Best compact headphone listening solution?

[Jasonovich]

https://www.whathifi.com/speakers/wireless-speakers/these-massively-oversized-headphones-are-actually-a-bluetooth-speaker-you-can-buy

these Planners are the best solution 😆🤣

What da........!!! 🤣

 

[RTHerringbone]

Humour me.....

I quite like the idea of a DAP but don't really know what they are 😆

I'd like a portable audio solution that I can either use on rare commutes into the office, or (more likely) in common wanders around the house into rooms where my current main systems aren't based. So: is a DAP the best option? If so: where do I start - what are some decent options to look at? Budget is flexible as usual, but I'd like the whole package (DAP and headphones) to be sub £1,000, preferably sub £750.

Requirements are TIDAL and Spotify integration and I don't know if this is a thing, but can DAPs act as a streamer as well as a storage unit? I can see a benefit of both, and if at home I could just use it as a streaming device in any room. I also don't know what their limitations are in terms of headphones. I would need to use headphones rather than IEMs and from a commuting POV I suppose closed-back has to be the socially responsible way forward. I've been intrigued by Meze and their newest 99 Classics would tick an easy box - can a DAP power those sufficiently?

 

[RTHerringbone]

Just rummaged about and found my dad's old DAP (Sony NWZ-ZX1) but it has no peripherals so I'm not quite sure how usable it is. As a minimum I need a propriety power cable as it looks like a funky input. There's a USB-B slot which I assume means you need to physically copy music over to it, but I could well be wrong. Might try and resurrect that to see if I actually use it.

 

[Jasonovich]

Just rummaged about and found my dad's old DAP (Sony NWZ-ZX1) but it has no peripherals so I'm not quite sure how usable it is. As a minimum I need a propriety power cable as it looks like a funky input. There's a USB-B slot which I assume means you need to physically copy music over to it, but I could well be wrong. Might try and resurrect that to see if I actually use it.

It's a bit of a relic RT 🙂
Get yourself a FiiO M21, or a HiBy. The former is about £270 on Amazon, you may find cheaper if you look around.



PS. It works well with Meze or FiiO FTI or FT13 (dynamic closeback)

 

[RTHerringbone]

How do you transfer music onto a DAP? Can it all be done over WiFi through apps @Jasonovich ? Like it's treated as a separate on-network device?

Ideally I'd like to just install the equivalent of TIDAL or Spotify Connect to the DAP and install locally.

 

[Jasonovich]

How do you transfer music onto a DAP? Can it all be done over WiFi through apps @Jasonovich ? Like it's treated as a separate on-network device?

Ideally I'd like to just install the equivalent of TIDAL or Spotify Connect to the DAP and install locally.

Firstly all today's branded DAPs have TF SD Card slot. So you need one of those for your DAP. 1 TB should do it, avoid generic cheap Chinese and be aware not all branded TF SD memory are genuine.

There's many ways to do it it's all PC dependent. I assume your backup music is stored on your PC?

The most straight forward is get yourself USB microSD card adapter, format it to exFat or NTFS if it requires formatting and simply copy and paste your music files to TF SD Card.

Or you can download the DAP USB drivers from suppliers site, this will allow your PC to recognise the device and follow as above.

I have my mobile linked to my PC, same thing, most DAPs are android based. Also, as it is also an Android device, you can download all your streaming apps like Spotify, Tidal etc.

 

[RTHerringbone]

How does it work if you don't have a PC? My music is either streamed or physical vinyl (which isn't really DAP compatible!) I just use a Chromebook as my "laptop".

I'd love a product where I can install and download music locally at maximum quality, in much the same way as I can on my mobile. If a DAP offers no tangible upside from me downloading on my phone, then I can save myself a few quid, though I'd hope a DAP offers a vastly superior DAC compared to a mobile.

 

[Messiah]

Perhaps consider a dongle DAC for your phone?

 

[Jasonovich]

How does it work if you don't have a PC? My music is either streamed or physical vinyl (which isn't really DAP compatible!) I just use a Chromebook as my "laptop".

