Build Your Own Server?

[harveymt]

I've been looking at getting a NAS for some time. I've currently got about 500GBs stored on my desk top PC, all in Apple Lossless. I can pick up a Buffalo 1TB NAS for £120.

I currently don't have video stored on computer but Im presuming that may become more common and I'll start doing that eventually. Also, if a some sort of unlimited pay monthly download service starts up with high quality downloads, I would expect that 500GBs to increase rapidly.

That all leads me to thinking that if I do buy a NAS then at some point it will fill up and I'll have to buy another bigger one. Buying a brand name NAS is always an expense.

That got me to thinking about building my own server. I've read round a few forums about it but they're not very 'noob' friendly so Im hoping someone might answer a few basic questions.

I have two old desktops sitting about which I can strip stuff out of. If I use one of those cases, can I use the existing motherboards, RAM etc? Is it then just a matter of adding in new hard drives? Can I add just as many as I can fit?

Do they all have to be the same size? I could start off with one drive then add more as I go along or get say, 3 or 4 500GB drives and as money/price drops allowed I could swap them out for bigger drives, say 1.5 or 2TB. This would mean I could end up with 3 or 4 different sized drives.

I've read up about RAID and it seems to be a lot of hassle. I was thinking that instead I just back up to other hard drives as and when I had added significant amounts of new data to the drive. I could keep these secure somewhere. Again, could I use an older computer, fixed up as a server that I could back up stuff too periodically and then switch off and put away somewhere securely?

Software wise, FREENas appears to be ok and free.

I take it I can use any computer to access the server and transfer files to?

The server can be left on all day and could accessed by any computer on the network to play the tunes or video. I'd be streaming to an Airport Express on the main hi-fi, with a DAC added at some point.

Ton of questions there. If Im way off with anything there let me know.

Also looking forward to getting one of those cases with the illuminated, fan and water cooled psu. It'll be a lovely feature in the living room.

 

[rs6mra]

I looked into doing the same thing also and concluded but it is better to buy as NAS and farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr less hassle, space saving etc etc

None of us are perfect so having a RAID configuration would be worthwhile rather than relying on oneself to do the backups whenever you think necessary.

 

[nads]

If you are not RAIDing you can use any number and size of drive.

my issue was that the PC based servers tend to use more power than a a NAS type. they can also make more noise (mainly the power supply fan).

I am looking to make a new silent server, or buy one, just for music and to run SBS (squeezebox server) which means that i will need some processing power for any transcoding etc.. If it was just a NAS and did not need to run SBS then just about any Nas will do as it is just a storage box

yes you can set things so that you can access it from anywhere .

I am still looking at options so that is all i have now, sure others have done this so more info should be forth coming.

 

[professorhat]

To be honest, what you're describing is a NAS. A NAS basically is a server with lots of disk space. Most of the consumer NAS devices run a cut down OS which just specifically allows the user to share the drive, setup RAID etc., but in the corporate world, a number of manufacturers do Windows based NAS devices as well.

If I were you, I would just get one of the consumer NAS devices. It'll be a lot less hassle, a number of them allow you to swap the hard disks out as required to increase the disk space (just as you would with your server). A lot of them also have USB ports which allow you to attach USB drives and further increase the storage available. When you consider the cost, this is certainly a lot less hassle and also allows you to have a RAID system in place should you wish.

It's worth pointing out again though that RAID is not a backup facility, it's a redundancy facility. RAID protects you against a drive failure. Nothing more. Should you accidentally delete a file or if a file gets corrupt, or if a power surge destroys your NAS, RAID will do nothing to protect your data in these cases - only a backup will. So don't use RAID as a replacement for a proper backup system unless you're happy with the risk this presents.

 

[The_Lhc]

harveymt: That all leads me to thinking that if I do buy a NAS then at some point it will fill up and I'll have to buy another bigger one. Buying a brand name NAS is always an expense.

