Buying amp and speakers

[Amadeus1756]

Hi,

I'm looking to buy an AV amp and some speakers. I understand that there is the issue of matching the speakers with the amp, but what should I decide on first - the amp and then get speakers to go with that, or vice versa? I'm kind of thinking that I should go for the amp first but I'm happy to be convinced otherswise!

Many thanks

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Amadeus

Can you give some idea of budget and what it needs to include ie. do you need a sub, rack and cables.

Also: Size of speakers (depends on room size); does it need to cover 2 channel music; do you like a "warmer" sound or bright and detailed.

Without this sort of info, you are unlikely to get meaningful advice.

Regards

Cno

 

[Amadeus1756]

Thanks Cno.

I like watching films (rather than listening to music tho I will do so to some degree - more of that later), so thought I'd need a sub.

I'm looking at small speakers (personally I think they're ugly things), tho I appreciate a sub has to be quite big but I can hide that.

I'd like an AV amp with: Good DVD upscaling, Ipod connectivity, DAB (optional extra is fine), ethernet (wireless would be best but wired is ok), not too tall - < 20cm ideally. Was thinking I'd like THX sound but that's probably my age (Star Wars!) - the alternatives would almost certainly delight me just as much.

My music tastes are probably best described as "mixed"!: Opera, Classical (piano especially), Punk, Radiohead, Country; my wife likes the Sugar Babes. As I mentioned earlier, my main interest is film and I'm certainly no audiophile, so I'd have thought that a good amp and speaker combination would be ok for listening to music (but do shout if I'm being naive - I'm here for opinions, not to have my ego massaged). I think I generally like a warmer sound, tho that is contradicted somewhat by the odd blast of punk, but as I get older, it's more Beethoven than Buzzcocks, more Carmen than Clash, and more Shostakovich than Sex Pistols.

I play games on my PS3, and I also have a Topfield PVR (tho I'm hoping to replace this with the new Panasonic PVR with blu-ray burner once it's come out and assuming it's actually any good!).

My current room is my living room - 14' wide, 18' long, carpeted. I have just bought a Panasonic L32DT30 32" TV which I plan to plug into the amp and speakers, but this is probably only a temporary measure - we're looking to move house in about a years time and I'd love to be able to have a projector in a room to watch films and this equipment would almost certainly migrate into this more specific room.

I was thinking about £2,500 for the amp and speakers (5.1) - I would struggle to justify much more (to myself, let alone my wife!)

I am planning on buying a stand for our new TV - I've been looking at the Optimum Prelude (due to the amount of customisation with heights, colours etc).

When I buy something I generally keep it for some time - the old TV was bought in 1996, my stereo is a Teac Reference 500 (about the same time - maybe a year later?) with bi-wired CDM2 B&W speakers - all archaic compared to most equipment discussed here.

As I said, I'm not here to have my ego stroked, so any ideas from anyone are appreciated - even if it's pointing out something that is completely obvious to the more knowledgable people - you won't offend me. Obviously I'll audition any equipment before I buy, but I'm really not sure about the starting point!

Many thanks for reading this far!

Rgds

 

[CnoEvil]

Amadeus

That now gives a very clear picture of what you want to achieve, and is bound to lead to some good advice.

Rather than give specific models, I'm going with more general advice:

- Makes like Yamaha, Denon and Arcam are warmer sounding.

- Discontinued models can be had at very good value.

- IMO. The most musical "bang for buck" amp at the moment is the Arcam AVR500 (£1300)..... it's given a lot of trouble, but is now supposed to have been fixed.

-Work through a knowledgeable dealer, where you can get advice and hear what you're buying.

- THX has mostly gone out of fashion, so don't make it a priority.

- Your room is big, so don't go too small with the speakers....unless your new house will be different - though a projector needs reasonable space.

- This is a very personal view, but I would rather have 2.1 with much better speakers (like PMC) and add the rest later when funds become available.....this is one to test for yourself.

- Get a sub from a specialist company like BK (best VFM), MJ Acoustics, Rel or Velodyne.

Hope some of this helps

Cno

 

[Amadeus1756]

Thanks Cno - that's great info - I appreciate your thoughts.

