Better speakers = less enjoyable listen?

[kingnothing83]

I've just upgraded my B&W 685's to CM5's. Loving the clarity and soundstage, a massive improvement! However I've already thought my speakers were damaged about 5 times whilst listening to music...

On several tracks I've heard a crackle or clipping, sometimes through the left, sometimes through the right. I attempted to isolate the problem but could feintly here it with my old speakers. The final test was using my iPhone and P3 headphones, where the same crackle was there, just incredibly feint, almost inaudible to me.

So it seems proven that this crackle has always been there on some audio tracks, just the new speakers make it extremely obvious. I guess it's something i'll have to get over to stop having the fear everytime I hear a crackle. Unless there's any suggested ways I can dial the problem out? Currently listen to audio with my av amp using audyssey flat settings, to my ears this sounds better than the direct or pure direct setting on the Marantz SR5007.

Bottom line is, I love the new speakers and it brings life to previously dull material, football for example sounds much more 3D! But occasionally in a movie or a music track I find the crackle annoying

 

[CnoEvil]

This is a generalization that doesn't really apply in every situation.

There are amps/speakers which have a very forward, revealing and analytical nature; and there are amps/speakers that have a smoother presentation, which though detailed, don't accentuate the negative.

Remember, the amp (and it's synergy with the speakers), has ime a big effect; and the source / source material has a bigger impact than some people realize. Then when you add room acoustics and set up into the equation, it can all become a bit of a minefield.

If the source / source material starts off compromised, then the rest of the system will not improve on it.....though some systems will shine a spotlight on this more than others. Also, if an amp can't control the speakers properly, this will give a muddled sound.

 

[kingnothing83]

I agree with what you're saying. In my situation I wouldn't actually go as far to say as it is less enjoyable, just that I have to adjust and get over less enjoyable details. The sound is the opposite of muddled so I think the amp is doign a good job, I did have a rotel RA08SE hooked up but sold it on as to my ears the SR5007 was better musically (that's probably a controvertial view but this AV reciever is very musical, potentially because audyssey flat EQ seems to do a great job of sorting out room acoustics). So I think this is down to source material as much as anything

Does anyone use spotify in extreme quality mode (320kbps)? If so listen to Goldfrapp - Tales of Us - Jo. There's a particularly audible and annoying crackle from the left speaker at 23,27,29,33, bascially every 4 seconds following the beat. Similarly on (don't judge me this was a 90's party playlist!) Reef - Together - The Best of - place your hands. This time the right channel from the first second and lasting a few seconds.

I guess potentially spotify is at fault here? Spotify is how I listen to the majority of music these days, I know you give up a little in quality but the difference between this and FLAC is a worthy trade off to have so much music at my disposal

 

[CnoEvil]

The one thing I try not to do, is judge, either people's taste in music or equipment preferences, and if I came across as patronizing, I apologize.....but it's hard to know where someone's knowledge base starts.

320 kbps can sound very good, provided it has been mastered well. A quick listen to Linn Radio will confirm this, as it sounds better than some of my Red Book quality material.

Though for serious listening, I would always revert to FLAC through a Linn Streamer......but that's just me.

 

[kingnothing83]

You didn't sound patronising at all 🙂 Thanks for the input!

I still listen to the odd FLAC but not as much as I'd like to

 

[davedotco]

Just trying the Goldfrapp track, I had been playing the Goldberg Variations (played by the Amati string trio) so pretty similar....... 😉

Apart from some pretty over the top processing on Alison's voice I could not get any strange noises....... :?

As always I recommend a step by step approach, start off with you system in it's simplest possible configuration in both hardware and software terms and see if you can replicate the issue, then try different things, one at a time to see if you can find out what is causing the problem.

Be aware that this might be a streaming problem, so try other sources if you can.

 

[kingnothing83]

Hmm interesting that you can't hear the issue...what's your setup?

I can hear it through my speakers and also through my iPhone and headphones so the only common factor here is spotify through my iPhone (that's the source in both cases).

Maybe I should download the track in FLAC and see what difference it makes!

 

[davedotco]

Hmm interesting that you can't hear the issue...what's your setup? I can hear it through my speakers and also through my iPhone and headphones so the only common factor here is spotify through my iPhone (that's the source in both cases). Maybe I should download the track in FLAC and see what difference it makes!

Interesting.

Macbook>optical>fiio dac>active monitors. Nothing obvious along the lines you describe.

Do you have another source, to eliminate the iPhone? Mrs DDC has the iPad with her, so I can not check if it is an iOS issue.

 

[kingnothing83]

thanks for checking it out with your setup!

no other source, but i'll try downloading a flac/mp3 tonight and streaming it from the laptop/headphones into laptop

 

[Sospri]

Yes,

Concur with DDC here, I also played Jo and could not here any cracke noise,

I listened FLAC > SBT > into Supernait, with no problem at all, agree with the over processing though, sounds like your source mate....................

