BLURAY MOTION JUDDER

[Deleted member 2457]

jase fox:Hi Gel, How does it all sound you say? Simply AWESOME !! And ive always preffered B&W speakers anyway & yes the speakers i have are now discontinued, WHSAV always highly rated them as they are great speakers. My centre speaker is the size of 2 breeze blocks its truly a fantastic piece of kit mind you at £450.00 it oughta be !! And the B&Ws work beautifully with pioneer amps, incredible sound, sometimes i cant believe the sound i get from my system especially with 2 subs connected, no matter who demos my set up there awestruck, i also use specialist powerkords etc which HAVE made a huge difference to the performance.

Thanks for your response Jase Fox,

I really like B&W speaker's and pioneer's as well, you say they are now discontinued did B&W replace them with other speakers?

Did you demo before you buy?

Thanks alot

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Also Jase Fox are your speaker's wall mounted?

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Also Jase Fox I am guessing your centre speaker would not fit onto a normal size stand?

Thanks

 

[jase fox]

Gel,

I dont think B&W actually replaced them but just brought out new ranges etc & yes i demod before i bought (long time ago now though)

And no there not wall mounted i have my main speakers perched on ATACAMA R 724 speaker stands they are the elite stands of the Atacama range what hifi gave them a 5 star award winner back in there day, they produce back breaking bass weight !

To give you an idea of the size of my centre speaker its 18 inches in lengh / 10.5 inch in depth & 10.5 inch again in height (its a beast) personally i think its the best centre speaker ever produced IMO of course

 

[Deleted member 2457]

It's very cool thanks for the information.

Cheers

 

[jase fox]

gel:
It's very cool thanks for the information.

Cheers
Your very welcome..

 

[aliEnRIK]

jase fox:Gel,

I dont think B&W actually replaced them but just brought out new ranges etc & yes i demod before i bought (long time ago now though)

And no there not wall mounted i have my main speakers perched on ATACAMA R 724 speaker stands they are the elite stands of the Atacama range what hifi gave them a 5 star award winner back in there day, they produce back breaking bass weight !

To give you an idea of the size of my centre speaker its 18 inches in lengh / 10.5 inch in depth & 10.5 inch again in height (its a beast) personally i think its the best centre speaker ever produced IMO of course

Much as it will sound very good, I cant agree with the 'best ever made' comment mate

My dad has a wilson benesch center (cost around 3k I think), which id put up against most

 

[aliEnRIK]

Ok, got around to the Casino Royale scene ~ my PS3 tells me its actually 1H 11mins and 20 seconds in. The camera pans over the table and back again with a definite 'judder' effect. Particularly high contrast items stand out (symbol on table, bonds collar etc)

I did a 'frame advance' and sure enough, its definitely whats encoded on the disc and NOT my tv

 

[jase fox]

aliEnRIK:
jase fox:Gel,

I dont think B&W actually replaced them but just brought out new ranges etc & yes i demod before i bought (long time ago now though)

And no there not wall mounted i have my main speakers perched on ATACAMA R 724 speaker stands they are the elite stands of the Atacama range what hifi gave them a 5 star award winner back in there day, they produce back breaking bass weight !

To give you an idea of the size of my centre speaker its 18 inches in lengh / 10.5 inch in depth & 10.5 inch again in height (its a beast) personally i think its the best centre speaker ever produced IMO of course

Much as it will sound very good, I cant agree with the 'best ever made' comment mate

My dad has a wilson benesch center (cost around 3k I think), which id put up against most

Fair comment Rik, maybe the "best ever made" comment was abit OTT considering the amount you can spend on them, but? Hey, im in my own little world here mate ha , Mind you at the time my centre speaker was released it was quoted the best around up to the £500 mark & that the reviewers had also put it against one that cost a grand & they said it was even better then that.

