Calibration Software
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andyryan03:
I've had spears and munsil reccomended!
Yes, that is a good calibration tool.
A cheaper option would be the THX Optimiser although I prefer the former - it is far more detailed.
I've had spears and munsil reccomended!
Yes, that is a good calibration tool.
A cheaper option would be the THX Optimiser although I prefer the former - it is far more detailed.
I've read up a little about this software and it sounds useful. on a couple of reviews its been suggested to use in conjunction with DVE but my concern here is that you may get conflicts???
andyryan03:I've read up a little about this software and it sounds useful. on a couple of reviews its been suggested to use in conjunction with DVE but my concern here is that you may get conflicts???
I understand what you mean. I would suggest you stick with just the S&M.
I understand what you mean. I would suggest you stick with just the S&M.
I note that S&M requires a Blue Ray player. With just a Sony HXD995 DVD Recorder available, would a THX DVD be the best?
AEJim
Well-known member
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
AEJim:If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
+1 for that. I use Calman and an i1Pro, but used to use Color HCFR which, quite frankly, is superb considering its free!
If you don't want to bother with the Colormeter or more importantly the steep learning curve associated with proper colour and greyscale calibration, stick with a DVE disc as mentioned above. The THX optimiser is 'OK' but only at a very basic level, and quite often doesn't produce proper reference settings; it doesn't even tend to get brightness and contrast correct.
+1 for that. I use Calman and an i1Pro, but used to use Color HCFR which, quite frankly, is superb considering its free!
If you don't want to bother with the Colormeter or more importantly the steep learning curve associated with proper colour and greyscale calibration, stick with a DVE disc as mentioned above. The THX optimiser is 'OK' but only at a very basic level, and quite often doesn't produce proper reference settings; it doesn't even tend to get brightness and contrast correct.
AEJim:
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
The Spears & Munsil Disc costs £25.00.
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
The Spears & Munsil Disc costs £25.00.
AEJim
Well-known member
Ronald Archiebald:
AEJim:
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
The Spears & Munsil Disc costs £25.00.
Yes, but you'll need a colormeter in either case to get proper results. Calibrating by eye can achieve ok results, but they won't be accurate. My TV has built-in calibration but it doesn't get you anything like the results of doing it correctly! You can get software with all the test patterns on without spending £25, look up AVS HD 709...
AEJim:
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
The Spears & Munsil Disc costs £25.00.
Yes, but you'll need a colormeter in either case to get proper results. Calibrating by eye can achieve ok results, but they won't be accurate. My TV has built-in calibration but it doesn't get you anything like the results of doing it correctly! You can get software with all the test patterns on without spending £25, look up AVS HD 709...
It all sounds beyond me. However, I have just spent a lot of cash on a Samsung 40 C8000 TV and should really try to get the out of it. Do individual TVs vary, or could I just look around for recommended settings?
AEJim
Well-known member
I wouldn't use other people's settings generally, there is usually quite a lot of panel variation. If it's all a bit daunting just do as others have said and try the free THX calibration offered on many Blu-Ray discs. (use Blu-Ray rather than a DVD if poss as HD has different colour bandwidth than SD).
AEJim:Ronald Archiebald:
AEJim:
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
The Spears & Munsil Disc costs £25.00.
Yes, but you'll need a colormeter in either case to get proper results. Calibrating by eye can achieve ok results, but they won't be accurate. My TV has built-in calibration but it doesn't get you anything like the results of doing it correctly! You can get software with all the test patterns on without spending £25, look up AVS HD 709...
I did not use any colormeter and to my eyes, the end results are stunning with both SD and HD material.
AEJim:
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
The Spears & Munsil Disc costs £25.00.
Yes, but you'll need a colormeter in either case to get proper results. Calibrating by eye can achieve ok results, but they won't be accurate. My TV has built-in calibration but it doesn't get you anything like the results of doing it correctly! You can get software with all the test patterns on without spending £25, look up AVS HD 709...
I did not use any colormeter and to my eyes, the end results are stunning with both SD and HD material.
AEJim:I wouldn't use other people's settings generally, there is usually quite a lot of panel variation. If it's all a bit daunting just do as others have said and try the free THX calibration offered on many Blu-Ray discs. (use Blu-Ray rather than a DVD if poss as HD has different colour bandwidth than SD).
Yes. Get a copy of the Terminator 2 blu-ray - the THX Optimiser is available there.
Yes. Get a copy of the Terminator 2 blu-ray - the THX Optimiser is available there.
