Calibration Discussion.

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tele1962

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ellisdj said:
That's why the Masciator disc was recommended its much newer than AVS and designed with newer Panny plasmas in mind.

i was recommended this for the VT - maybe the ST is different but it's worth getting the masciators disc and trying 4% APL and see how it works.

i also found 30ftl or 60 contrast colour -2 brightness is + 8 on mine - this is a sweet spot for this screen, with patience I got a 0.5 avg DE grayscale and damn near perfect flat gamma I mean damn near.

i also found when you take a reading with the menu on the screen it reads different so you have to shut the menu down when taking readings

otherwise it's off

Ellis just been looking at a couple of reviews mate and both recomend default for colour:

http://www.avforums.com/threads/panasonic-tx-p42st60b-reviewers-recommended-best-settings.1785807/

http://highdefjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=15513
 

ellisdj

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See if you can find what bumptious uses - he seems to know more than anyone I have read up on. He would be who I would have calibrate my set if I didn't do it myself

i saw he uses -2 colour on the VT that's why we tried it ( me and my cousin). I was very very very resistive but after trying and trying and trying I am converted.

lots other people settings posted on reviews had colour on default doesn't mean their right though. Most reviews are when the set is brand new out after a while people learn more about them and how to get the best out of them. Bumptious is one of them I don't really agree with the AVF posted settings for my VT - they adjust green in the white balance I never adjust green that's just adjusting luminance - there is no need to do this

the ST could be different to the VT though obviously.

just use your current cal then try -2 colour and look more at skin tones and skin detail than strong areas of colour. You will think the stronger colour areas look better with more colour but if skin tones / detail is more defined with -2 colour then it's obviously right.

when I say -2 I mean -2 from default so for me its colour 48
 

ellisdj

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theflyingwasp said:
an outstanding review for the anthem 710 on the av forum from Steve withers.

anthem 710

yamaha a3030

pioneer lx87

what to do what to do!

wait see what WHF say about it. They won't use arc though so it will be pure sound quality based review
 
ellisdj said:
At the time of praising the pioneer lx83 it was the best receiver I had heard and it is still better than what I said at the time yamaha z7 et al. It's still a very good amp

i have since heard proper hifi in the right environment and it was eye opening.

following this I have learnt more in the last 6 months than previous 6 years about the importance of power supplies.

i personally would not buy the 510 over the 710 having the linear in it makes it appealing. Having an smps doesn't. Having a proper linear power supply is expensive but it's worth it. People need to know the importance hopefully I am helping people.

if they can't afford it and can only afford the 510 there's nothing I can do about that - but that doesn't make the 710 not worth the extra.

if it doesn't make an improvement anthem have done something very wrong, but I already know what it's impact will be.

if you want to know what a linear does read up on Paul hynes he makes some of the best linears available.

Linear supplies are low noise - this means much lower jitter compared to smps even low noise / ripple supplies. Linear supplies give a much richer more organised and composed presentation and that just for a digital transport

I'm not doubting the superiority of linear power at all. I know you're passionate and have a deep knowledge of the subject. Your advice can come across as forceful, in a way that people choosing anything else will feel rather stupid. At least I feel that way.

When I demoed the 710 vs 510, yes the 710 was a bit more open but the difference wasn't as big as you're putting it. Personal demo is the best way, to determine if the buyer thinks the difference is worth the extra money.
 

ellisdj

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If you didnt think it was that much better then dont spend the extra money on it. I just say what I think. I am not going to be buying or even considering buying one - However the 710 is appealing because it has a a linear power supply.

Also the new arc lets you set what freqs to eq to - So you can set 250hz as the highest for it to go which I would do.

Secondly it will eq to a house curve - even though its not a linear hard knee cuve a house curve is still better than flat. This is an edge this system has for those who cannot do this themselves.

I personally setup my eq manually as I know whats happening then, I also use the minumum amoutn of eq I can get away with

Although looking at whats been posted ARC only displays freq reponse it doesnt display decay so while it may look like its making big changes, these changes could actually be detrimental.