No you wouldn't, if you've got a NAS with two drives in a RAID 1 configuration (mirrored), most of them now will allow you to pull one drive out and replace it with a larger one, the larger drive will then synchronise with the smaller one, once that's finished you can then pull the smaller drive and replace it with another larger one which will then sync with the other larger hdd. It'll take a few hours for all the syncing but at the end of it you've got bags more space. You can keep doing that for as long as newer bigger drives remain compatible with the NAS box.

 

[harveymt]

I was aware that RAID is not the total solution. That's why I wanted to have a separate drive that I could back up every month or so for new stuff.

So the server is a bit of hassle. Could I use one of my old computers to do it though for an experiment? If I install Freenas on it and can get it to work then I could buy more drives for more storage. If it doesn't work then I've not wasted any money.

 

[professorhat]

harveymt:Could I use one of my old computers to do it though for an experiment? If I install Freenas on it and can get it to work then I could buy more drives for more storage. If it doesn't work then I've not wasted any money.

Absolutely - no harm in trying if you have the time and inclination! Basically what you're doing is creating a NAS yourself rather than buying one off the shelf.

 

[The_Lhc]

harveymt:I was aware that RAID is not the total solution. That's why I wanted to have a separate drive that I could back up every month or so for new stuff.
So the server is a bit of hassle. Could I use one of my old computers to do it though for an experiment? If I install Freenas on it and can get it to work then I could buy more drives for more storage. If it doesn't work then I've not wasted any money.

If it's an old IDE box then you're limited to 4 drives, including the CD/DVD drive, so it might not be that useful and if you are going to do RAID you're probably looking at software RAID, so your performance could be heavily impacted depending on how weak your processors are.

Be interesting to hear your thoughts though.

 

[harveymt]

hould the server not work and I buy a NAS. Most have one USB
connection on the back? Could I use one of these to add more than one
drive to the NAS?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=46798&C=SO&U=strat15

Would
having a few USB drives attached to NAS slow it down?

A
neater solution would be

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Edgestore-31745-2TB-USB-DAS400/dp/B001HSO4H4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268392788&sr=1-1

I
could slid in whatever drives I wanted and attach to the NAS.

There
is a cheaper 5-BAy one with an eSATA connection

http://www.amazon.co.uk/EdgeStore-DAS501T-Bay-eSATA-Enclosure/dp/B001H54JX6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268391554&sr=8-5

Are
there NAS drives with eSATA connections to attach this to?

 

[The_Lhc]

harveymt:hould the server not work and I buy a NAS. Most have one USB connection on the back? Could I use one of these to add more than one drive to the NAS?

You can but it won't be part of the RAID set, so whatever is on that drive will be vunerable to drive failure. I think the usual philosophy for these connections is to use the USB drive as a backup for the NAS rather than additional storage. It will depend on the NAS though, they'll implement it in different ways.

 

[harveymt]

the_lhc:
If it's an old IDE box then you're limited to 4 drives, including the CD/DVD drive, so it might not be that useful and if you are going to do RAID you're probably looking at software RAID, so your performance could be heavily impacted depending on how weak your processors are.

Be interesting to hear your thoughts though.

Well the idea would be if I could do it on this older box I could upgrade to newer stuff like hardware RAID.

At least it will keep me out of trouble over the next while.

 

[professorhat]

harveymt:There
is a cheaper 5-BAy one with an eSATA connection
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EdgeStore-DAS501T-Bay-eSATA-Enclosure/dp/B001H54JX6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268391554&sr=8-5

Are
there NAS drives with eSATA connections to attach this to?

According to this specs sheet I've found, this uses Serial ATA-300 disks (or SATA-300) so any of these discs will work within it.

 

[bcolgan]

This may be of use to you
http://www.techradar.com/news/digital-home/media-servers/how-to-make-your-own-home-server-672523

And if you do decide to go the lazy route, these guys are doing this the longest and have what is reckoned to be the best software. Although rumour has it the Windows 7 version is due to come out in the next few months, so might be worth waiting for
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/ho/WF05a/15351-15351-3726099-3726100-3726100-3969714.html
There is a massive WHS community and improvements and add-ons are constantly coming through, most of which are free.

