Benefit of a streamer?

[Kevin Stephens]

Sorry if I've missed a FAQ

Does a streamer offer any SQ or usability benefits over a laptop, with hi res audio files and internet radio connected by USB cable to a good quality DAC?

 

[Overdose]

Sorry if I've missed a FAQ

Does a streamer offer any SQ or usability benefits over a laptop, with hi res audio files and internet radio connected by USB cable to a good quality DAC?

No.

 

[nopiano]

Usability - yes, because you don't need your laptop in the same room, or at all, depending on where your music is stored. And you don't need a set of cables to trip over either! You might prefer to use a NAS or set of USB pens for your music, bearing in mind hard disks are not for life. You can usually control a streamer from a remote or an iThingy app.

SQ - debatable, but I doubt that my mate would have bought a Linn Klimax DS (c £12,000) if a £300 laptop would have sounded as good. Ditto for any Linn or Naim streamer probably.

My used Squeezebox Touch was cheaper than most DACs worth using, and that's is a streamer with DAC combined. You can use an external DAC too if you have the money, and can find a better sounding one.

 

[professorhat]

Hmm:? ; looking forward to the debate....:type:

You won't hear anything new if that's what you're hoping

 

[Kevin Stephens]

Thanks nopiano

Usability - yes, because you don't need your laptop in the same room, or at all, depending on where your music is stored. And you don't need a set of cables to trip over either! You might prefer to use a NAS or set of USB pens for your music, bearing in mind hard disks are not for life. You can usually control a streamer from a remote or an iThingy app.

that's not really a problem. Laptop plugged into DAC with short USB cable, laptop display to TV via HDMI and operated by wireless keyboard and mouse. Laptop music and all other stuff backed up to seperate HDD

SQ - debatable, but I doubt that my mate would have bought a Linn Klimax DS (c £12,000) if a £300 laptop would have sounded as good. Ditto for any Linn or Naim streamer probably.

Hmm:? ; looking forward to the debate....:type:

 

[Overdose]

Hmm:? ; looking forward to the debate....:type:

You won't hear anything new if that's what you're hoping

+1

If you are looking for a debate to make your decision, I will save you the bother. There is only one way to know for sure and that is to listen to several options. If you cannot get to listen to the various options, then it's down to what marketing spin you believe.

 

[Kevin Stephens]

Sorry if I've missed a FAQ

Oops, should have searched properly:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/what-is-the-point-of-a-streamer

 

[busb]

A dedicated streamer is great for those who don't want to mess with either a PC or laptop. The most important issues are the file format (MP3, flac etc) & the quality of the D to A conversion. A stremer isn't processing other tasks, doesn't threaten to reboot to load updates but may well be running an embedded version of Windows.

Some streamers just require a pair of active speakers to complete the system so are attractive to some for that reason alone. Some very popular solutions such as the Logitech SBT were dropped, leaving a big hole in the market.

 

[Overdose]

A dedicated streamer is great for those who don't want to mess with either a PC or laptop. The most important issues are the file format (MP3, flac etc) & the quality of the D to A conversion. A stremer isn't processing other tasks, doesn't threaten to reboot to load updates but may well be running an embedded version of Windows.

Some streamers just require a pair of active speakers to complete the system so are attractive to some for that reason alone. Some very popular solutions such as the Logitech SBT were dropped, leaving a big hole in the market.

If using a computer as a streamer, all non vital processes can be turned off. A computer can play ALL media file types.

The computer is a streamer and more besides. A streamer is just a media player.

My computer has never auto rebooted or had any kind of playback issues related to concurrent running processes or updates.

 

[Anonymous]

I would say the main benefit of a streamer is the enhanced sound quality. No CD player will ever sound as good because they have moving mechanical parts.

[USER BANNED BY MODS - reregistered after multiple bans]

 

[Overdose]

I would say the main benefit of a streamer is the enhanced sound quality. No CD player will ever sound as good because they have moving mechanical parts.

I'm not sure that really addresses the OPs question, ie

"Does a streamer offer any SQ or usability benefits over a laptop, with hi res audio files and internet radio connected by USB cable to a good quality DAC? "

 

[busb]

I would say the main benefit of a streamer is the enhanced sound quality. No CD player will ever sound as good because they have moving mechanical parts.

Welcome to the forum. Are you saying this from experience? Most PC/laptops & many streamers have more moving parts such as HDDs & fans.

 

[Overdose]

The OPs question was whether or not a streamer offers anything over a computer/DAC combination. It doesn't, they are one and the same thing for streaming purposes, if anything the streamer is less versatile.

The argument that the computer needs to be on to stream is not valid, how well do streamers work when switched off?

When using a price comparison with high end streamers, as if it is actually relevant, then the counter to that is there are many very expensive DACs to choose from, so a computer audio set up can be just as expensive as any other high end system.

