Bi amp or pre/power?

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l know the debate around bi amping is split, to say the least, but l would value opinion on:-

either bi amping from an Arcam Alpha 8 amp, with an additional 8 power, one driving the top end the other bass or.....

using the integrated as a pre & the 8 (or 9) purely as the power.

'Speakers are Monitor Audio RS1's, with DNM cable.
 

d_a_n1979

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I'd deffo agree with bi-amping as well

I've just got my Arcam Alpha 9P power amp back and hooked it up this morning. the difference its made is very noticable and for the better

The bass is tighter and deeper, the midrange is smoother and better timed and the treble is sweeter now its getting more direct power.

I think for the prices, either get an Arcam Alpha 8/9P power amp OR if your budget can stretch, sell the 8 integrated and get the Arcam Alpha 9 integrated and power amp.
 

Charlie Jefferson

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[quote user="d_a_n1979"]I had forgotten the difference bi-amping makes![/quote]

At the risk of sounding even stupider than when I couldn't connect my DAC and CD player to my amp, could someone spell out in simple, oh so simple terms the difference between Pre/Power and bi-amping. Well, actually I think I know the difference in pure technical terms but. . . .and this is where I'm hanging my head in Luddite shame. . .I don't precisely know which configuration I am running. Between my P90 and my A85 I have an RCA connection and then four of my bi-wired speaker cables run from speaker to P90 and four run from speaker to A85. Four High Frequency into P90 & Four Low Frequency into A85, I think.
 
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Anonymous

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Sounds like bi-amping to me Charlie! i think...never understood if you could use both speaker output sets for bi-wiring/amping....
 

drummerman

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Results are unpredictable and rarely an improvement for the cost involved. A different (cheap) interconnect can equal the difference (not improvement) you hear. Another take on the subject and open to debate and personal interpretation. Well designed Pre (dedicated) Power anytime but at that sort of money impossible.

My advise; Save the money for the 8(9) power, sell the 8 integrated and buy a decent modern amplifier such as a Creek Evo or Marantz etc.

Alternatively save up a little and buy a cyrus 8 discounted.
 

JoelSim

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[quote user="drummerman"]
Results are unpredictable and rarely an improvement for the cost involved. A different (cheap) interconnect can equal the difference (not improvement) you hear. Another take on the subject and open to debate and personal interpretation. Well designed Pre (dedicated) Power anytime but at that sort of money impossible.

My advise; Save the money for the 8(9) power, sell the 8 integrated and buy a decent modern amplifier such as a Creek Evo or Marantz etc.

Alternatively save up a little and buy a cyrus 8 discounted.
[/quote]

There's always one.

Biamp is worth it. Ignore Drummerman.
 

nads

Well-known member
[quote user="JoelSim"][quote user="drummerman"]
Results are unpredictable and rarely an improvement for the cost involved. A different (cheap) interconnect can equal the difference (not improvement) you hear. Another take on the subject and open to debate and personal interpretation. Well designed Pre (dedicated) Power anytime but at that sort of money impossible.

My advise; Save the money for the 8(9) power, sell the 8 integrated and buy a decent modern amplifier such as a Creek Evo or Marantz etc.

Alternatively save up a little and buy a cyrus 8 discounted.
[/quote]

There's always one.

Biamp is worth it. Ignore Drummerman.[/quote]
Agreed on both counts.
 

drummerman

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emotion-2.gif
Ignore my lack of knowledge of arcam second hand value stuff but lets assume its £200 for a 9 power and £100 for the 8. Add cables to what you call bi-amp (I've stated many times why it is not true bi-amping as in feeding the drivers without the compromises of a passive crossover so I wont go there again).
So, 300 quids worth of ageing amplifiers which even in their prime were not exactly world beaters better than an evo or even modern NAD? You're a funny man.

Lets up the ante a little for arguments sake ... Take a cyrus 8 integrated and power, all £1400 or thereabouts then listen to a primare, copland or densen for example and still tell me that bi-amping is the way forward.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="nads"][quote user="JoelSim"]quote]

There's always one.

Biamp is worth it. Ignore Drummerman.[/quote]
Agreed on both counts.[/quote]

Bi-amping makes sense on paper, let-alone when it is done for real. Seperating the high and the low frequency prevents cross-over distortion and improves the sound-stage because the signal is not corrupted with data which is later filtered out. There are copious reasons behind it that I do not understand; neither do I attempt to - but reality is that biamping does make a big difference. Whether you feel the price is justified is a different matter - but If you do not, then there is little point in having a system beyond a few thousand pounds.
 