Hope that helps.
Barry.

 

[Anonymous]

With the price of a SATA 2tb drive currently in freefall (either external or internal), now is a good time to be investing in storage.

Given an 2tb external drive can be picked up for £130, this makes a lot of sense as a back up solution rather than relying on a dual disc RAID set up.

These are very quiet and easy to set up via USB/eSATA and have synchronised PC shutdown as well

http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=407154&CatId=3055

There is also a RAID version available for an extra £70, which is probably just as well spent on a external back up drive

 

[harveymt]

Here's where I've got to so far.

The computer Im using was rescued from a skip when clearing out my dad's office and has been sitting in a garage for the last two years. It has a Intel Celeron D 2.4Ghz, about 200Mb of RAM and an 80GB hard drive. There's no wireless card in it so it's sitting in living room at the minute connected to router till I get a wireless card.

Didn't start too well as I downloaded the amd64 version of FreeNas and not the i386 I needed. I burnt it to CD and set the computer to boot from CD. This started the installation and it brought up the main menu. I then installed the OS on the hard drive and reboot and that was it. I could then access the GUI from FireFox on my NetBook. You have to then enable some options but most of the settings are default ones are seem to work ok for me. Theres one or two things I haven't got working but they aren't overly important. I then mapped the hard drive to My Computer. I transferred a couple of albums over to the server for testing purposes.

When I open up iTunes the server appears in the shared library menu.

Couple of questions.

1. When I go the shared library in iTunes, it's just a big list of the couple of albums I have put on it. There's no artwork although this is to be expected as far as I know?

To get round this, I selected File - Add Folder To Library and selected the folders of the albums on the network drive. This brought them up in the main library with artwork. If you right click on a track and select Get Info it shows Where - Z:iTunesLibraryArtistAlbumTrack.m4a where Z is the network drive. Am I right in thinking that eventually I should have all my music on the server and iTunes pointed at it as above? New CDs set to be ripped to that location.

2. When I start my PS3 it can see the server. I know the PS3 can't play Apple Lossless. I out some mp3s on the server and some picture files. It can bring up the folders and will show the Apple Lossless files but won't play them as expected. It won't show up the mp3s or pictures though. Any idea what Im doing wrong?

I winged most of the above and don't have a hugely detailed knowledge of computers. Next steps are to add a bigger hard drive. Western Digital do a 2TB one for £130. FreeNas can be configured for RAID, but it looks like more trouble than it's worth for me. For backup, Seagate do a 2TB external drive, again for £130. As and when I need more storage I can buy a matching pair of internal and external drives.

I have to learn my way around FreeNas a lot more but when I do I'll try and do a guide to it for beginners like me. There's plenty of guides about but they are written in a way you need a little knowledge to work it out. Again, I chanced my arm with some stuff but it worked.

Hopefully someone could answer the above questions.

Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

When it comes to storage I always advise people to decide on a specification for their requirement and then implement something which can meet that spec just now. If budget allows, don't worry too much about future upgrades or add ons as long as you have been realistic with how long it will last you. If, for example, you buy a unit with a USB connection as your plan for expansion, you'll find by the time you need to expand that we are 2 new versions of USB further forward and while you can maybe still buy an upgrade, you will be running at 10% of the speed of the current devices. Constantly upgrading disks in a storage server is not normally a cost effective process, you end up with lots of unused disks you paid good money for relatively recently and you start trying to recycle them in other PCs, etc, so you end up with lots of drives using lots of power, all waiting to fail, all needing backed up, all needing "management time", etc. My best advice would be buy the spec you need rather than work towards it over a length of time. If you don't have the budget just now, maybe it is worth waiting to save up to invest in a full solution up front rather than piecemeal. Unless of course you enjoy tinkering, which sometimes I do to be honest! You could be spawning a monster though...once you get the bug you end up with bits all over the place and loads of upgrades all planned out!

