Cables that I should not hear a difference with.

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bay24

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Aug 13, 2007
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Just wanted to share my recent experience in optical cables as I was a little surprised.

I have been swapping around cables a bit recently due to some difficulties with an airport express (still not sorted!!!) and after one of these tinkering sessions I was watching T.V and my attention was drawn to the sound and how much more detailed and seperated it was. I have always had my PVR connected to my 740C via optical as I listen to radio via freeview but this was with a very cheap cable which I have ad for some time. I also have my DVD player hooked up in the same way but with a QED performance optical cable.

Now I have read alot on these forums about how digical cables make no difference as it is all 0s and 1s and the difference is just in the listeners head and logically this did make sense to me but to my surprise there was quite a big difference to my ears. To me this is not just in my mind as I was not planning to test the two cables and only realy realised I had put the cables in the other way round after I had noticed the difference in sound.

I suppose that this little unplanned test makes me think that it would be worth getting a reasonably expensive digital cable in the future for digital equipment.
As always just my opinion.
 
I concur. Digital cables sound different to me as well. It's a real head scratcher. It's either more evidence that we are all self deluded fools or more evidence that there's way more to sound reproduction than we now understand. Your choice.

I will say that I've found no correlation between price and sound quality with digital cable. I'm using a rather cheap digital coax cable which I found to sound excellent even against pricier more HiFi alternatives I experimented with.
 
Thanks for posting bay24. Anecdotal evidence such as this, where you manged to do a blind test on yourself without realising is good evidence to show digital cables can make a difference. This is an instance for you to repeat in cable debate threads.
 
No doubt 'Cable Lover' will come on here and dispute this fact. In case you didn't realise if you can hear a difference in cables you are a deluded fool.

I'm a deluded fool as well, as my ears suggest differences in cables.
 
I have noticed a difference between coax and optical but can't tell between to different optical cables. Then again my ears aint the best. I wouldn't say there isn't a difference and respect other peoples findings, but I haven't noticed any.
 
JoelSim:

No doubt 'Cable Lover' will come on here and dispute this fact. In case you didn't realise if you can hear a difference in cables you are a deluded fool.

I'm a deluded fool as well, as my ears suggest differences in cables.

I would never dispute the fact that you thought you heard a difference.

Whether there is actually a difference or not, that I would dispute.

For all your pontificating about cable differences, there is another side to the story, one where people can't tell the difference, and especially in any blind test, including those who feel they have golden ears.

Anyway, how do you know the difference isn't in the solder or the banana plug? Have you tested different types against the same cable etc.? If not, how do you know that it's the wire that makes the difference?

I digress. There is no reason for digital cables to sound different. You need to understand how data is transmitted first, then you will realise why they can't. On the other hand, those who always claim to hear the differences never attribute it to basic changes in human physiology, or the psychology and physiology around hearing. And nor do they subject their experiences to scientific scrutiny.

That $1m is still waiting for someone like you to shock the scientific community. Go on, give it a go.
 
Cable Lover:JoelSim:
No doubt 'Cable Lover' will come on here and dispute this fact. In case you didn't realise if you can hear a difference in cables you are a deluded fool.

I'm a deluded fool as well, as my ears suggest differences in cables.

I would never dispute the fact that you thought you heard a difference.

Whether there is actually a difference or not, that I would dispute.

For all your pontificating about cable differences, there is another side to the story, one where people can't tell the difference, and especially in any blind test, including those who feel they have golden ears.

Anyway, how do you know the difference isn't in the solder or the banana plug? Have you tested different types against the same cable etc.? If not, how do you know that it's the wire that makes the difference?

I digress. There is no reason for digital cables to sound different. You need to understand how data is transmitted first, then you will realise why they can't. On the other hand, those who always claim to hear the differences never attribute it to basic changes in human physiology, or the psychology and physiology around hearing. And nor do they subject their experiences to scientific scrutiny.

That $1m is still waiting for someone like you to shock the scientific community. Go on, give it a go.

There you go.

I'm not surprised you can't hear any differences when you go through life with your fingers in your ears.
 
Cable Lover:There is no reason for digital cables to sound different

Actually there is, digital cables don't actually carry digital information as such, in the case of USB for example, they merely carry a representation of it known as Non-return-to-zero, inverted (NRZI) encoding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-return-to-zero

Also, concerning electrical digital cables specifically - they don't carry ones and zeros as people tend to think, but increases and decreases in voltage only. The cable has to be fast enough so that a proper representation of the digital data can be then re-constructed.

e
 
JoelSim:
No doubt 'Cable Lover' will come on here and dispute this fact. In case you didn't realise if you can hear a difference in cables you are a deluded fool.

I'm a deluded fool as well, as my ears suggest differences in cables.

deluded I must be! To be honest prior to this unplanned test I didn't think optical cables would make a difference but hey I do now! Ithink that it is not always the expensive the cable the better it will be, my £20 shb sounds better in my system than the £70 merlin cable I have, think it is more about what suits the system you have and the sound you like; what I mean is it is not necessarily better sound but different.
 