 

[kingnothing83]

Either i'm going mad (possible) or I'm hearing something noone else is 🙂

I've just paid 99p to download it from iTunes and I hear the same from my work pc with different headphones! Now nothing is in common with the thing I originally heard

How about this...Lou Reed - Romeo Had Juliette. First hear some crackle from the left channel at 54 seconds. Let me know if you hear anything or the voices are in my head 😉

 

[Sorreltiger]

I was intruiged by this , so I just tried out the tracks you've mentioned on Spotfy Premium. Sorry, no crackle at all

 

[kingnothing83]

either I have incredibly good hearing (not likely) or this is a source problem (spotify premium from an iPhone on extreme quality setting)

I just downloaded the Lou Reed track (only 128kb) and it plays without crackling on my speakers and headphones! But on spotify it's very audible on my speakers and just about audible on headphones 🙂

 

[SuperGregNumber1]

I just listened to the Goldfrapp piece on a pair of AKG K545s and heard the clicking, something I couldn't hear with my Grado SR60s. It sounds like a problem with the sample, like they haven't edited out another sound before it well enough. Not much you can do about this song , but it sounds like the CM5s are very revealing of faults in your recordings.

 

[kingnothing83]

Great, good to know it's not me hearing things and that my speakers are doing a good job!

Those other two tracks I mentioned are far worse and I think in both cases it's spotify as from other sources the recording is clear

never had issues with spotify but it's being shown up by my new speakers, might try another streaming service

 

[tyranniux42]

Yup, can hear it loud and clear on the ovators although it's not really a crackle, more a double plucked string or similar which I suppose does sound a little odd if not properly resolved. Quite easy to hear what it actually is even from spotify via the unitilite into the nait xs.

Regards

 

[Ben123]

Welcome to real hifi, the production quality of a song now matters! 🙂

I have the CM1's and went through the same process you've gone through. I upgraded from some cheapy wharfedale 9.1's (£100) so was a big difference in quality.

Cm series tweeter is very revealing but not in a bad way, you'll get used to it. Creakings on piano chairs, drum sticks against snare drum rims and various other random noises that should never have made it on to the production release of a song can all be heard.

Cm range is a very quick speaker (which is why i bought them) so even short noises (clicks and pops) will be picked up and brutally presented. Slower speakers will smooth it over.

With all the money sound studios spend on gear you would hope the production would be good. Half of the reason i listen to Deadmau5 and some Hed Kandi stuff is that i can pretty much always guarantee an excellent if not perfect production.

 

[kingnothing83]

Yeah I am kind of surprised to be honest, as far as I was concerned my 685’s were real hi-fi and generally it wasn’t clear if the CM5’s would be a big or a small step up. But I find them a massive step up, it’s frustrating at times to be put off by bad quality recording but when you do find a well-produced one it’s infinitely more rewarding. It’s even revealing issues in films which is somewhat of a surprise too. I thought the latest action movies would be perfect but I hear the odd issue with them too.

It makes me want to get a CM centre to see what impact that has over a HTM62

 

[unknown]

kingnothing83, what stands have you got the cm5 on ?
if you have tried different stands, were there any big differences ? (are your stands heavy, mass loaded with blutach between speaker and stand ? are the bottom of the stands spiked ? are your speakers just "flat" on the stand top plates ? a lot of questions but interested as i'm considering the cm5 plus other £800ish speakers for a future upgrade. have checked out photos on google and there seems to be an endless array of stands these speakers are used with - in some cases they are just placed on a desktop ! are they stand sensitive ?
thanks for reply

 

[Ben123]

Yeah a few of people on the forums (not necessarily WHF) said the cm range wasnt worth it over the 685s etc. Turned out to be bad advice and glad i demoed before parting with cash as the cm range was worth every penny over the 685's.

i've demoed the cm centre - it will compliment your cm5's perfectly of course, but at the time i decided to just have a 2 channel system for films.

 

[Ben123]

mikefarrow, check out the matching fs700 stands. they can be mass loaded, weigh a tonne even when they are not mass loaded. Best of all the speakers can be bolted to the stands so they ll never get knocked off.

looks the bees knees too - just a bit pricey

 

[unknown]

ben123, thanks for advice. i take it that these speakers are designed to perform their best when on heavy stands. (and not the super light weight torlyte wood design by russ andrews) i like the idea that they can be bolted to the dedicated stands to prevent being knocked over ! i take it that this "bolting" provides the ultimate coupling of spealer to stand which these speakers need to perform their best ? its confusing when speakers are reviewed and judged when the actual stands used can influence the sound produced - if only there was an industry standard refeference stand.........

 

[Ben123]

cm series cabinet construction (very heavy for size) is among the finest of any speaker. and yeah i suppose bolting the speaker to the stand will only add to that. you want the speaker cones to move not the cabinet. you could probably improve on it slightly by adding a rubber gasket between the speaker base and the stand. but havent felt the need tbh

i havent done extensive speaker stand sound tests but i jus think that overall aesthetics and not worrying about someone knocking my speakers off is worth the money. the way i look at it those bolts are protecting my investment

if you ever get the chance to see the fs700 stands in the flesh and lift them you will realise why they cost so much. apart from the bits that can be mass loaded, they are solid cast iron.

 

[kingnothing83]

@mike Stands are Atacama aurora 6 – decent stands and most importantly for the other half – they look good. They don’t have blu tac but have some rubber pieces built into the base of the stand, I have spikes, but the stands aren’t mass loaded (they could be). I don’t think those stands are made any more which is a real shame, they’re pretty heavy even when not mass loaded but with some atabites in there they’d be firmed up. Would that likely only impact the bass or also the treble? I almost went for floorstanders but really pleased I went with CM5’s and a sub so that I can be in more control of the bass and have good clarity.

I’d really recommend the CM5’s and I found them ex demo with a 2 year warranty for £500 which was a bit of a bargain!

@ben I read those comments too but after buying the CM5’s the difference really is night and day! I’d be tempted to go for the fs700 stands if I ever had kids as I think it would be less likely to be pushed over by a child!