I could've built my own Linux storage server, but frankly I couldn't be bothered! I wanted 4 drives with RAID, so I bought a unit which lets me do that. I bought a Synology DS409 and installed 4 x 1.5Tb Seagate disks. I bought it at Christmas for £325 for the unit, the disks cost £300. 2Tb disks were available but they were almost double the cost and I didn't need more than 4Tb of useable space in a RAID 5 configuration. This unit has it's own O/S, a built in media server, download server, iTunes and Squeezebox Server support, etc, etc. I installed the disks and once they RAID volume had been formatted I was good to go within about 20 mins. My laptop, AV Receiver and XBox all connect to it for various video/audio/photo/file access purposes, and it connects to the internet directly for downloading files. It sits in a small footprint in the corner, is relatively quiet and doesn't cause me any trouble at all. I have it on a wired gigabit ethernet connection to a small gigabit switch and which also connects to my router, and so the internet. I don't want it wireless. I can be downloading files from the internet, copying documents from my laptop to the storage server, I also used it for backing up my work laptop, so that could be copying too, plus I might have my xBox on streaming a movie from it. Wireless could be a bottleneck, and when it is all contained in pretty much a 9" cube, I might as well have it next to the rest of the AV equipment and take advantage of gigabit speeds.

I could upgrade if i wanted in the future by putting 2Tb disks in and then trying to recycle the 1.5tb disks, but that isn't a realistic upgrade. By the time I fill it, 2Tb drives won't be available, they'll be too small! I suppose my point is I decided on the specification I needed, without worrying about all the extras I could buy in the near future.

Have a look at Synology...the management interface is really, really good. You buy your disks separate from the unit so you can choose your own size/speed/power useage of disk. My DS409 has now been replaced by the DS410. Info available here http://www.synology.com/enu/products/DS410/index.php

 

[Vimeous]

If you have the cash I'm with Acciesboy on this one and add an external backup drive.

Even if you don't have the cash I'd still consider it and hold off untill it's feasible.

Building your own system is great fun but it can be a very real pain in the neck and from personnal experience I wish I'd saved the cash and gone for a Netgear or Synology solution. I'd also consider Thecus but I don't believe they had Squeezebox support when I was looking.

That said I use standard Windows shares to server data to the network. The data will soon be moved onto an old AMD Sempron XP3100-based PC running RAID10 (because I can tbh). I have a seeming endless supply of 250Gb drives with 4 in the box already and another 8-10 available in the near future. However it simply won't be practical to use them all, or even half of them. It would also be terribly expensive if your motherboard doesn't support many drives - an add-in controller card for 8x SATA drives can easily hit £300+.

Thing is it's inevitable upgrade fever will hit, an extra drive here, an external there. Without great self-control you'll soon have spent close to a dedicated solution cost but have a much bigger management headache.

A few notes worth remembering:
I'm a huge fan of Buffalo wireless kit but they have used a propriatary file system in the past for their NAS devices making the data on the Terastation drives unusable outside their systems. More open solutions running RAID1 will enable you to pull a drive out of a failed box and plug it straight into you main PC to recover the data.
When buying a NAS find out what the file system is and if you are happy with its limitations.

Also the only RAID level that will allow you to pull a drive and plug it in elsewhere (file system allowing) is RAID1. This is because in all other RAID configurations the data is split across one or more drives so one of a set will not be recognised elsewhere.

RAID can use different size drives. However it treats all drives as the smallest in the set. For example a RAID1 of one 80Gb and one 500Gb drive would only show 80Gb total space - the 'spare' 420Gb is unusable.
If you then replaced the 80Gb with another 500Gb drive the 420Gb could then be used BUT would be a new 'chunk' of data storage. You'd need software tools to make it one single 500Gb chunk.

RAID is a good idea. The most common fault of NAS systems will be the mechanical drives. While you may have a backup there are fewer more irritating things (and time consuming) than having to restore gigabytes (let alone terrabytes) of information.
RAID is designed to allow your system to keep functioning when a drive fails and when you replace that drive (most) automatically rebuild the RAID array. It is time consuming but if you have hot-swap drives you should never loose access to your data.