Then again your dad,s got one costing 3k ish so ill shut up. Rant over ha

 

[jase fox]

aliEnRIK:
Ok, got around to the Casino Royale scene ~ my PS3 tells me its actually 1H 11mins and 20 seconds in. The camera pans over the table and back again with a definite 'judder' effect. Particularly high contrast items stand out (symbol on table, bonds collar etc)

I did a 'frame advance' and sure enough, its definitely whats encoded on the disc and NOT my tv

Im going to try the said scene later Rik, ill report back with my findings.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Although the technical whys and wherefores are interesting, I'm stunned how many of you are actively hunting out judder you presumably didn't notice when watching a film previously.

Less time over-analysing and more time enjoying the movies, perhaps?

Or IMO, there's a danger you'll reduce a great experience(please let's not forget how blisteringly good BD can look and sound) into a flaw-picking exercise. That way misery lies....

 

[jase fox]

Clare Newsome:
Although the technical whys and wherefores are interesting, I'm stunned how many of you are actively hunting out judder you presumably didn't notice when watching a film previously.

Less time over-analysing and more time enjoying the movies, perhaps?

Or IMO, there's a danger you'll reduce a great experience(please let's not forget how blisteringly good BD can look and sound) into a flaw-picking exercise. That way misery lies....

I do agree with you Clare as i did previously say in this post that i hadnt noticed any judder, but of course now its brought to my attention im just curious now. Im sure my other half is going to be shaking her head from side to side sighing as shes doing so wandering if ive gone mad when i look for it ha

 

[aliEnRIK]

Clare Newsome:
Although the technical whys and wherefores are interesting, I'm stunned how many of you are actively hunting out judder you presumably didn't notice when watching a film previously.

Less time over-analysing and more time enjoying the movies, perhaps?

Or IMO, there's a danger you'll reduce a great experience(please let's not forget how blisteringly good BD can look and sound) into a flaw-picking exercise. That way misery lies....

To be honest Clare thats not it at all for me. Ive bought a Sony recently which are supposed to be well known for their silky smooth movement. Recently so many people have been posting about 'judder' in some form or other. I had the exact same problem on my old (7th generation) pioneer and assumed it was the tv at fault. But no, it seems these awesome blurays arnt as good as they should be (Well the actual problem is because films recorded at 24fps but you know what im saying)

As my tv has 1:1 ratio with no overmapping the judder is even more pronounced (Its showing everything 'as is' which is obviously what its supposed to)

Ive posted in answer to those that HAVE noticed. And to point out to everyone whos at all interested that blurays are not perfect

On a sidenote ive just got back from my dads. Viewing sky on his 500A I also saw judder so even the best tv in the world is susceptible to the problem (Albeit 'pull down' judder in this case)

 

[The_Lhc]

Clare Newsome:Although the technical whys and wherefores are interesting, I'm stunned how many of you are actively hunting out judder you presumably didn't notice when watching a film previously.

Not me, 2001 was the first blu-ray I watched, I wasn't looking for judder, it was just so noticable I couldn't avoid seeing it.

Or IMO, there's a danger you'll reduce a great experience(please let's not forget how blisteringly good BD can look and sound) into a flaw-picking exercise. That way misery lies....

Too late, now I've seen it, I'm not going to be able to avoid seeing it.

 

[Peter Larsen]

I just rented Casino Royal to test the scene you talk about, and I'm sorry to say that it does not juddder AT ALL on my newly purchased Cambridge 650BD output to 1080p 24fps and into my my (HD Ready) Panasonic PTA-E900, which supports 1080p24 and downscales it to a beautifully looking 720 resolution - still 24fps mind you. The image is amazing, and looks alot better than many of my friends full HD projectors. The Panny is a gem.

However, I have seen extreme juddering on the same machine when it was accidentally set to output 25fps 1080i. Looked awful.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:

Clare Newsome:Although the technical whys and wherefores are interesting, I'm stunned how many of you are actively hunting out judder you presumably didn't notice when watching a film previously.

Not me, 2001 was the first blu-ray I watched, I wasn't looking for judder, it was just so noticable I couldn't avoid seeing it.

Or IMO, there's a danger you'll reduce a great experience(please let's not forget how blisteringly good BD can look and sound) into a flaw-picking exercise. That way misery lies....

Too late, now I've seen it, I'm not going to be able to avoid seeing it.