 

[scotto]

I would say the main benefit of a streamer is the enhanced sound quality. No CD player will ever sound as good because they have moving mechanical parts.

[USER BANNED BY MODS - reregistered after multiple bans]

Maybe on paper and especially in the sales brochures, but in reality I heard my rega apollo-r up against a linn streamer and the CDP left the streamer for dead.

The streamer sounded flat and compressed, nothing breaking free from the speakers at all.

Even the shop owner who seemed desperate to get his account volume up there admitted it.

I am all good with it I can get cd's so cheap because everyone else is using streamers and laptops, carry on streaming 🙂

 

[busb]

The OPs question was whether or not a streamer offers anything over a computer/DAC combination. It doesn't, they are one and the same thing for streaming purposes, if anything the streamer is less versatile.

The argument that the computer needs to be on to stream is not valid, how well do streamers work when switched off?

When using a price comparison with high end streamers, as if it is actually relevant, then the counter to that is there are many very expensive DACs to choose from, so a computer audio set up can be just as expensive as any other high end system.

I have not & probably never will buy a streamer myself but forums covering the topic are filled with posts arguing over what version of firmware, whether or not to use WASPI drivers, whether or not the stream is bit-perfect or not. It ain't difficult to work out why many can't be doing with audio under windows. Mac users seem to have an easier time! The streamer option may not give any advantages regarding SQ but convenience, YES!

 

[Overdose]

The OPs question was whether or not a streamer offers anything over a computer/DAC combination. It doesn't, they are one and the same thing for streaming purposes, if anything the streamer is less versatile.

The argument that the computer needs to be on to stream is not valid, how well do streamers work when switched off?

When using a price comparison with high end streamers, as if it is actually relevant, then the counter to that is there are many very expensive DACs to choose from, so a computer audio set up can be just as expensive as any other high end system.

I have not & probably never will buy a streamer myself but forums covering the topic are filled with posts arguing over what version of firmware, whether or not to use WASPI drivers, whether or not the stream is bit-perfect or not. It ain't difficult to work out why many can't be doing with audio under windows. Mac users seem to have an easier time! The streamer option may not give any advantages regarding SQ but convenience, YES!

But that is assuming that people want to bother with settings in the first place. You can just play any media without touching any settings, it's not mandatory to tweak.

 

[busb]

The OPs question was whether or not a streamer offers anything over a computer/DAC combination. It doesn't, they are one and the same thing for streaming purposes, if anything the streamer is less versatile.

The argument that the computer needs to be on to stream is not valid, how well do streamers work when switched off?

When using a price comparison with high end streamers, as if it is actually relevant, then the counter to that is there are many very expensive DACs to choose from, so a computer audio set up can be just as expensive as any other high end system.

I have not & probably never will buy a streamer myself but forums covering the topic are filled with posts arguing over what version of firmware, whether or not to use WASPI drivers, whether or not the stream is bit-perfect or not. It ain't difficult to work out why many can't be doing with audio under windows. Mac users seem to have an easier time! The streamer option may not give any advantages regarding SQ but convenience, YES!

But that is assuming that people want to bother with settings in the first place. You can just play any media without touching any settings, it's not mandatory to tweak.

Consider this.Someone uses their laptop to play music from without messing with the settings. They are persauded to try a streamer at home & finds it sounds suffiently better to consider buying one. You are rightly saying that computer audio can sound just as good as a streamer but unless that installation is optimised, there's a good chance a streamer will sound better because it's already been optimised for its single task. Whether or not either of us have the technical skills to optimise an installations mean Jack to someone who doesn't. Some people just don't like PCs or laptops so a streamer is ideal for them - the fact they are paying more than we would is their choice. If a dealer tells a potential customer that a streamer is always better, he/she is lying or mistaken. If the dealers says streamers need less configuration, I'd nod without buying one. Besides, some like their stereo system to look like a stereo system with nicely matching bits.

 

[Overdose]

I agree with some of your points, but it depends on what you want a digital streamer to do. If it is simply to stream music from an online source, then that is fairly straightforward. If however, it is for replay of ripped music, stored on a NAS, I'd argue that the majority of people tech savvy enough to rip and store said music in the first place, would be completely 'au fait' with either technology and of course, there is also the contentious issue of the real need for bit perfect playback anyway, ie how much difference does it make in the grand scheme of the whole system?

Given that most people have a computer of some description in their house, a streamer is going to offer no more than what the owner currently has. I would agree that they are easier to use in some circumstances, but would not offer any more than this marginal benefit, of course, there does not need to be a benefit for someone to want to buy something. Many other factors come in to play, such as you mentioned, the aesthetics and brand name even.