Ronald Archiebald:AEJim:Ronald Archiebald:
AEJim:
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
The Spears & Munsil Disc costs £25.00.
Yes, but you'll need a colormeter in either case to get proper results. Calibrating by eye can achieve ok results, but they won't be accurate. My TV has built-in calibration but it doesn't get you anything like the results of doing it correctly! You can get software with all the test patterns on without spending £25, look up AVS HD 709...
I did not use any colormeter and to my eyes, the end results are stunning with both SD and HD material.
You would be amazed just how much better it can look after proper calibration! Have a read HERE as its explains in great detail the importance of correct calibration which can't be achieved by Eye alone.
AEJim:
If you wanted to calibrate properly there is good, free, downloadable software available - HCFR Colormeter. This will require a Colormeter though, which goes for around £80-100 for the decent entry level models, also much time and effort learning the process! It's well worth it in my opinion.
The Spears & Munsil Disc costs £25.00.
Yes, but you'll need a colormeter in either case to get proper results. Calibrating by eye can achieve ok results, but they won't be accurate. My TV has built-in calibration but it doesn't get you anything like the results of doing it correctly! You can get software with all the test patterns on without spending £25, look up AVS HD 709...
I did not use any colormeter and to my eyes, the end results are stunning with both SD and HD material.
You would be amazed just how much better it can look after proper calibration! Have a read HERE as its explains in great detail the importance of correct calibration which can't be achieved by Eye alone.
For a cheaper option have a look at the AVS HD software. It's free to download, and you can burn it to a DVD, but it can do HD patterns if your player supports it.
There are various options and should be something that will play in your player.
For the full experience you need THX glasses / filters, and meters, but without those there are plenty of patterns that will help you set the brightness, contrast, and sharpness, as appropriate which goes a long way to having a good picture.
I've found it got me a better picture than the THX optimiser and one of the things it does better is giving some good colour gradations so you know the contrast level isn't too high and eliminating colour detail.
There are various options and should be something that will play in your player.
For the full experience you need THX glasses / filters, and meters, but without those there are plenty of patterns that will help you set the brightness, contrast, and sharpness, as appropriate which goes a long way to having a good picture.
I've found it got me a better picture than the THX optimiser and one of the things it does better is giving some good colour gradations so you know the contrast level isn't too high and eliminating colour detail.
AEJim
Well-known member
Miker:Thanks. Are there any primers on TV calibration, suitable for a beginner?
The best I've seen is from "Curt Palme - Greyscale and Colour Calibration guide" (Google will direct you there
), pretty much covers it all for free...
The best I've seen is from "Curt Palme - Greyscale and Colour Calibration guide" (Google will direct you there
I've skipped through and saved the Dummies guide which I will have to read again slowly. It looks as though I will need to buy a colormeter and the DVE disk, and download the HFCR software. I assume that the S&M software replaces the latter two items. Which is the easier to use, or is it "You pays your money and takes your choice". I take it that I will also need a Blue Ray player but that is on my Christmas shopping list anyway.
Miker: . . . S&M software . . . . .
As mentioned by AEJim, the "Curt Palme - Greyscale and Colour Calibration guide" is excellent, it tells you everything (almost) that you need know, to understand what you are trying to achieve.
The Spears and Munsil is (I believe) just an alternative to the DVE disc (i.e. a test pattern disk), HCFR is a full computer package that takes light and colour readings from a suitable colormeter, and displays the resulting data on bar charts and graphs, against industry standard targets.
kinda: For a cheaper option have a look at the AVS HD software. It's free to download, and you can burn it to a DVD, but it can do HD patterns if your player supports it.
As Kinda says, this is free, so you wouldn't need to buy the DVE or Spears disk either. HCFR is also designed to work with it so its a 'free + free' option - and I personally think it is a better test pattern disc than DVE anyway - why all test patterns don't have a flashing on/off pattern for brightness and contrast I don't understand, its so much better then static patterns.
As for needing a blu-ray player, you don't, you can calibrate without it, people still calibrated their equipment long before HD came along, you just need SD discs and test patterns (to the SD colour space - but I won't go into that here).
Finally despite what others have said here, DON'T try and calibrate by 'eye' - OK, fine for brightness and contrast (you have to do that by eye anyway), maybe colour and hue if you have the blue-filter glasses - but don't dip into greyscale, gamma or primary/secondary colour adjustment by 'eye' you'll end up no way near the correct settings, and probably worse than some of the set's 'standard' options.
