Bluray Audio

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manicm

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I don't really see a problem here. I would assume one would dedicate the time to listening to a high-res disc just as one would vinyl. There is some preparation before the rewards to be had.

And I repeat, true internally SACD players are rare/very expensive. And today there is probably NO Blu-ray player which will decode DSD internally without converting first to PCM.
 

gel

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Jan 2, 2022
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I don't really see a problem here. I would assume one would dedicate the time to listening to a high-res disc just as one would vinyl. There is some preparation before the rewards to be had.

And I repeat, true internally SACD players are rare/very expensive. And today there is probably NO Blu-ray player which will decode DSD internally without converting first to PCM.
What is DSD, Manicm? I think some of us might have cross lines here.
 

michael hoy

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gel

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DSD - Direct Stream Digital is a trademark used by Sony and Philips for their system for digitally encoding audio signals for the Super Audio CD. DSD uses pulse-density modulation encoding - a technology to store audio signals on digital storage media which are used for the SACD
Does your Oppo 203 do that?
 

gel

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Oppo 203 definitely does:

 

Tinman1952

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It does Gel, automatically converts to PCM if the receiving device cannot play DSD.
It is not quite correct to say 'converts to pcm' implying the audio data is somehow different. It splits the DSD stream into 'packets' to make it seem to the player to be pcm but these still contain the original DSD stream data. It is not 'converted' as such...
 

michael hoy

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It is not quite correct to say 'converts to pcm' implying the audio data is somehow different. It splits the DSD stream into 'packets' to make it seem to the player to be pcm but these still contain the original DSD stream data. It is not 'converted' as such...
Not disputing what you say, but OPPO actually state the below. :)


"The OPPO player will automatically convert DSD into PCM if it determines that a connected device does not support DSD. Usually your A/V receiver or audio processor will have an indication on its front panel showing whether the device is getting DSD signal."
 
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Tinman1952

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Not disputing what you say, but OPPO actually state the below. :)


"The OPPO player will automatically convert DSD into PCM if it determines that a connected device does not support DSD. Usually your A/V receiver or audio processor will have an indication on its front panel showing whether the device is getting DSD signal."
Fair enough. I just wanted to clarify that it just puts the DSD data into a PCM 'wrapper' to 'fool' the connected device but doesn't change the audio..it is still DSD. Many originally got all hung up about DOP thinking the audio quality had been changed. 🙂
 
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manicm

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Fair enough. I just wanted to clarify that it just puts the DSD data into a PCM 'wrapper' to 'fool' the connected device but doesn't change the audio..it is still DSD. Many originally got all hung up about DOP thinking the audio quality had been changed. 🙂
Tinman, I may disagree with you for the first time on this. All the manufacturers of these devices don't explicitly state that internally no PCM conversion is taking place before the analogue output?

So while these players may decode DSD, if you're just connecting via RCA to a stereo amp, they may still be converting to PCM.

I want an unequivocal statement that internally no PCM conversion is taking place. If not it's just another mass market device as far as SACD goes.
 

Tinman1952

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Tinman, I may disagree with you for the first time on this. All the manufacturers of these devices don't explicitly state that internally no PCM conversion is taking place before the analogue output?

So while these players may decode DSD, if you're just connecting via RCA to a stereo amp, they may still be converting to PCM.

I want an unequivocal statement that internally no PCM conversion is taking place. If not it's just another mass market device as far as SACD goes.
I think you may misunderstand what DSD over PCM (DOP) actually is.

Quick explanation:

(DSD Over PCM) DoP is a method for transporting DSD audio over USB ports that do not have a DSD driver. Each consecutive set of 16 DSD bits is stored as PCM bits in the lower 16 bits of a 176.4/24 sampling rate. An 8-bit DoP header is added to each sample. In order to reassemble the PCM bits into a continuous DSD stream, the DAC at the playback end must be DoP compliant.

More detail:

 
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manicm

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I think you may misunderstand what DSD over PCM (DOP) actually is.

Quick explanation:

(DSD Over PCM) DoP is a method for transporting DSD audio over USB ports that do not have a DSD driver. Each consecutive set of 16 DSD bits is stored as PCM bits in the lower 16 bits of a 176.4/24 sampling rate. An 8-bit DoP header is added to each sample. In order to reassemble the PCM bits into a continuous DSD stream, the DAC at the playback end must be DoP compliant.

More detail:

I'm not talking about over USB, I'm talking solely about SACD disc playback via RCA analogue output to a stereo amp. A fully fledged SACD/DSD player will NOT convert to PCM before the analogue output.
 

Tinman1952

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May 19, 2021
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Tinman, I may disagree with you for the first time on this. All the manufacturers of these devices don't explicitly state that internally no PCM conversion is taking place before the analogue output?

So while these players may decode DSD, if you're just connecting via RCA to a stereo amp, they may still be converting to PCM.

I want an unequivocal statement that internally no PCM conversion is taking place. If not it's just another mass market device as far as SACD goes.
I'm not talking about over USB, I'm talking solely about SACD disc playback via RCA analogue output to a stereo amp. A fully fledged SACD/DSD player will NOT convert to PCM before the analogue output.
The mention of USB was to illustrate why DOP came about.
I never said an SACD player would convert DSD to PCM for playback.

However there are bluray players that will play SACD and not convert to PCM for playback...they do not need to do this as if they play back SACDs they will have a DSD dac. My Sony UBP-X800 is one that plays DSD without any conversion. 🙂
 

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