I'd love a product where I can install and download music locally at maximum quality, in much the same way as I can on my mobile. If a DAP offers no tangible upside from me downloading on my phone, then I can save myself a few quid, though I'd hope a DAP offers a vastly superior DAC compared to a mobile.

Oh ha ha ha Ok!

Most DAPs are wireless and have Bluetooth and you can use it as a streamer around the house. If you're streaming wireless, you can download music to your DAP device directly.

I'm not really familiar with Chromebook, I assume it does the same kind of stuff as a PC.

If you have music stored on your Chromebook, and there's a USB slot you should be able to copy music on to microSD card.

DAP is better sounding than your mobile. Does it justify the extra costs?
It really depends on the quality of the DAP.
Do your research and weigh up the pros and cons.
When I'm commuting I have my DAP drilling into my head.
Leaving my hands free to tap into messages on my mobile. The two can coexist. 😀

 

[RTHerringbone]

The FiiO M21 is an interesting option. I'd seen it mentioned in various online reviews and videos and frankly the cassette case accessory is also very cool:

View: https://youtu.be/hKLDqqWipB4?si=R2jkS3AsMVVfAsIB


It has me now wondering that IF I were to go down this route primarily for commuting, if I'd consider bluetooth headphones. Clearly not the optimum solution sonically, but a pragmatic compromise for the use case. Presumably I could get Bluetooth headphones with optional cables for any time when I'm at home listening and not near my current setups.

 

[Rodolfo]

(I had missed that this is an old post; I may be repeating myself here partly or mostly.)

I have and use three DAPs: a 3+-year old HiBy R3 Pro Saber, a 1.5-year old HIBYDIGITAL M300, and a 2-month old Fiio M21. I also recently trialed and returned a JadeAudio JM21 and a HiBy R4 -both able, but not as good for me as the M21. All DAPs I've had include a microSD card slot -for up to 2TB of storage, audio jacks, and (LDAC) Bluetooth. The latter two are android-based so I can install any app I want, including Tidal and Spotify. The first/older is not, but it does come -like some other non-android HiBy DAPs- with Tidal and Qobuz apps/support built-in (I have no experience with either). The first two DAPs fit in the little coin/watch pockets of my jeans, The M300 has a 3.5mm jack, while the R3 and M21 have balanced jacks as well. The M21 has a remarkable (unique-to-DAPs, I believe) Desktop Mode, which does remarkable powerful and dynamic things to my stereo when connected to its PC-USB input -at least- of my Rotel A12 integrated. The R3 has also offered a less-impressive such connection for its 3+ years.

I'm pro-DAP. The last phone I had that offered card storage and an audio jack was a 2019 Samsung S10e: I had 2 and still hold on to and take care of one of them. I can play through my own digital music collection and stream Amazon subscription music though each device.

 

[RTHerringbone]

@Rodolfo if you have the time and energy, could you give a bit more detail about your FiiO M21 please? You use the same sources as me so I'm interested to understand things like:

1. How easy is it to add / remove tracks / playlists / albums from the TIDAL and Spotify apps?
2. How much space is the average lossless album / track taking up? I'm keen to know just how much music these things can store on a 2TB card. I'm pretty sure it'll be way beyond what most people need but I have no idea how much space a lossless track takes up, so it'd be good to get an idea
3. Any other impressions you have about things like general usability, sound quality, battery longevity and what headphones / IEMs you've used with it
4. Most important of all - have you paid for the extra gimicky Walkman-style case?

 

[PieterG]

How much space is the average lossless album / track taking up?

Let me look that up for you 😉

Format	Approx MB / minute	Approx MB / 4 min song
16-bit / 44.1 kHz (CD)	5–7 MB	20–28 MB
24-bit / 44.1 kHz	8–10 MB	32–40 MB
24-bit / 48 kHz	9–11 MB	36–44 MB
24-bit / 96 kHz	16–20 MB	64–80 MB
24-bit / 192 kHz	32–40 MB	128–160 MB

 

[RTHerringbone]

Oh crikey - so a 2TB card can store the equivalent of 2,000 albums quite easily up to 48 kHz. That's more than enough for the vast majority of people.

This could get expensive.

 

[Jasonovich]

I got my wife FiiO M21 and got a nice shiny leather case to go with it, but madam prefers her cheap DAP with non-Android software, also a FiiO.