As mentioned by AEJim, the "Curt Palme - Greyscale and Colour Calibration guide" is excellent, it tells you everything (almost) that you need know, to understand what you are trying to achieve.
The Spears and Munsil is (I believe) just an alternative to the DVE disc (i.e. a test pattern disk), HCFR is a full computer package that takes light and colour readings from a suitable colormeter, and displays the resulting data on bar charts and graphs, against industry standard targets.
kinda: For a cheaper option have a look at the AVS HD software. It's free to download, and you can burn it to a DVD, but it can do HD patterns if your player supports it.
As Kinda says, this is free, so you wouldn't need to buy the DVE or Spears disk either. HCFR is also designed to work with it so its a 'free + free' option - and I personally think it is a better test pattern disc than DVE anyway - why all test patterns don't have a flashing on/off pattern for brightness and contrast I don't understand, its so much better then static patterns.
As for needing a blu-ray player, you don't, you can calibrate without it, people still calibrated their equipment long before HD came along, you just need SD discs and test patterns (to the SD colour space - but I won't go into that here).
Finally despite what others have said here, DON'T try and calibrate by 'eye' - OK, fine for brightness and contrast (you have to do that by eye anyway), maybe colour and hue if you have the blue-filter glasses - but don't dip into greyscale, gamma or primary/secondary colour adjustment by 'eye' you'll end up no way near the correct settings, and probably worse than some of the set's 'standard' options.
I've read through the Dummies guide and think that I get the drift of it. What I'm wondering is how the 10p White Balance setting interacts with the HCFR software. I agree that I will need a colormeter and am thinking of the i1/LT as recommended. The free AVS disc seems to require a Blue Ray player which will give me the excuse to buy one.
On ACM, I can only find mention of R, G and B under Colour Space in the Samsung Series 8 usermanual so take it take it that secondary colours cannot be adjusted.
On ACM, I can only find mention of R, G and B under Colour Space in the Samsung Series 8 usermanual so take it take it that secondary colours cannot be adjusted.
Miker:
I've read through the Dummies guide and think that I get the drift of it. What I'm wondering is how the 10p White Balance setting interacts with the HCFR software. I agree that I will need a colormeter and am thinking of the i1/LT as recommended. The free AVS disc seems to require a Blue Ray player which will give me the excuse to buy one.
On ACM, I can only find mention of R, G and B under Colour Space in the Samsung Series 8 usermanual so take it take it that secondary colours cannot be adjusted.
As far as I can tell from a quick google of the 8000 series, the 10p setting relates to greyscale. I am assuming you should have an option to turn this 'on', which should then give you access to 10 point greyscale (from 10 IREor 10%, to 100 IRE or 100%). You can then adjust the RGB content at each greyscale point untill you achieve 6500k at each point for your chosen gamma level.
I would guess that there are two sets of menus. The one you are seeing probably shows the gain and offset levels for RGB, these are overall settings that affect all greyscale points, but should be used to get 80 IRE (which is more affected by movements in the gain settings) and 30 IRE (which is more affected by the offset settings) roughly correct.
There should then be an additional menu somewhere; it might be labelled as 'Advanced' or 'ISF' or something. Or you might need a special sequence of button presses on the remote to access it (if Samsung have locked it from the ordinary user). This menu should then give you access to the 10 greyscale points (if you can't access them from the previous menu), plus access to change the primary and secondary colours themselves, here you may need to change the settings for each colour to push them to the correct points on the CIE Colour Gamut graph.
You may have to reiterate between greyscale and colour gamut a few times before you get to the point of accuracy you want to achieve, as all settings unfortunately interact with one another.
Where HCFR and the colormeter fit in is every time you make an adjustment to any setting, you take a reading from the meter. This is then displayed in HCFR on a graph or bar chart against the target you have selected (when you start the program up you have to select your target gamma and colour space). You then just keep adjusting the settings a few clicks at a time until the reading from the meter for that particular greyscale point, or colour is as close to the target as you can (or are happy to accept). It will never be exact (unless you invest in a very expensive meter) particularly below 20-30 IRE, but below a certain error level the differences can't be detected by the human eye anyway.
Before you start your calibration, you will need to ensure any picture processing modes the set has are turned off (e.g. dynamic contrast etc) as these will effect the results.
Here is a link to some calibration settings achieved used by someone else, I wouldn't use all their settings as panels vary, but it may give you an idea of what options to turn on and off,
http://reviews.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/samsung-c8000-calibration.html
I've read through the Dummies guide and think that I get the drift of it. What I'm wondering is how the 10p White Balance setting interacts with the HCFR software. I agree that I will need a colormeter and am thinking of the i1/LT as recommended. The free AVS disc seems to require a Blue Ray player which will give me the excuse to buy one.