JoelSim:Cable Lover:JoelSim:

No doubt 'Cable Lover' will come on here and dispute this fact. In case you didn't realise if you can hear a difference in cables you are a deluded fool.

I'm a deluded fool as well, as my ears suggest differences in cables.

I would never dispute the fact that you thought you heard a difference.

Whether there is actually a difference or not, that I would dispute.

For all your pontificating about cable differences, there is another side to the story, one where people can't tell the difference, and especially in any blind test, including those who feel they have golden ears.

Anyway, how do you know the difference isn't in the solder or the banana plug? Have you tested different types against the same cable etc.? If not, how do you know that it's the wire that makes the difference?

I digress. There is no reason for digital cables to sound different. You need to understand how data is transmitted first, then you will realise why they can't. On the other hand, those who always claim to hear the differences never attribute it to basic changes in human physiology, or the psychology and physiology around hearing. And nor do they subject their experiences to scientific scrutiny.

That $1m is still waiting for someone like you to shock the scientific community. Go on, give it a go.

There you go.

I'm not surprised you can't hear any differences when you go through life with your fingers in your ears.

I am perfectly open minded. It's just that I'm waiting for someone to prove the differences. And I'm in good company with many people, including serious industry professionals, as you will discover if you do some research. The people pushing the differences seem to be those who have some type of commercial interest, and those that have fallen for the sales patter. This phenomenon/hysteria is not uncommon; it is what drives the reason why people think Rolex is the best watch in the world, and why people mourned Diana as if they knew her.

I am just not prepared to believe in foo faeries at the bottom of the garden as you seem to be at the drop of a hat.

I guess you also believe that Volkswagen is the most reliable car in the world, and Volvo the safest?
 
id also point out there have been a couple of threads recently where people have used there ears and have not heard differences between digital cables
 
Cable Lover:JoelSim:Cable Lover:JoelSim:

No doubt 'Cable Lover' will come on here and dispute this fact. In case you didn't realise if you can hear a difference in cables you are a deluded fool.

I'm a deluded fool as well, as my ears suggest differences in cables.

I would never dispute the fact that you thought you heard a difference.

Whether there is actually a difference or not, that I would dispute.

For all your pontificating about cable differences, there is another side to the story, one where people can't tell the difference, and especially in any blind test, including those who feel they have golden ears.

Anyway, how do you know the difference isn't in the solder or the banana plug? Have you tested different types against the same cable etc.? If not, how do you know that it's the wire that makes the difference?

I digress. There is no reason for digital cables to sound different. You need to understand how data is transmitted first, then you will realise why they can't. On the other hand, those who always claim to hear the differences never attribute it to basic changes in human physiology, or the psychology and physiology around hearing. And nor do they subject their experiences to scientific scrutiny.

That $1m is still waiting for someone like you to shock the scientific community. Go on, give it a go.

There you go.

I'm not surprised you can't hear any differences when you go through life with your fingers in your ears.

I am perfectly open minded. It's just that I'm waiting for someone to prove the differences. And I'm in good company with many people, including serious industry professionals, as you will discover if you do some research. The people pushing the differences seem to be those who have some type of commercial interest, and those that have fallen for the sales patter. This phenomenon/hysteria is not uncommon; it is what drives the reason why people think Rolex is the best watch in the world, and why people mourned Diana as if they knew her.

I am just not prepared to believe in foo faeries at the bottom of the garden as you seem to be at the drop of a hat.

I guess you also believe that Volkswagen is the most reliable car in the world, and Volvo the safest?

Note, you don't try to challenge Lonely Boy's post. First you ask for someone to explain a reasoning, then you get someone, and you then choose to ignore him and answer a nice easy post.
 
Just to mention it:

If you try measuring frequency respons, you'll find that while different cables will give you identical curves, only a slight movement of the microphone (say, less than 1 centimeter) will alter the curves.

In short, if you hear differences where no differences can't possibly be caused by the cables, there's more than enough going on in the room, when the sound travels from the speakers to your ears, to explain it -- without doubting basic scientific facts.

It's only the superstition that cables makes differences, that makes people blame the cables for phenomenons that's easily explained by them turning their heads or moving in their chairs.
 
Volkswagen IS the most reliable car in the world.

Surely as with anything manufactured there are differences in quality of materials used and quality of build? These would be the main answer for any questions of variation in sound quality surely?

I used to assemble fibre optic cables and can assure anyone who may be interested that variations in materials and manufacture do exist.
 
Fahnsen:
Just to mention it:

If you try measuring frequency respons, you'll find that while different cables will give you identical curves, only a slight movement of the microphone (say, less than 1 centimeter) will alter the curves.

In short, if you hear differences where no differences can't possibly be caused by the cables, there's more than enough going on in the room, when the sound travels from the speakers to your ears, to explain it -- without doubting basic scientific facts.

It's only the superstition that cables makes differences, that makes people blame the cables for phenomenons that's easily explained by them turning their heads or moving in their chairs.