I too noticed the very obvious judder in 2001, which appears straight after the Dawn of Man in the first space scene.

I usually have the panasonicïs IFC switched off (makes motion smoother) but on this ocasion it worked a treat removing the judder.

Practically, this post is of no use since I have never used the tv you own, but I can only imagine, given its quality, that it would have some similar, no doubt better, function.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Peter Larsen:
I just rented Casino Royal to test the scene you talk about, and I'm sorry to say that it does not juddder AT ALL on my newly purchased Cambridge 650BD output to 1080p 24fps and into my my (HD Ready) Panasonic PTA-E900, which supports 1080p24 and downscales it to a beautifully looking 720 resolution - still 24fps mind you. The image is amazing, and looks alot better than many of my friends full HD projectors. The Panny is a gem.

However, I have seen extreme juddering on the same machine when it was accidentally set to output 25fps 1080i. Looked awful.

No need to say sorry, but im intrigued as to what it does to 'mask' the problem

 

[Peter Larsen]

aliEnRIK:Peter Larsen:
I just rented Casino Royal to test the scene you talk about, and I'm sorry to say that it does not juddder AT ALL on my newly purchased Cambridge 650BD output to 1080p 24fps and into my my (HD Ready) Panasonic PTA-E900, which supports 1080p24 and downscales it to a beautifully looking 720 resolution - still 24fps mind you. The image is amazing, and looks alot better than many of my friends full HD projectors. The Panny is a gem.

However, I have seen extreme juddering on the same machine when it was accidentally set to output 25fps 1080i. Looked awful.

No need to say sorry, but im intrigued as to what it does to 'mask' the problem

I haven't got a clue, but the machine defaulted to 1080i 25fps when handshaking over HDMI, and I didn't notice it until the judder appeared on several of my BD's. I was just about to flame the machine when I noticed the projectors OSD saying the signal was 1080i. I then forced the player to output 1080p 24 and the judder dissapeard. I was relieved. I don't know whether its the player or the projector that remove judder, but either way my combo seems to work wonders.

 

[The_Lhc]

hmtb:the_lhc:

Clare Newsome:Although the technical whys and wherefores are interesting, I'm stunned how many of you are actively hunting out judder you presumably didn't notice when watching a film previously.

Not me, 2001 was the first blu-ray I watched, I wasn't looking for judder, it was just so noticable I couldn't avoid seeing it.

Or IMO, there's a danger you'll reduce a great experience(please let's not forget how blisteringly good BD can look and sound) into a flaw-picking exercise. That way misery lies....

Too late, now I've seen it, I'm not going to be able to avoid seeing it.

I too noticed the very obvious judder in 2001, which appears straight after the Dawn of Man in the first space scene.

That's interesting, I didn't notice it there, it was at the start of Chapter 14 (Jupiter Mission 18 months later) that I really saw it.

I usually have the panasonicïs IFC switched off (makes motion smoother) but on this ocasion it worked a treat removing the judder.

Practically, this post is of no use since I have never used the tv you own, but I can only imagine, given its quality, that it would have some similar, no doubt better, function.

Yeah I had a fiddle with the Pioneer's "Film Mode", the advance setting is supposed to detect the input signal and adjust the refresh rate accordingly, it definitely improved matters, had a play with the drive modes as well but I didn't notice much difference between them.

 

[Anonymous]

A significant advantage of filming at higher rates than 24fps would be better image depth due to ocular cues in pans and shots tracking motion. The current method is to use short depths of field to blurr background details, if they were kept sharply infocus the image would jerk and judder, while if the moving object of intrest was alowed to blur instead some viewers experience nausea. The problem is that even filming and displaying at 100fps is too slow for live sports to keep everyting in sharp focus without inducing the perception of judder. Unlike shooting films the director can not always dictate the speed of paning shots in live sports.

Oh and I have come across another sorce of judder poor implementation of 24fps playback on some makes of blu-ray players or displays. Some makes assume blu-rays are all 24fps when in reality virtually all are enoded at 23.97fps to keep it in sync with NTSC's 59.97 so if played back / displayed at exactly 24fps there is a frame jump every 40 seconds to catch up.