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Anonymous

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A modern NAD? What are you infering? And unless you have ever heard an Arcam Alpha, there is little point in slating them. The Arcam Alpha 7/8/9s were absolutly sublime and IMO beat the equivelent models out today (the A80/85 were slightly better however). I hope you don't call yourself an 'audiophile'!
 

drummerman

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[quote user="Hughes123"]
Bi-amping makes sense on paper, let-alone when it is done for real. Seperating the high and the low frequency prevents cross-over distortion and improves the sound-stage because the signal is not corrupted with data which is later filtered out. There are copious reasons behind it that I do not understand; neither do I attempt to - but reality is that biamping does make a big difference. Whether you feel the price is justified is a different matter - but If you do not, then there is little point in having a system beyond a few thousand pounds.

[/quote]

God help us all. I dont know where to start correcting your posting, there are so many misinterpretations of the subject, so I wont bother. A system beyond a 'few thousand pounds' not poss without bi-amping?!

Christ, is this forum occupied entirely by idiots?

So long chaps. Had enough
emotion-11.gif
 
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Anonymous

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Where on this planet did you get your knowledge from? And I've had enough of this forum being occupied by stuck-up (enter rude word) idiots like you! I didn't state that you couldn't have a system over a few thousand pounds that wasn't biamped...I was mearly stating that if you don't understand the concept then you can't be after true quality.
 

drummerman

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I love my music my friend and spend a whole lot more on that than the hardware I can freely test any time time allows so to speak (that includes bi-amping certain systems). Still, I dont understand what you mean with

[quote user="Hughes123"]I was mearly stating that if you don't understand the concept then you can't be after true quality.[/quote]

What has the concept of 'bi-amping' to do with 'true' quality?

Dont bother to explain. I am not really interested.
 

drummerman

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[quote user="Hughes123"]A modern NAD? What are you infering? And unless you have ever heard an Arcam Alpha, there is little point in slating them. The Arcam Alpha 7/8/9s were absolutly sublime and IMO beat the equivelent models out today (the A80/85 were slightly better however). I hope you don't call yourself an 'audiophile'![/quote]

Ha ha. You really are a comedian
emotion-2.gif
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="drummerman"]
So long chaps. Had enough
emotion-11.gif

[/quote]

Praise the lord.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="drummerman"]

I love my music my friend and spend a whole lot more on that than the hardware I can freely test any time time allows so to speak (that includes bi-amping certain systems). Still, I dont understand what you mean with

[quote user="Hughes123"]I was mearly stating that if you don't understand the concept then you can't be after true quality.[/quote]

What has the concept of 'bi-amping' to do with 'true' quality?

Dont bother to explain. I am not really interested.
[/quote]

Don't ask then!
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
...And breathe...

[/quote] lol! Sorry Andrew!
 
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Anonymous

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Definately go the Bi-amping route. But make sure you use the integrated to drive the treble and the power amp for the bass. Not only will bass need more power at the higher volumes, but the treble will not appreciate having to go through another set of interconnects wheras the bass will not mind so much.
 

d_a_n1979

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Bi-amping does make a big difference and even more so if you can get the 'next up' power amp in the range.

As i said before i have just added the Arcam Alpha 9P power amp back in to my set-up and the difference it has made is superb.

You cant go wrong with adding a good power amp to an already good integrated amp, especially to feed the different channels. As said above, use the integrated for the HF's and the power amp for the LF's.

With regards to going for a more expensive integrated, again it has its pro's and cons'

The integrated amps mentioned before' before someone threw their dummy 'outta the pram' are very good BUT they still reap benefits from having the power amp added, or if you can afford, monoblocks.

My girlfriend has the Cyrus 8v2 amp and 8 CDP along with B&W CM7 speakers. The system sounds superb and suits her taste in music down to a tee, thats why it took us 3 weeks to decide on the system after listening to Rotel, Roksan, Rega and Arcam.

She has listened to my system many times and yesterday notice an immediate improvement once the power amp was added and right at this very minute she is at Sevenoaks in Preston demo'ing the Cyrus 8v2 with the 8 power amp and the X-Power, i think.

We demo'd this a while back and she felt that it would be over kill, but seeing as she hardly watches TV anymore and just listens to the system, she can justify upgrading in the next 'more common sense' upgrade.
 
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Anonymous

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Right, no laughs please...

Is it possible/advisable to bi-amp with two equally rated integrated amps (although not identical).

As you will already have guessed, I'm fairly new to this!

emotion-7.gif
 
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Anonymous

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Well, thanks all for the very informative/entertaining advice!

Anybody used the DNM biwire cable? It's fairly pricey at £15+ a metre.

lf l do go down the biamp route, l will obviously need either another run of DNM Reson (already have one) or the dedicated biwire/amp cable.
 

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