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bigger differences with certain brands of loudspeaker ?

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are there any brands of loudspeaker in particular that are renowned for showing the differences in electronics more so than others ?

for example i have read that some loudspeakers "need careful partnering" whilst others are "not really fussy" !

therefore which brand(s) of loudspeaker would be able to show clear differences in the sound character of a cd player / integrated amplifier combination from the likes of naim, rega, marantz etc ?
 
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MUSICRAFT

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In all fairness all loudspeakers I have heard are to a lesser or greater extent capable of revealing differences of partnering components.

But to cut to the chase then loudspeakers along the path of monitors which are uncoloured and natural such as those from ATC, M&K (Miller & Kreisel) Sound, Magico, Wilson Audio amongst others are the ones to consider.
 
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thanks both for the replies.

i'm guessing then that the loudspeakers described as needing "careful partnering" are more revealing of the source / amplifier (which is actually what you want) but the speakers that are described as "not really fussy" are, indeed, less revealing and possibly not as good !
 
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Simon 13th note

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In all fairness all loudspeakers I have heard are to a lesser or greater extent capable of revealing differences of partnering components.

But to cut to the chase then loudspeakers along the path of monitors which are uncoloured and natural such as those from ATC, M&K (Miller & Kreisel) Sound, Magico, Wilson Audio amongst others are the ones to consider.
the problem with speakers like ATC is they are natural (And fantastic at their best) but you need great rooms to get best out of them, necessitating room treatments. Also British living rooms are getting smaller not bigger. I’ve found more difference in speakers from changing DACs and amps, that reveal the detail from their own detailed tuning.. Play orbitals track called attached on pmc twenty5 series, or neat iota alpha and you hear All the incisive treble. On atc it‘s lost a bit and at sea. Atc are a speaker for people who like acoustic music. That’s why you’ll hear them being played with nick drake etc, like they were at Bristol. But for a bit of trance at home , between the furniture, they are not the natural choice.
I definitely don’t think Wilson Audio are vfm. £15k for those tune tots. Having a laugh.
 

Gray

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thanks both for the replies.

i'm guessing then that the loudspeakers described as needing "careful partnering" are more revealing of the source / amplifier (which is actually what you want) but the speakers that are described as "not really fussy" are, indeed, less revealing and possibly not as good !
I wouldn't argue with any of that.
Some would take issue with a less revealing speaker being 'not as good'.
They'd say that when playing horrendous recordings, the less accurate speaker is better.
Others just don't like accuracy.
 
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plastic penguin

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Speakers are determined by how they synergise with the rest of the kit. Speakers are only as good or bad as the rest of a set-up. I've always mixed light with dark, depending on room acoustics and taste.

Leema = Neutral (light)
Exposure = Smooth midrange (dark)
PMCs = Smooth midrange, crisp and natural top end (light)
Pro-ject = Natural to smooth (dark)
 

12th Monkey

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I always got the impression that 'need careful matching' usually meant that speakers were a little bright, and that coupling with bright electronics would exacerbate this problem.

But generally the better the speaker, the more revealing it is of both recordings and partnering equipment (in my limited experience). I would also imagine that a standmounter might tell you less about bass extension that a similarly-talented floorstander, just because of physical limits.
 
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millennia_one

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are there any brands of loudspeaker in particular that are renowned for showing the differences in electronics more so than others ?

for example i have read that some loudspeakers "need careful partnering" whilst others are "not really fussy" !

therefore which brand(s) of loudspeaker would be able to show clear differences in the sound character of a cd player / integrated amplifier combination from the likes of naim, rega, marantz etc ?

This is a funny question because people will contradict themselves, They will say a speaker should be able to show the character of the amplifier/source, but then in the same breath, those same folks will say that all amps, CD players ect sound the same or they shouldn't be imparting any character on the music what so ever. So you can't really win.

HiFi is like photography in a lot of ways , cameras are all configured and calibrated to a standard to reproduce like for like imagery and perfectly (lenses arent though i might)! Possibly even better than a HiFi could be. What I have learnt from my photography is if I show someone what it was really like that day a "neutral image" they don't like it. They remember the day differently, blue skies should be more teal (skies are not teal) and greens richer and so on. So we start to deviate from the "accurate" and into artistic and that whats happens with hifi, certain things are embellished and if we pair to other items with the same embellishment you get to much of a good thing, in photography, it would be referred to as "over-saturation" this even happens with so-called "neutral speakers". You're a fool if you think a speaker is perfectly flat and are perfect, all speakers have flaws/characters and by that very thought means they are far from neutral. Hence music engineers will like one brand over the other, you'll hear them say i like the bass tone over this brand and like the extended highs of this brand and so on. They have a preference which means there's a character

We have a saying in photography and that "embrace the grey" in other words embrace the imperfections.

Its a guessing game really which is why auditions are important
 

Simon 13th note

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Speakers are determined by how they synergise with the rest of the kit. Speakers are only as good or bad as the rest of a set-up. I've always mixed light with dark, depending on room acoustics and taste.

Leema = Neutral (light)
Exposure = Smooth midrange (dark)
PMCs = Smooth midrange, crisp and natural top end (light)
Pro-ject = Natural to smooth (dark)
Some truth I agree but impossible to say as they do most of the sound. Whilst great speakers, new kef ls50 meta, or neat iota alpha are still constrained by design eg on bass. No matter of amps will sort it.