I'm hoping I'll be able to find a dealer who will let me audition equipment in my own house, once I've given it a go in their demo rooms.

I'll look into all those thoughts - I can feel a massive spreadsheet coming on to record all my thoughts on what I see/listen to!

Many thanks again.

rgds

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks Cno - that's great info - I appreciate your thoughts.

I'm hoping I'll be able to find a dealer who will let me audition equipment in my own house, once I've given it a go in their demo rooms.

I'll look into all those thoughts - I can feel a massive spreadsheet coming on to record all my thoughts on what I see/listen to!

Many thanks again.

rgds

Home demo of a full AV system system is very problematical.....ie. full 5 speakers plus sub, all wired to an amp, installed and set up with EQ. The best to hope for, is to be able to return it for a refund, if it sounds nothing like it did in the shop....which is unlikely to be honest, due to modern EQ systems.

Lots of research usually pays a big dividend.

Cno

 

[Big Chris]

I too suggest £800 - £1000 on the amp and the rest on the speakers. I would also suggest that if you don't wish to fill your room with these "ugly things" (your words, not mine ), you should look at 'proper' speakers for the front pair (and centre if possible), and look at smaller style speakers for surround duties.

You should stick to the same manufacturer for all the speakers though. A few on here have done similar (professorhat comes to mind, running a full B&W system using the small M1 satellites for surround duties).

This way, you benefit from the superior stereo performance of conventional speakers, but don't have the hassle of finding space for an extra couple of chunky boxes at the back of the room.

Most mainstream manufacturers I can think of sell both conventional and style systems (Monitor Audio, Kef, B&W, Focal, Dali, Mordaunt Short......) And I know from experience of B&W that they sell their satellite speakers indivdually if required.

 

[bigboss]

There are some excellent 5.1 speaker packages with an AV receiver available at your budget. Look at Monitor Audio Radius HD speakers , like this for example.

If you think speakers are generally ugly, look at these.

For AV receiver, the leading brands for your budget are Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo and Marantz. Look at spending around £1500 for speakers and £800-1000 for the receiver. Don't worry about audio decoding. All modern receivers will decode audio (DTS MA, Dolby Digital etc.).

Once you shortlist your speakers and receivers, definitely demo the combinations. Receivers sound different to one another and people have one preference over the other. Buy what sounds best to you. Do an extended audition of the movie scenes you like, and the music you want to listen.

I've got Radius HD speakers with Yamaha receiver they're brilliant for both movies and music.

 

[Amadeus1756]

BigBoss, Cno & BigChris,

Thanks very much for all that information. It sounds like there is a consensus in how I should split the money - that's certainly good.

As I look more and more into this, I find out about brands I've never heard of before, so getting recommendations (or even ideas) from other people is invaluable.

BB: I've had a good peruse through the WHF speaker reviews; I rather liked the Focal Dome speakers (obviously need to do more than look at pics before I can decide!), tho the downside of those is that they don't have a flat top which is useful for all sorts of things - cup of tea, Christmas cards etc. I'll have a look at the Radius speakers as well - if they're good enough for you...

Cno: I'm assuming (hoping) that a decent provider of AV equipment will understand that someone would want to see how it sounds in their own environment and as long as it's apparent that they're not a tyre-kicker, a home demo period would be acceptable. As you say, it would seem unlikely to me that I'd be unhappy with it once I'd got it home but having that fallback would be a comfort to someone as cautious as myself.

Big Chris: I'd not considered a mix'n'match approach but it's a great idea.

I'm very happy to do loads of research (something my wife teases me about!) and all this information has given me a great starting point, so your input is very much appreciated.

As I think more about it and what I need to look at, I keep thinking about one of my original questions - what comes first - amp or speakers, or should I consider them as one thing? I guess if I determine the features I *must have* in the amp, that will give me a shortlist and once I've got that, then I can find speakers that go well with each of those - at which point I demo?

Thanks guys.

 

[bigboss]

tho the downside of those is that they don't have a flat top which is useful for all sorts of things - cup of tea, Christmas cards etc.