She tells me it's way too bulky and complicated, she not prepared allocate her time, to learn the product. She wants something she can switch on and almost instant music.

I have the M21 on standby, if I fail to charge the battery on my TempoTec V6 when I'm commuting, the M21 is there on the shelf waiting for me.

Side by side comparison with the V6, the M21 is more bulkier, in terms of sound quality I think I prefer the V6 but maybe it's because I'm use to it.







Ps.

Just to add the V6 is the more flexible option in terms of more demanding headphones.
There's a low power output balanced or unbalanced and there's a power amplified output also balanced and unbalanced. Really is a well thought out product.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Hmm. It's tempting; I really don't need one but that music magpie voice keeps chipping away at me.

The reality is I probably wouldn't really use this for commuting much at all, so it's a question of whether I can justify forking out about £600 for the M21 and some price-appropriate headphones to pair with it when it'd only get used on holiday, trips away and perhaps outside when it finally stops raining.

 

[Jasonovich]

Hmm. It's tempting; I really don't need one but that music magpie voice keeps chipping away at me.

The reality is I probably wouldn't really use this for commuting much at all, so it's a question of whether I can justify forking out about £600 for the M21 and some price-appropriate headphones to pair with it when it'd only get used on holiday, trips away and perhaps outside when it finally stops raining.

I go for long walks in the commons, really therapeutic, music and manure goes well together, not so good if you trod on it! You need a DAP RT! ha ha ha 🙂

 

[RTHerringbone]

What headphones do you use with yours @Jasonovich ? Is this where your FiiO FT1 get some use?

 

[Jasonovich]

What headphones do you use with yours @Jasonovich ? Is this where your FiiO FT1 get some use?

Yes I use the FT1. Really good closed dynamic cans. There's also the more pricier sibling FT13, which I hear, are even better.

Before selling my Focal Elegia's, semi closed, other commuters didn't seem to mind, maybe they were mesmerised by the bling. I used the Focal's for commuting, excellent sound (the FT1's were not that far off!) but had to be very careful travelling to London. Those shiny silvery headphones of exceptional quality was attracting the magpies!

 

[RTHerringbone]

I'd either go down the Meze 99 Classic Gen2 path OR possibly the Bowers & Wilkins Px7 S3 route.

The latter can be wired but would also open me up to a commuter friendly option with ANC and BT if I felt like committing that audiophile crime; I sort of feel like the portability of a DAP needs to be paired appropriately and I could always use a set of my planars if just listening to the M21 in the garden.

The B&W and Meze are similar price-wise and I'm sure the B&W have been available on sale already, but they really "don't do it for me" aesthetically. I need to do a lot more research into headphones with commuter functionality and weigh up just how much it matters to me. I don't hate the idea of the upside of occasional BT use, being fully aware of the technical downside.

 

[Jasonovich]

I'd either go down the Meze 99 Classic Gen2 path OR possibly the Bowers & Wilkins Px7 S3 route.

The latter can be wired but would also open me up to a commuter friendly option with ANC and BT if I felt like committing that audiophile crime; I sort of feel like the portability of a DAP needs to be paired appropriately and I could always use a set of my planars if just listening to the M21 in the garden.

The B&W and Meze are similar price-wise and I'm sure the B&W have been available on sale already, but they really "don't do it for me" aesthetically. I need to do a lot more research into headphones with commuter functionality and weigh up just how much it matters to me. I don't hate the idea of the upside of occasional BT use, being fully aware of the technical downside.

Meze 99 are top notch dynamics.

B&W possibly the best wireless you can buy, not a fan but I've already stepped into the dark side after purchasing Apple TV streaming box, who knows tomorrow.

https://www.av.com/Headphones/Focal-Azurys-Closed-Back-Headphones/6F9A

Not sure if this appeals to you AV.Com have greatly reduced the Focal Azurys, sky blue cans (not BT) are a bit unusual, but being French, they could be forgiven 🙂

Amazon still selling full price £483.94, AV.com have reduced them to £308

 

[RTHerringbone]

They appear a bargain and would vie for a spot in the rotation with Meze's potentially, but I do feel like I need to read up on the audible downsides of Bluetooth before starting to narrow the field down a bit. I could also presumably use BT headphones with the TV downstairs? I usually only get access to the "big TV" when everyone else has gone to bed, so being able to crank the volume up would be a bonus.

