AVR or Stereo Amp dilemma!

[fuus]

I've been looking for a while to buy a Diamond 220 + Marantz 6005 combo, however my friends keep pushing me towards buying a Yamaha AVR (RXV375 or similar). This setup will only be used in my room, with no visual work at all. Which setup is a better idea / is the difference in quality notable? At some stage in the future I may expand to a Pro Ject Essential II, which of these setups would accomadate that better?

I know my ultimate answer is to go instore and test them, but I live in the centre of Shropshire and there doesn't seem to be anywhere near to test....

Any help appreciated!

Fuus

 

[The_Lhc]

If you're only listening to stereo music then I don't see any point in getting an AV amp, do your friends make a lot of illogical suggestions like this?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/Shropshire+hi-fi/@52.6523311,-2.7342319,9z/data=!3m1!4b1

 

[fuus]

I think they got it from the fact that it would allow expansion to 5.1, but I don't really watch films so it seems pointless to me!

Creative Audio in Shrewsbury have caught my eye, I'll book a demo appointment there at some point.

Cheers Lhc!

 

[bluedroog]

I started out with a two channel system then got distracted by surround sound for many years, while it is fun (for AV) it was really a distraction. You spread your budget thinly and get distracted by bells and whistles, you could make an argument for the bass EQ and various features but honestly stripping my system back and reverting to two channel was the best move I made, with hindsight I wish I had just spend all that money over the years on getting the best stereo system I could rather than adding channels here and there.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Buying a AV receiver could make very good sense.

Features you don't need.....hmmm.

WiFi, Bluetooth, digital inputs, coax, optical, HDMI - if you want to stream music via a lap top, PC, etc
built in DAC, USB ( you may need to check compatibility with your digital devices) and a SUB out if you do decide to go that way.

Sound will not be compromised compared to comparable stereo amps - regardless of what some naysayers may say.

While they don't go 'loud' as earlier as your standard budget amp (they are generally better attenuated) - with a little time and care taken to set the thing up it will be all you need.

If you do audition try a few in your price range.

 

[Leeps]

Buying a AV receiver could make very good sense.

Features you don't need.....hmmm.

WiFi, Bluetooth, digital inputs, coax, optical, HDMI - if you want to stream music via a lap top, PC, etc built in DAC, USB ( you may need to check compatibility with your digital devices) and a SUB out if you do decide to go that way.

Sound will not be compromised compared to comparable stereo amps - regardless of what some naysayers may say.

While they don't go 'loud' as earlier as your standard budget amp (they are generally better attenuated) - with a little time and care taken to set the thing up it will be all you need.

If you do audition try a few in your price range.

Sorry but I have to disagree with this one and I speak as someone who uses an AVR for stereo. The further you go up the AVR price range, the gap in quality does decrease between AVR's and stereo amps (IMO), but if my price range was at the budget end (£300 to £500), I'd personally go for a stereo amp every time. You can get some very well-performing musical amps at that price, but I wouldn't fancy a cheap AVR for music. If you really had to, I'd look for a model that was a year or two old and originally much more expensive. That's one good thing about AVR's - they're value drops much more quickly than most stereo amps.

The original RRP on my AVR was £800, but I bought it for £500 and it's probably worth half that now.

 

[BigH]

Buying a AV receiver could make very good sense.

Features you don't need.....hmmm.

WiFi, Bluetooth, digital inputs, coax, optical, HDMI - if you want to stream music via a lap top, PC, etc built in DAC, USB ( you may need to check compatibility with your digital devices) and a SUB out if you do decide to go that way.

Sound will not be compromised compared to comparable stereo amps - regardless of what some naysayers may say.

While they don't go 'loud' as earlier as your standard budget amp (they are generally better attenuated) - with a little time and care taken to set the thing up it will be all you need.

If you do audition try a few in your price range.

But you can do most of those with a hifi amp anyway?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Seriously leeps I use to think the sameway.

For years I have used a Yamaha ax-620, £500 when New - for stereo, I was happy but thought I could do better. Went to upgrade looking at the stereo amps in the£500 to a grand window I swear the myth these stereo amps sound better was blown clean out the door. These were home demos too.....

The stereo amps delivered all at around 9o'clock and sounded loud but then struggled to control the speakers beyond
that. (Mission 782se)

I tell you, have a look around the forum at sigs a take note of all the unhappy stereo amp owners looking for solutions there is a reason.