 

[manicm]

that's not really a problem. Laptop plugged into DAC with short USB cable, laptop display to TV via HDMI and operated by wireless keyboard and mouse. Laptop music and all other stuff backed up to seperate HDD

And that's precisely why I would prefer a dedicated streamer - I don't want the telly on in any way or form when I'm listening to music, it's acceptable for parties with friends but otherwise no. And faff around with a keyboard? Blasphemy 😛

 

[manicm]

Saying a dedicated streamer is no better than a PC is the saying the same about a dedicated CD player. There are some of us who don't want to faff around and want to choose the music from the sofa - sure enough this may be possible with a PC, Airplay, ATV etc, but I'd prefer a device devoted to the duty, and a NAS can be hidden out of sight. This would include a Sonos.

And sure enough my aim at year-end is to get myself a streaming sytem, circumstances permitting.

 

[Overdose]

that's not really a problem. Laptop plugged into DAC with short USB cable, laptop display to TV via HDMI and operated by wireless keyboard and mouse. Laptop music and all other stuff backed up to seperate HDD

And that's precisely why I would prefer a dedicated streamer - I don't want the telly on in any way or form when I'm listening to music, it's acceptable for parties with friends but otherwise no. And faff around with a keyboard? Blasphemy 😛

I think the point was that a laptop can be a complete media player and not just a music player.

Keyboard? What's wrong with a tablet?

 

[manicm]

No-one's disputing a laptop can be a complete media player - but it doesn't offer me the remote convenience of a dedicated device. Also, if I want to dabble in hi-res audio the laptop is out of the window - I don't want to manually change bitrate settings etc, or purchase expensive software to do so automatically. And how will a tablet communicate with the PC? I belive Foobar has such functionality. But I'd still prefer a streamer. And I have a laptop I use for my work and pleasure and would use it for ripping - I'd just copy them to a NAS.

 

[professorhat]

Told ya 😉

 

[Overdose]

No-one's disputing a laptop can be a complete media player - but it doesn't offer me the remote convenience of a dedicated device. Also, if I want to dabble in hi-res audio the laptop is out of the window - I don't want to manually change bitrate settings etc, or purchase expensive software to do so automatically. And how will a tablet communicate with the PC? I belive Foobar has such functionality. But I'd still prefer a streamer. And I have a laptop I use for my work and pleasure and would use it for ripping - I'd just copy them to a NAS.

Who's to say the computer isn't dedicated as a streamer? Laptops are cheap enough. A streamer is a basic computer and there is no reason why a computer cannot deal with varying bit rates on the fly. In addition, there are plenty of apps available for mobile devices such as tablets that act as remotes for computer based media players. XBMC and its remote app spring to mind, there are of course others.

There is nothing wrong with streamers or indeed the choice to use one, but they don't offer anything over a computer and this fact is important if you are new to streaming and already have a computer, which is quite likely these days.

Take the Mac min as an example. I use it to play DVDs, stream video, music and use it for a variety of other computer type jobs. It is accessible and controlled by any other device that I have linked it to in the house, so three laptops, iPhone and iPad all have access to it's drive content, all can remotely control it and stream from it or control its streaming. Its music library and any other content is accessible from anywhere in the house. Ignore the fact that its attached to active speakers, it could be on the end of some very expensive DAC.

So to answer the OPs question again, a streamer offers nothing over a computer because it is only a limited computer in itself. A laptop or dedicated Pc however, have not been neutered and retain the full potential of a truly multi media device, amongst other things.

Regarding the front end in question, it is the DAC and in particular the analogue output section where the magic happens and this could just as easily be in an external DAC as built into a streamer.

 

[andyjm]

I like to think of myself as being open to new ideas.

I was a newly minted engineer when CDs came out (I am that old), and I remember reading laughably inaccurate articles in HiFi magazines about digital, complete with diagrams that looked like staircases, and post after post from readers about how they would never buy a CD...

I was an early adopter of streaming, back in the days when it was still 'Slim Devices' and mainstream HiFi magazines wouldn't even review network based players - post after post from readers that they would never give up their CDs...

I think we are close to another significant change - I have been posting about this for a couple of years, but it would seem that things are finally moving in that direction.

It makes no sense to have a separate streamer. The circuit board real estate is tiny, you end up with an empty box. There are real engineering reasons why it is dumb to have a streamer and DAC in separate boxes. OK, so lets put the streamer and DAC together (DAC's are also empty boxes these days). OK, so you still have a (nearly) empty box, why not put the amp in there as well? Finally, a bit of DSP magic and another amp, and you have a bi amped system. Still not much real estate used up, so why not put the whole lot in the speaker enclosure?

I am convinced that active, wireless, streaming speakers are the way of the future. Sonos already make them. Actives are already becoming more commonplace.

I am sure there will be post after post from readers about why they will never give up their separates, but there are real advantages in buying a complete solution. The chances of a home user being able to assemble a collection of separates to match a well engineered single box solution are small. When I last bought a car, it came with engine, gearbox and suspension already installed - each designed and optimised to work together.

Why not speakers / amps / dacs / streamers ?