 

[Rodolfo]

@Rodolfo if you have the time and energy, could you give a bit more detail about your FiiO M21 please? You use the same sources as me so I'm interested to understand things like:

1. How easy is it to add / remove tracks / playlists / albums from the TIDAL and Spotify apps?
2. How much space is the average lossless album / track taking up? I'm keen to know just how much music these things can store on a 2TB card. I'm pretty sure it'll be way beyond what most people need but I have no idea how much space a lossless track takes up, so it'd be good to get an idea
3. Any other impressions you have about things like general usability, sound quality, battery longevity and what headphones / IEMs you've used with it
4. Most important of all - have you paid for the extra gimicky Walkman-style case?

Surely, as I am able:
1. I don't use either, although I did subscribe to Spotify before its podcast-priority re-direction/-investment: I subscribe to Amazon, and I only stream its albums and playlists. I'd expect that one could do these things (only) as well as on any DAP. There is an M21 thread at the head-fi.org forum where you may read-up or inquire on this Q.

2. I can summarize/ballpark it this way: I have about 1100 albums that include 13,661 tracks. Virtually all of my Jazz and Classical -about 50% of the total- are ripped in FLAC (mostly) or WMA lossless (FLAC is more efficient, but I like them both). The current total takes up 233GB and I can still fit it in 256GB cards. These stats are from my MusicBee program, with which I've ripped and managed my collection for about a decade.

3. I have two other (more compact) HiBy DAPS that I still mostly use. The M21 is special in that it has a Desktop mode that generates a signal that through an input in my Rotel A12, makes my system perform/sound magnificently. This unit is equipped with TWO USB-C ports and the mode involves connecting the M21 also/simultaneously to a power supply through the second/input USB-C port so that the device's amplifier/componentry is fully dedicated to OUTPUT through the primary USB-C port. This mode is all cabled/wired and I use my hi-fi as I normally do but specifically through the PC-USB input to access the M21 as the source. (That writing can surely be improved.) I do also use the same head and earphones that I use on everything else which means two Sennheiser HD598s (with balanced cables), a Sony 7506 (c. balanced connector?), Bluetooth Soundcore Q35, Fiio FH3 earphones, and most recently, the Fiio FT1 Pro. They all sound great through the M21, though not especially greater than they do through my other DAPS, my hi-fi, or a Fiio K11 which I was first trying/testing this weekend. CERTAINLY, for me, it is the Desktop mode that distinguishes the M21 in my hi-fi practice, and without which I probably would not have kept it. I will add that it is now/definitely my best DAP and the one I'd keep if I had to keep only one. I also trialed the also-android Class-A amp-equipped HiBy R4, but I returned that because it is less-pretty, a little heavier, and did not bowl me over like the M21's desktop mode, but now I'm repeating myself. Absent you know what, I probably would have kept the R4 (because I did require an Android DAP for Amazon music that also had a USB-out for my hi-fi -which I've had -sans Amazon streaming- with one of my HiBy DAPs for years). I also returned the thus-satisfactory, technically- and cost-impressive, but too-plasticky Fiio/Jade Audio JM21, by the by.

4. I am fully-satisfied with the tight-fitting and light silicone case in which the M21 arrived. It's not as impressive as the very nice leather case included with the HiBy R5 II, but that was several years ago, and I returned that one too. I have had zero interest in the gimmicky-indeed cassette simulation case since I first saw the M21 advertised -although I do admire that Fiio is playing and offering this inexpensive and creative but totally-optional way to play with this player. Note that that optional case does have some limits on the control of and access to the M21.

I'd be glad to clarify or elaborate as you like and as I am able.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Thanks @Rodolfo 👍

That all sounds good and it certainly sounds like the Desktop Mode (which I wouldn't need to use) adds a lot to your system as a whole. The fact that the M21 powers all of your headphones to a level that is comparable to your other DAPS and systems is also fairly positive.