Trust me a well sorted av receiver will deliver - with a psu on paper able to supply enough juice for a total 450-500watt output into full range speakers they'll drive most speakers no problem in stereo.

Just be willing to dig round in the menus (may require a tv)

Buying a AV receiver could make very good sense.

Features you don't need.....hmmm.

WiFi, Bluetooth, digital inputs, coax, optical, HDMI - if you want to stream music via a lap top, PC, etc built in DAC, USB ( you may need to check compatibility with your digital devices) and a SUB out if you do decide to go that way.

Sound will not be compromised compared to comparable stereo amps - regardless of what some naysayers may say.

While they don't go 'loud' as earlier as your standard budget amp (they are generally better attenuated) - with a little time and care taken to set the thing up it will be all you need.

If you do audition try a few in your price range.

Sorry but I have to disagree with this one and I speak as someone who uses an AVR for stereo.  The further you go up the AVR price range, the gap in quality does decrease between AVR's and stereo amps (IMO), but if my price range was at the budget end (£300 to £500), I'd personally go for a stereo amp every time.  You can get some very well-performing musical amps at that price, but I wouldn't fancy a cheap AVR for music.  If you really had to, I'd look for a model that was a year or two old and originally much more expensive.  That's one good thing about AVR's - they're value drops much more quickly than most stereo amps.

The original RRP on my AVR was £800, but I bought it for £500 and it's probably worth half that now. 

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Without a separate dac...?

Which stereo amp has HDMI ,WiFi & bluetooth built in?

(HDMI is very rarely spoken of for music - but it goes upto DTS -hd master spec. That means something right?)

Anyway..... With regard output to buck....
Please do tell I must have missed the review...... ;-)

Buying a AV receiver could make very good sense.

Features you don't need.....hmmm.

WiFi, Bluetooth, digital inputs, coax, optical, HDMI - if you want to stream music via a lap top, PC, etc built in DAC, USB ( you may need to check compatibility with your digital devices) and a SUB out if you do decide to go that way.

Sound will not be compromised compared to comparable stereo amps - regardless of what some naysayers may say.

While they don't go 'loud' as earlier as your standard budget amp (they are generally better attenuated) - with a little time and care taken to set the thing up it will be all you need.

If you do audition try a few in your price range.

But you can do most of those with a hifi amp anyway?

 

[BigH]

Without a separate dac...?

Which stereo amp has HDMI ,WiFi & bluetooth built in?

(HDMI is very rarely spoken of for music - but it goes upto DTS -hd master spec. That means something right?)

Anyway..... With regard output to buck.... Please do tell I must have missed the review...... ;-)

Buying a AV receiver could make very good sense.

Features you don't need.....hmmm.

WiFi, Bluetooth, digital inputs, coax, optical, HDMI - if you want to stream music via a lap top, PC, etc built in DAC, USB ( you may need to check compatibility with your digital devices) and a SUB out if you do decide to go that way.

Sound will not be compromised compared to comparable stereo amps - regardless of what some naysayers may say.

While they don't go 'loud' as earlier as your standard budget amp (they are generally better attenuated) - with a little time and care taken to set the thing up it will be all you need.

If you do audition try a few in your price range.

But you can do most of those with a hifi amp anyway?

You dont need a separate dac, how do you think computers play digital music? I streamed spotify from my pc to an old Arcam amp. As for wifi often does not work, but you can buy various devices to do that if you want. As HDMI doubt most people need it. AVR have much higher distortion and there power ratings are for 2 channels driven. The Marantz 6005 has a DAC anyway.

 

[bluedroog]

I can't speak for all examples but in my experience an AV amp just isn't the same as a dedicated stereo amp, though I haven't really botherd with AV amps in recent years, that said it tends to be the features that change than the fundimentals.

I used an Arcam Alpha 8 in my first system (about £350 if I recall) and then swappped for a Denon AVR 3805 (£1,000) which I used for AV and music, after a few years I swithced back and the imporvment was clear.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Oh, this time of the night you want to come at me like that?.....ok (typed in a style of a poor impersonation of Robert diNero from raging bull)

How do you connect your PC to your amp?

Is it via 3mm Jack to stereo rca lead into analog?

Not a soft user myself.

What's the quality like?

That said the other options are a bonus. But that said again - while the paper spec on most average AVamps are into 2 channels they have enough kick to drive 5 full range speakers plus a Sub to good levels.

You pick your average action flick and these amps can and do have sustained power output.

It's all in the setup.