On ACM, I can only find mention of R, G and B under Colour Space in the Samsung Series 8 usermanual so take it take it that secondary colours cannot be adjusted.
As far as I can tell from a quick google of the 8000 series, the 10p setting relates to greyscale. I am assuming you should have an option to turn this 'on', which should then give you access to 10 point greyscale (from 10 IREor 10%, to 100 IRE or 100%). You can then adjust the RGB content at each greyscale point untill you achieve 6500k at each point for your chosen gamma level.
I would guess that there are two sets of menus. The one you are seeing probably shows the gain and offset levels for RGB, these are overall settings that affect all greyscale points, but should be used to get 80 IRE (which is more affected by movements in the gain settings) and 30 IRE (which is more affected by the offset settings) roughly correct.
There should then be an additional menu somewhere; it might be labelled as 'Advanced' or 'ISF' or something. Or you might need a special sequence of button presses on the remote to access it (if Samsung have locked it from the ordinary user). This menu should then give you access to the 10 greyscale points (if you can't access them from the previous menu), plus access to change the primary and secondary colours themselves, here you may need to change the settings for each colour to push them to the correct points on the CIE Colour Gamut graph.
You may have to reiterate between greyscale and colour gamut a few times before you get to the point of accuracy you want to achieve, as all settings unfortunately interact with one another.
Where HCFR and the colormeter fit in is every time you make an adjustment to any setting, you take a reading from the meter. This is then displayed in HCFR on a graph or bar chart against the target you have selected (when you start the program up you have to select your target gamma and colour space). You then just keep adjusting the settings a few clicks at a time until the reading from the meter for that particular greyscale point, or colour is as close to the target as you can (or are happy to accept). It will never be exact (unless you invest in a very expensive meter) particularly below 20-30 IRE, but below a certain error level the differences can't be detected by the human eye anyway.
Before you start your calibration, you will need to ensure any picture processing modes the set has are turned off (e.g. dynamic contrast etc) as these will effect the results.
Here is a link to some calibration settings achieved used by someone else, I wouldn't use all their settings as panels vary, but it may give you an idea of what options to turn on and off,
http://reviews.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/samsung-c8000-calibration.html
Hi
I know the cheaper Spyder 3 doesn't work with plasma but does the eye-one display 2. The X-rite website just says suitable to calibrate LCDs, CRTs and laptops.
Vance
I know the cheaper Spyder 3 doesn't work with plasma but does the eye-one display 2. The X-rite website just says suitable to calibrate LCDs, CRTs and laptops.
Vance
Thanks again. I've now sorted out all the adjustment controls, including the secondary colours. The next step is to buy the calibration kit.
Up to the moment we have had the TV on the out of the box standard settings which seem fine for outside broadcasts such as Autumn Watch, but need dark glasses for Strictly etc. Changing to Movie seem to tone it down a bit, and looks much better for studio settings.
I did come across the above calibration settings but as it is for a plasma set, I thought it best not to try them.
Now to think about which Blue Ray player which I will ask about in another thread.
Up to the moment we have had the TV on the out of the box standard settings which seem fine for outside broadcasts such as Autumn Watch, but need dark glasses for Strictly etc. Changing to Movie seem to tone it down a bit, and looks much better for studio settings.
I did come across the above calibration settings but as it is for a plasma set, I thought it best not to try them.
Now to think about which Blue Ray player which I will ask about in another thread.
michael hoy
Well-known member
vanceg:
Hi
I know the cheaper Spyder 3 doesn't work with plasma but does the eye-one display 2. The X-rite website just says suitable to calibrate LCDs, CRTs and laptops.
Vance
Vance,
The Spyder 3 does work with Plasma, I have one.
Hi
I know the cheaper Spyder 3 doesn't work with plasma but does the eye-one display 2. The X-rite website just says suitable to calibrate LCDs, CRTs and laptops.
Vance
Vance,
The Spyder 3 does work with Plasma, I have one.
michael hoy:
Vance,
The Spyder 3 does work with Plasma, I have one.
The spyder 3 is in the lap of the gods as to how well its calibrated though. My Eye 1 is definitely more accurate than my Spyder 3
Vance,
The Spyder 3 does work with Plasma, I have one.
The spyder 3 is in the lap of the gods as to how well its calibrated though. My Eye 1 is definitely more accurate than my Spyder 3
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