:O

 

[bigboss]

In your price range, your receiver will have all the features you need. Some receivers have Airplay built-in, some are THX certified which are not strictly necessary (of course, if you want to stream music from your iPod directly, the Airplay feature will be nice to have).

Think of the receiver & speakers as one unit. You can't match any receiver to any speaker system and expect it to sound brilliant. System matching is more important. Since the speakers will be the most visible part of your setup, decide on the speakers first, and then look for a receiver to match it.

In general, bright sounding speakers pair well with warm sounding receivers (Yamaha, Denon), & warm speakers will pair well with bright receivers (Pioneer etc.). However, in real world, people's preference may not strictly conform to this.

I would suggest to compare different setups in the demo room of your local dealer, & then ask for a home demo of the system you've finally decided. The dealer may ask for a nominal deposit.

 

[CnoEvil]

Home demos only really work with single componants like a pair of speakers or an amp....not a whole AV system + its set up.

Make a short list of amps (eg. Arcam, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha) and see what speakers are stocked by the dealer that you go to. Once you start auditioning a clear picture should imerge of what you like.....trust your ears, and remember that an initially "exciting" system can get fatiguing after a while. Also bring some CDs along to help assess the system.

I still have a concern that your room is too big for tiny style speakers. Remember that what works for a small demo room may not do so in a much larger one - a good dealer should be able to advise. As Big Chris has said, the rears can be much smaller if necessary, but get more substantial ones (from the same range) for the front three.

Don't forget the 2.1 route eg. Arcam AVR500 + PMC DB1i + BK XLS 200 sub.....Arcam + PMC sound fantastic for AV and Stereo. As I said this is a personal view, but I would rather do this and add at a later date, than compromise now. Other options will sound great until you hear something better (Arcam + PMC)....so be judicious in what you listen to.

Cno

 

[CnoEvil]

tho the downside of those is that they don't have a flat top which is useful for all sorts of things - cup of tea, Christmas cards etc.

:O

:O :O :O :O

 

[unfocused]

I've just bought a Marantz SR6005 which I've only had for a week, but is sounding really good and I would heartly recommend. I was also interested in a AV amp that had a DAB tuner and the Marantz has what they call the m-xport input that allows expantion modules to be fitted. So far there is a bluetooth module but a DAB one is promised.

 

[Amadeus1756]

BB: Thanks for the comments. There are a number of dealers within driving distance of where I live (Berkshire) - hopefully they will have different selections of equipment for me to audition.

Cno: The good thing about knowing very little about manufacturers and their reputation is that all I can go on is how it sounds to me so that kind of makes it a little easier in some respects. I'm actually thinking that when I get rid of the old TV, that will give space for bigger speakers, and I may even get rid of my TEAC system as most receivers will play music over DLNA or even Airplay (which would be very convenient). If I can't find any small speakers that I like, I will no doubt go for something larger. I'd prefer them small, but as long as they're not monstrously large, I'm sure I'll get used to them.

Unfocused: I created a pretty large spreadsheet yesterday with loads of options for the receivers tho as BB said, they pretty well all do what I'm looking for, so it didn't whittle the list down by much, tho the Marantz range did suffer, but if they are going to do a DAB addition, that'd bring them back into the option list. Don't want to make a purchasing decision on what they say they will do, but I'll look into it a little further, so thanks for the info. And your avatar reminds me - must listen to One Step Beyond again - not listened to it for ages but it's a great album!

And for all, I was being a little flippant about the cup of tea on the speaker...

Thanks again for all the comments guys - much appreciated.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi

looks like I am going through the same process but am just starting off the process with a lower budget!

Can i be really cheeky and ask if you could consider putting up your carefully made spreadsheet for the rest of us

Thanks

 

[Amadeus1756]

Rudraksh: Of course - no problem. I'll need to tidy it up a little but I'll try and get posted tonight if I get home at a decent time.

I think all the information given to me should be applicable to you as well - there is a lot of great generic information given by some knowledgeable people.

rgds

 

[Amadeus1756]

Sorry for the tardiness of my reply - not been around much over the last week. My, how much traffic there has been on the forum!

I can't see any way of posting or PM'ing you the spreadsheet, so not sure how else to give it to you?

Rgds