But it's just a point of view, from another angle is all.....

Without a separate dac...?

Which stereo amp has HDMI ,WiFi & bluetooth built in?

(HDMI is very rarely spoken of for music - but it goes upto DTS -hd master spec. That means something right?)

Anyway..... With regard output to buck.... Please do tell I must have missed the review...... ;-)

Buying a AV receiver could make very good sense.

Features you don't need.....hmmm.

WiFi, Bluetooth, digital inputs, coax, optical, HDMI - if you want to stream music via a lap top, PC, etc built in DAC, USB ( you may need to check compatibility with your digital devices) and a SUB out if you do decide to go that way.

Sound will not be compromised compared to comparable stereo amps - regardless of what some naysayers may say.

While they don't go 'loud' as earlier as your standard budget amp (they are generally better attenuated) - with a little time and care taken to set the thing up it will be all you need.

If you do audition try a few in your price range.

But you can do most of those with a hifi amp anyway?

?

You dont need a separate dac, how do you think computers play digital music? I streamed spotify from my pc to an old Arcam amp. As for wifi often does not work, but you can buy various devices to do that if you want. As HDMI doubt most people need it. AVR have much higher distortion and there power ratings are for 2 channels driven. The Marantz 6005 has a DAC anyway.

 

[steve_1979]

How do you connect your PC to your amp?

Is it via 3mm Jack to stereo rca lead into analog?

Not a soft user myself.

What's the quality like?

IME the sound quality from the analogue output of a computer can vary considerably. Apple Mac's are generally very good and most cheap PC's are pretty bad. Some PC's though, especially if they have a good quality motherboard or sound card can sound totally transparent and will have sound quality that's identical to the best hifi DAC's available. YMMV.

The analogue out from my own computer (a 4 year old mid/high range gaming PC) which uses a reasonably good quality Asus motherboard sounds identical to a high end hifi DAC. The only audiable difference that I can tell is that it has a much louder noise floor, although in practice this is only really noticable during the silences in between tracks.

 

[Esra]

An AVR could be perfectly good depending on the rest of your system.If you have good revealing speakers i would prefer a dedicated stereo amp which is up to them but these are often not being budget too.

With most budget speakers say up to a price 600-800 an AVR is often good enough providing more options,more power and room correction which results at least in same if not better performance as with a dedicated budget stereo amp at the same price.

 

[bigboss]

Given the OP's requirements, and dedicated stereo amplifier makes more sense. No point in spending on additional components you don't need.

I was part of a Big Question feature on What Hi Fi magazine 4 years ago where we compared a budget stereo amplifier to 3 different AV receivers at different price points, with the most expensive AVR at 6 times the price of the stereo amplifier. We didn't know which amp was playing. We didn't even know what we're comparing. We were just told to listen to different music pieces in system A, B, C and D, and just comment on which sounds better. We could appreciate the difference and the budget stereo amplifier sounded more effortless and superior to all the AV receivers.

 

[Esra]

You should compare e.x. a Yamaha RXV 677 with the Marantz 6005.The OP compares with an AVR nearly half the price.In that case the Marantz should be the better choice of course.

I heavily doubt (and know) a 6005 sounds superior to say a Yamaha 3040 (just 4x price) connected to a budget speaker like the OP thinks about.

 

[bigboss]

You should compare e.x. a Yamaha RXV 677 with the Marantz 6005.The OP compares with an AVR nearly half the price.In that case the Marantz should be the better choice of course.

 I heavily doubt (and know) a 6005 sounds superior to say a Yamaha 3040 (just 4x price) connected to a budget speaker like the OP thinks about.

?

 

I have no doubt and I don't need to guess. We compared a budget Rotel with Denon and flagship Sony AV receivers.

 

[bigboss]

The Rotel RA-04SE was tested against the Denon 1910, Denon 2310 & Sony STR-DA5400ES.

 

[Esra]

Best is OP will try himself and decide.You can make an AVR sound really bad if not properly set up ;-)It is not enough just to press "pure direct" button in order to make a 1:1 comparison.

 

[rainsoothe]

OP: The Marantz for sure. But try to audition it with speakers before you buy - and add Dali Zensor 1 at least (or Zensor 3 if you can).

 

[drummerman]

Seriously leeps I use to think the sameway.

For years I have used a Yamaha ax-620, £500 when New - for stereo, I was happy but thought I could do better. Went to upgrade looking at the stereo amps in the£500 to a grand window I swear the myth these stereo amps sound better was blown clean out the door. These were home demos too.....