People have to get away from this approach of characterising brands like wine as it just doesnt happen in hifi. The pmc twenty 26 is quite a different speaker to the twenty 5 23 or twenty5 23i, in its sonic character to depart from the rationalisation of speaker ‘flavours’. Quite easily fitting into another brand. Also pmc have a studio and commercial arm and they sometimes won’t be tuning home speakers anywhere near like studio monitors Simply as the monitors are designed for great studio set ups. Hegel h120 v H390 i have Atm are similar though.
 

12th Monkey

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50-80% of the sound of speakers will be your room without Room treatment
I'm deeply suspicious of such claims, personally. I know there are 'authorities' who proclaim it, but my hifi has never sounded significantly different even when big changes are made, such as having all the windows and both sets of French doors open. If the room were responsible for most of the sound, I'd expect big changes to it under those circumstances.

Not saying I'm right, but am saying the room being the predominant factor seems illogical to me.
 
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Simon 13th note

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I'm deeply suspicious of such claims, personally. I know there are 'authorities' who proclaim it, but my hifi has never sounded significantly different even when big changes are made, such as having all the windows and both sets of French doors open. If the room were responsible for most of the sound, I'd expect big changes to it under those circumstances.

Not saying I'm right, but am saying the room being the predominant factor seems illogical to me.
absolutely as the notion the room is all important is to take a room being bad and apply it to everyone else who have good but acceptable room set ups. Mythical. But that’s what tends to happen in hifi - applying universal truths to everyone. When I went to Bristol show I heard the same ATC’s playing I had at home. Different rooms but immediately recognisable.
The best way to look at room set up is to tweak issues you don’t like but if a problem for you. Like using a cable but slightly more important. If you don’t think you’ve an issue, and like what you hear, what is the problem? Longwise and width ways speaker positioning in a room can be a good test of sussing out,’yup, I know those speakers!’ admittedly tweaking sonics. Base hifi on your experiences not the bs some people come up with a lot.
 

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absolutely as the notion the room is all important is to take a room being bad and apply it to everyone else who have good but acceptable room set ups. Mythical. But that’s what tends to happen in hifi - applying universal truths to everyone. When I went to Bristol show I heard the same ATC’s playing I had at home. Different rooms but immediately recognisable.
The best way to look at room set up is to tweak issues you don’t like but if a problem for you. Like using a cable but slightly more important. If you don’t think you’ve an issue, and like what you hear, what is the problem? Longwise and width ways speaker positioning in a room can be a good test of sussing out,’yup, I know those speakers!’ admittedly tweaking sonics. Base hifi on your experiences not the bs some people come up with a lot.
does the amount of volume a system / loudspeaker is played at make room interaction more significant ?
 
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plastic penguin

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Some truth I agree but impossible to say as they do most of the sound. Whilst great speakers, new kef ls50 meta, or neat iota alpha are still constrained by design eg on bass. No matter of amps will sort it.

People have to get away from this approach of characterising brands like wine as it just doesnt happen in hifi. The pmc twenty 26 is quite a different speaker to the twenty 5 23 or twenty5 23i, in its sonic character to depart from the rationalisation of speaker ‘flavours’. Quite easily fitting into another brand. Also pmc have a studio and commercial arm and they sometimes won’t be tuning home speakers anywhere near like studio monitors Simply as the monitors are designed for great studio set ups. Hegel h120 v H390 i have Atm are similar though.
I agree that you can't categorize speakers like wine. IME a speaker is only as good or rubbish by the rest of your kit... and room acoustics. It's quite a trick to get that balance right.

But hi-fi isn't an exact science, hence when I make recommendations for components I always (nearly) suggest a home or at least a shop demo before parting with any substantial amounts of money.
 

MUSICRAFT

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Atc are a speaker for people who like acoustic music. But for a bit of trance at home , between the furniture, they are not the natural choice..
I'm sure the ATC users such as Metallica, Ken “Duro” Ifill (six time Grammy award winning mix engineer - his client list includes Jay-Z, NAS, ‎Pharrell, Erykah Badu, Will Smith, Beastie Boys, Usher, and on and on) are perfectly content with their ATC monitors.

ATC Transducer. A precision monitoring instrument :)
 
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hilroy48

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My room is 13'x19'x8'. I added some room treatment to reduce the echo and calm the room down. It changed the entire sound stage and presence if you will. I treated the 1st reflection points, and then the rest of the room as i saw fit. Money well spent.
 

Simon 13th note

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I'm sure the ATC users such as Metallica, Ken “Duro” Ifill (six time Grammy award winning mix engineer - his client list includes Jay-Z, NAS, ‎Pharrell, Erykah Badu, Will Smith, Beastie Boys, Usher, and on and on) are perfectly content with their ATC monitors.

ATC Transducer. A precision monitoring instrument :)
hardly techno , trance etc with fast very dynamic content. Or as the guy from harbeth says - pop music. Lol. Maybe a bit of Carl cox from 90s. Noel Gallagher is on that atc list, but doesn’t surprise me with recording artists.
 

Romulus

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I would of thought that with some ATC speakers being sealed box variety would be easier to match rooms then ported speakers. Eg if someone has suspended floor boards, some floorstanding ported speakers may make room acoustics a problem while a sealed design may override the problem. I am not sure if I am right and would welcome information from those who have experience of such situations.
 
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Gray

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I'm sure the ATC users such as Metallica, Ken “Duro” Ifill (six time Grammy award winning mix engineer - his client list includes Jay-Z, NAS, ‎Pharrell, Erykah Badu, Will Smith, Beastie Boys, Usher, and on and on) are perfectly content with their ATC monitors.

ATC Transducer. A precision monitoring instrument :)
I'm keen to hear some ATC speakers (despite the above being content with them :rolleyes: which really is the complete opposite of a recommendation to me).
 

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