Also it uses 1/3 smoothing of its graphs - while these look pretty they dont show the true story of whats going on in a room and what its actually doing.

However I suppose for simplicity its easier to get your head round - desnt make it right though

Differences heard or not heard is where other factors are maybe playing into the situation - either the implementation isnt great, or the setup wasnt great - or the room wasnt good enough to let you hear the differences properly I dont know

If you look at it from this point of view - the oppo 105 has a linear power supply the oppo 103 doesnt.

I know the 105 has better dacs and stuff as well - but out of the 2 only 1 is classed as a good analogue stereo product. Now home theatre isnt stereo but its sound reproduction all the same so the imprtant factors are the same for both. All the decoding, precossing pre amplification and amplification is all going on inside the receiver so the power supply is affecting every stage.

Linear supplies generally sound richer and fuller and cleaner as a starting point - but then what happens as the sound gets more complex the linear keeps its soundstage where the smps doesnt it sounds muddled by comparison. The smps is injecting noise into the system as well - noise or jitter whatever way you look at it.

You bolt that onto a pair of MA Apex for example and thats where you do or dont get levels of harshness depending on other factors

can smps sound good - yes but linears are 99.999999% of the time will be significantly better.

Thats is why its in there - it would have been cheaper for them to use an smps - these can provide multiple voltages, they are cheap to buy, can provide high power for low cost and low heat - but the higher the power drawn the more nosie created.

Consider that in the deisgn of a power amp? A 5 channel power amp for example - its pulling a lot of power.

The torodial is in there for best sound quality - its the flagship product. The av receiver does so much ina system, this is where big investment is worth every penny. Chances are it will be owned years and with extra effort over the time its possible to get max performance out of it.

This is just my take on it - maybe they couldnt get a smps to have more power so they put a torodial in there.

I am pretty sure its for sound quality - look at the design of their expensive power amps - all torodial based
 

ellisdj

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Something else I have thought of as well - ARC will boost frequencies in its eq - I am against this but it does it.

Its most likely to boost frequencies in the bass region as this where the largest errors will take place.

Boosting Frequencies requires amplifier head room - therefore you cant have enough amplifier power.

The 710-- has more power and this will be beneficial in this regard also.

Hopefully you can see my logic why I wouldnt buy the the 510 now and 710 even though 28% more expensive seems the better buy
smiley-laughing.gif
 
All your theoretical knowledge is fine. I can only talk from a personal demo, and reading through professional reviews. The 510 does not feel lacking in power at all, and people considering both should demo and compare for themselves.
 
T

theflyingwasp

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Is there any books you can buy on this stuff? Most of us have a basic understanding but is there some book etc that goes a bit deeper?
 

ellisdj

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The internet is the best book in the world. It has all the info you need or you can ask me lol

What do you want to find out more about?
 

ellisdj

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Its something I have read multiple times in relation to a subwoofer. Boositng frequencies then requires more of the amplifier.

It was this mindset that lead me to that conclsuion - trying to find more info using google is proving difficult - it keeps bringing up non related stuff

But I have taken this from the Meridian white paper on room correction

If you try to compensate for the
dips by boosting at those frequencies,you can easily run out of headroom inthe system. Imagine you have a 100Wamplifier. To cancel out a 10dB notch,you would need to trade that in for a
1000W amp

General jist of what I was getting at
 

ellisdj

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buy the 510 then if its good enough for you - but there is no doubt the 710 will be a much better product and worth the extra money if you want the best sound quality from the product. If they both had the same supply I would make you right,

But they dont - that torodial is in there to make the 710 an exception to the 510. Not to have people over
 

ellisdj

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Thast been updated since I learnt from it -- There is a ton to take in - it doesnt all make sense until you actually try and do it for yourself.

Then gradually you suss it out - I had to master it with less controls than you get on the newer displays.

If I were advsing someone learning I would advise leave the 10 point white balance alone initialy - just use the 2 point
 

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