the more expensive players. A close thing, but the difference was there on critical listening to well known recordings.
Having said that, in a blind AB on unfamiliar music, I doubt one would easily pick the difference...
Similarly I think with digital video, I would hesitate to say that picture quality across different players will be absolutely identical, but rather more alike than dissimilar.
Probably diffcult to spot any real difference on unfamiliar films, but I would think the advantages of better quality transports, less error correction, compoent quality, circuitry design would all make small but subtle differences one might only notice on very well known films, and even then probably only noticeable in certain scenes - but it is likely to be there no matter how hard it is to easily detect visually.
Certainly if you want to run a calibration test disc and calibrate the player/and or display, the cheaper players offer at most one or two picture modes; if you want tight control over picture parameters for calibration purposes, then the likes of the Oppos and Cambridge players will offer a lot more control of picture parameters that can be adjusted to ensure accurate calibration.
That plus the noticeably better mechanical construction re casework etc, and a nicer remote, attention to sound as well as picture quality, would make a ES Sony, Oppo, Cambridge, or other 'high end' Bluray player an attractive prospect re ownership despite the higher price than more budget orientated offerings.
Generally, but not always, one gets what one pays for...
Just another thought on the video output from all 4k Bluray players being the same....
In theory, with a digital signal from the disk, via a digital interface to a digital display, yes.
But, no player is the equivalent of a straight wire with gain.
All players have video controls of some sort - be it the three picture modes on my basis Sony Bluray, or the more advanced picture controls on the Oppo/Cambridge.
And there is no 'direct' mode with this, so those circuits are always in operation and one assumes the factory default is a calibration setting that the engineers felt gave either the most authentic and natural picture, or perhaps on more budget models, the most impressive picture to sell on demonstration - who knows? If there is a 'standard' to which all players should conform re exact calibration I'd be happy to be advised of same - I'm certainly not aware of such.
Just as one can swtich a Panasonic LCD and a Sony Bravia LCD TV set into 'theatre' picture mode, with both sets then factory calibrated to give the best results for movies, they still look different to each other, and I have little doubt the same would apply to similar video circuitry in a bluray player.
Hence I cannot reaally see in the real world how the picture from different Bluray players can be absolutely identical to each other; more alike than dissimilar, yes, but absolutely identical, unlikely.
I am happy to be corrected though if others with more knowledge of how Bluray players are calibrated etc would care to comment.
Cheers
In theory, with a digital signal from the disk, via a digital interface to a digital display, yes.
But, no player is the equivalent of a straight wire with gain.
All players have video controls of some sort - be it the three picture modes on my basis Sony Bluray, or the more advanced picture controls on the Oppo/Cambridge.
And there is no 'direct' mode with this, so those circuits are always in operation and one assumes the factory default is a calibration setting that the engineers felt gave either the most authentic and natural picture, or perhaps on more budget models, the most impressive picture to sell on demonstration - who knows? If there is a 'standard' to which all players should conform re exact calibration I'd be happy to be advised of same - I'm certainly not aware of such.
Just as one can swtich a Panasonic LCD and a Sony Bravia LCD TV set into 'theatre' picture mode, with both sets then factory calibrated to give the best results for movies, they still look different to each other, and I have little doubt the same would apply to similar video circuitry in a bluray player.
Hence I cannot reaally see in the real world how the picture from different Bluray players can be absolutely identical to each other; more alike than dissimilar, yes, but absolutely identical, unlikely.
I am happy to be corrected though if others with more knowledge of how Bluray players are calibrated etc would care to comment.
Cheers
bigboss
Moderator
The general advice is to switch all artificial processing off (select standard mode for all options for example). So they don't come into play. I would suggest you read the detailed reviews on AV forums for UHD players.
bigboss said:
Thanks for that. Out of interest and for the OP and others, I attended a HiFi show in Melbourne today and spoke to one of the managers at Cambridge, out from England especially for the event.
He confirmed that the Cambridge CXUHD uses the same mediatek board as Oppo - and also used in Arcam, Primare amongst others.
Apart from that, everything is different to the oppo 203/205; different power supply, different transport, different audio boards and the calibration of the video is different as well.
Additionally it is not made in one of BBK/Oppos's chinese factorys, so the only commonality with the Oppo 203/205 is with the Mediatek motherboard Soc. and little else.
Cheers
bigboss
Moderator
Cambridge Audio have always distanced themselves away from Oppo, even though they're both made in the same factory.
Both players use the same chassis.
Both players use the same chassis.
bigboss
Moderator
Also, Cambridge Audio CXUHD is the only UHD player apart from Oppo that I'm aware of, that has an HDMI input. Same with their blu ray players too. Mere coincidence?
"Even though I quack and waddle, I'm not a duck."
"Even though I quack and waddle, I'm not a duck."
bigboss said:Also, Cambridge Audio CXUHD is the only UHD player apart from Oppo that I'm aware of, that has an HDMI input. Same with their blu ray players too. Mere coincidence?
"Even though I quack and waddle, I'm not a duck."
I personally met and spoke with Tom Groves, Global Sales Manager for Cambridge Audio. He was a very nice and approachable guy and we had a great chat about Cambridge products, the CXUHD in particular as I am researching to buy, and politics within the industry generally.
As a follow up of that meeting I also have his official email address at Cambridge for further contact if needed.
He catagorically stated that apart from using the same Taiwanese company Mediatek's motherboard as also used by Oppo, Arcam, Primare and I think McIntosh amongst others he mentioned, that the players (Oppo 203/205 & Cambridge CXUHD) are not the same and not made in the same factory as the Oppos. Of all people he should know, and he struck me as a very honest and decent guy, not given to making misleading or uninformed statements.
Obviously if one makes visual comparisons of the rear panel, they will look near identical, as being the same motherboard, the external connectors will largely be the same and in the same relevant places on a back panel.
It will be interesting to read of a hopefully soon review from WHF - if there are no differences in sound and picture quality I will be very suprised, given that WHF identified noticeable differences in sound and picture between the earlier Oppo and Cambridge Bluray players.
Cheers
bigboss
Moderator
Here's a link to the UL manufacturer certification for players manufactured by GUANGDONG OPPO MOBILE TELECOMMUNICATIONS CORP LTD -
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=AZSQ.E222192&ccnshorttitle=Audio/Video+Apparatus&objid=1075798402&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073984370&sequence=1
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=AZSQ.E222192&ccnshorttitle=Audio/Video+Apparatus&objid=1075798402&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073984370&sequence=1
bigboss
Moderator
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