The stereo amps delivered all at around 9o'clock and sounded loud but then struggled to control the speakers beyond that. (Mission 782se)

I tell you, have a look around the forum at sigs a take note of all the unhappy stereo amp owners looking for solutions there is a reason.

Trust me a well sorted av receiver will deliver - with a psu on paper able to supply enough juice for a total 450-500watt output into full range speakers they'll drive most speakers no problem in stereo.

Just be willing to dig round in the menus (may require a tv)

Buying a AV receiver could make very good sense.

Features you don't need.....hmmm.

WiFi, Bluetooth, digital inputs, coax, optical, HDMI - if you want to stream music via a lap top, PC, etc built in DAC, USB ( you may need to check compatibility with your digital devices) and a SUB out if you do decide to go that way.

Sound will not be compromised compared to comparable stereo amps - regardless of what some naysayers may say.

While they don't go 'loud' as earlier as your standard budget amp (they are generally better attenuated) - with a little time and care taken to set the thing up it will be all you need.

If you do audition try a few in your price range.

Sorry but I have to disagree with this one and I speak as someone who uses an AVR for stereo. The further you go up the AVR price range, the gap in quality does decrease between AVR's and stereo amps (IMO), but if my price range was at the budget end (£300 to £500), I'd personally go for a stereo amp every time. You can get some very well-performing musical amps at that price, but I wouldn't fancy a cheap AVR for music. If you really had to, I'd look for a model that was a year or two old and originally much more expensive. That's one good thing about AVR's - they're value drops much more quickly than most stereo amps.

The original RRP on my AVR was £800, but I bought it for £500 and it's probably worth half that now.

I agree with Leeps on this one (though broadly with you too Thompsonuxb).

AVR can be fantastic value compared to stereo amplifiers. Economy of scale comes clearly into this somewhere, these big companys having the clout smaller specialists can only dream of.

However, with AVR's I think the ball starts rolling at around £1000. Below that many have relatively weedy transformers and small supply reservoirs.

Luckily, it doesn't matter whether this £1k (or more) AVR is this years model or 5 years old, it seems that this is the price range when power supplies/components get 'serious' and more capable.

To put this into perspective, I use a full cyrus system in one room and a system based on the Sony STR DB930 in another. - Whilst the 930 retailed below £1000 it was a show case product for Sony, made to highlight what can be done and many would say it was one of the best, perhaps the best AVR Sony ever made when used in stereo. - Long story short, it is full of good engineering, highest quality components and a beefy power supply sadly lacking in many AVR's today. - It sounds glorious.

My advise would be, if you decide to go for an AVR because of the useful facilities, to look for a heavily discounted model of a year, two or three ago which originally cost over £1000 or thereabouts and pay attention to the power supply rather than decoding facilities.

Other than that, there are some very good stereo amplifiers out there these days which offer built in DAC's, streaming etc.

regards

 

[bigboss]

Best is OP will try himself and decide.You can make an AVR sound really bad if not properly set up ;-)It is not enough just to press "pure direct" button in order to make a 1:1 comparison.

The event was set up by What Hi Fi experts in a proper acoustically treated demo room.

 

[Esra]

Best is OP will try himself and decide.You can make an AVR sound really bad if not properly set up ;-)It is not enough just to press "pure direct" button in order to make a 1:1 comparison.

The event was set up by What Hi Fi experts in a proper acoustically treated demo room.

Which speakers?

 

[bigboss]

I can't remember the speakers as it was over 4 years ago, but they were neutral. I'll check the mag at home and get back.

 

[The_Lhc]

To put this into perspective, I use a full cyrus system in one room and a system based on the Sony STR DB930 in another. - Whilst the 930 retailed below £1000

I should say so, I paid £300 for mine, it was discounted (the 940 had just come out and it may have been the display model, I can't remember) but not to that degree. I'm still using it, only amp I've ever owned.

it was a show case product for Sony, made to highlight what can be done and many would say it was one of the best, perhaps the best AVR Sony ever made when used in stereo. - Long story short, it is full of good engineering, highest quality components and a beefy power supply sadly lacking in many AVR's today. - It sounds glorious.

I've certainly never felt the need to upgrade, it has 5.1 channel analogue inputs, so I just use the multi-channel outputs from my BDP to get DTS-HD Master audio. I'd be more likely to change my speakers before I change the amp I think.