Two doubters, both with AVI's. Is this because everything sounds the same unless it's an AVI speaker!?!
 
lonely boy:Cable Lover:There is no reason for digital cables to sound differentActually there is, digital cables don't actually carry digital information as such, in the case of USB for example, they merely carry a representation of it known as Non-return-to-zero, inverted (NRZI) encoding.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-return-to-zeroAlso, concerning electrical digital cables specifically - they don't carry ones and zeros as people tend to think, but increases and decreases in voltage only. The cable has to be fast enough so that a proper representation of the digital data can be then re-constructed. e

That is such a good post it is worth repeating.

Another point from before that is worth repeating is about solder and connections. You do have to take the whole construction of the cable into account and the connection is, if anything more important than any other part of the cable.
 
Cable Lover:

For all your pontificating about cable differences, there is another side to the story, one where people can't tell the difference, and especially in any blind test............And nor do they subject their experiences to scientific scrutiny.

That $1m is still waiting for someone like you to shock the scientific community. Go on, give it a go.

There have been so many sighted and blind tests done that it is not true. Just search the interenet and you will find tests done by everyone from forum members to hifi magiazines to the Boston Audio Society. They have come back with mixed results, but there is enough evidence, such as bays experience that starts this thread to suggest there is a difference, but we are not sure why or what causes that difference.

From what I have read about the '$1m' is that so many negotiations and terms and conditions are placed on any contender that the test is rendered meaningless and does not go ahead. After all there is a lot of money at stake and someone could just get lucky and guess.
 
idc:
lonely boy:Cable Lover:There is no reason for digital cables to sound differentActually there is, digital cables don't actually carry digital information as such, in the case of USB for example, they merely carry a representation of it known as Non-return-to-zero, inverted (NRZI) encoding.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-return-to-zeroAlso, concerning electrical digital cables specifically - they don't carry ones and zeros as people tend to think, but increases and decreases in voltage only. The cable has to be fast enough so that a proper representation of the digital data can be then re-constructed. e

That is such a good post it is worth repeating.

Another point from before that is worth repeating is about solder and connections. You do have to take the whole construction of the cable into account and the connection is, if anything more important than any other part of the cable. idc this doesnt apply to optical cables which is the subject under discussion

basically theyre runs of fibre or glass with a usually plastic plug at the end through which the fibre runs

even the fit is less important though its always a good idea to have a close fit

if you see an optical cable with gold ends be aware theyre there for marketing purposes only and avoid
 
Andrew, lock and key at the ready?

Too much slagging off here disguised as debate from a few posters, I feel.
 
healthy debate gt healthyndebate

what concerns me more is the apparent rise of the spanish inquisition
 
one off:idc:
lonely boy:Cable Lover:There is no reason for digital cables to sound differentActually there is, digital cables don't actually carry digital information as such, in the case of USB for example, they merely carry a representation of it known as Non-return-to-zero, inverted (NRZI) encoding.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-return-to-zeroAlso, concerning electrical digital cables specifically - they don't carry ones and zeros as people tend to think, but increases and decreases in voltage only. The cable has to be fast enough so that a proper representation of the digital data can be then re-constructed. e

That is such a good post it is worth repeating.

Another point from before that is worth repeating is about solder and connections. You do have to take the whole construction of the cable into account and the connection is, if anything more important than any other part of the cable. idc this doesnt apply to optical cables which is the subject under discussion

basically theyre runs of fibre or glass with a usually plastic plug at the end through which the fibre runs

even the fit is less important though its always a good idea to have a close fit

if you see an optical cable with gold ends be aware theyre there for marketing purposes only and avoid

Optical cables are better at transmitting data than electrical cables, but S/PDIF still has to be encoded into a modulated form, in this case BMC coding - Biphase Mark Code.

So again you aren't actually transmitting digital ones and zeros as with the other mentioned cables and you still have to overcome refraction and absortion of the signal, etc.

e
 
one off:idc:

lonely boy:Cable Lover:There is no reason for digital cables to sound differentActually there is, digital cables don't actually carry digital information as such, in the case of USB for example, they merely carry a representation of it known as Non-return-to-zero, inverted (NRZI) encoding.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-return-to-zeroAlso, concerning electrical digital cables specifically - they don't carry ones and zeros as people tend to think, but increases and decreases in voltage only. The cable has to be fast enough so that a proper representation of the digital data can be then re-constructed. e

That is such a good post it is worth repeating.

Another point from before that is worth repeating is about solder and connections. You do have to take the whole construction of the cable into account and the connection is, if anything more important than any other part of the cable. idc this doesnt apply to optical cables which is the subject under discussion

basically theyre runs of fibre or glass with a usually plastic plug at the end through which the fibre runs

even the fit is less important though its always a good idea to have a close fit

if you see an optical cable with gold ends be aware theyre there for marketing purposes only and avoid

The subject under discussion by lonely boy was digital and specifically mentioned USB cables. I was replying to that. I am sure you are aware by now that topics rarely stick to the original subject throughout the thread.

I take it that optical does not send its 1s and 0s as voltage variations, but as light on and off.
 
one off:

my comments were a correction to idcs comments not yours

Further to which the topic is cables that I should not hear a difference with, so I take that to include all cables.
 
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