AVI DM5

[Alberich]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti  AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

It's a conflict intentionally created by AVI to stir things up and generate a consistent stream of free advertising and scrutiny of their products.
Mostly aimed at general forum lurkers.

It leaves critics of the brand inbetween a rock and hard place because naturally they will counter argue some of the ludicrous statements being made by AVI, in doing so falling into their trap and fueling further endless discussion / debate about AVI speakers.

Cynical but genius.

 

[Alberich]

Question to those that have heard both the DM5's and DM10's - As far as I'm aware the 5's have built in class D amplification and the 10's class A/B, - Size apart, any discernible difference in presentation as a result ?

I own both the DM10 and DM5. They're both similar in presentation and in the overall character of the sound.

Once I placed the DM5s on top of the DM10s and played music while doing instantanious A/B switches between them. In such a comparison the DM10s are very obviously much better in every way. They're clearer, have a sharper stereo image, go louder and have more powerful and tighter sounding bass.

However, with prolonged listening sessions it was all to easy to forget which pair were being listened to. With general music listening they seem very similar and on the occasions that I forgot which ones were playing it was actually very hard to tell them apart. That is until I did an A/B switch then it suddenly became obvious which ones were which.

Basically they sound very similar even though the DM10s are quite a lot better in every way (I know that's seems like an oxymoron but it's true).

 

Steve generally in a passive system, would you normally detect presentation differences between class D and A/B amplification?

 

[steve_1979]

Steve generally in a passive system, would you normally detect presentation differences between class D and A/B amplification?

There are differences between the DM5 and DM10. But how much of this is due to the amplifier and how much is due to the drivers and enclosure I couldn't say for certain. My guess is that the differences are mostly due to the drivers and enclosure though.

 

[spiny norman]

Once I placed the DM5s on top of the DM10s and played music while doing instantanious A/B switches between them. In such a comparison the DM10s are very obviously much better in every way. They're clearer, have a sharper stereo image, go louder and have more powerful and tighter sounding bass.

Hardly surprising: used on top of the speakerettes, the speakerettettes would hardly have been ideally positioned.

 

[spiny norman]

Cynical but genius.

Agreed on the cynical: the 'counter-culture' thing, about standing out from the crowd or not following the herd, is a classic old-school marketing tactic. Strangely dismissed when the company in question becomes a huge grasping monster with the worth of a decent African nation, not that that is ever likely to trouble AVI, however much some there would seem to want to align themselves with Apple's success.

 

[shadders]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

It's a conflict intentionally created by AVI to stir things up and generate a consistent stream of free advertising and scrutiny of their products. Mostly aimed at general forum lurkers.

It leaves critics of the brand inbetween a rock and hard place because naturally they will counter argue some of the ludicrous statements being made by AVI, in doing so falling into their trap and fueling further endless discussion / debate about AVI speakers.

Cynical but genius.

Hi,

To add to this, and as stated by others, one claim on their website is that the bass/mid range has a 250W amplifier. The industry standard is to quote RMS continuous power into an 8ohm load. If you examine an amplifier that is rated at 250W RMS continuous power, they will have multiple output transistor pairs and significant heat sinking capability. The AVI does not have this, and the 250W is a false claim. The 250W is most probably 10 cycles of a 1 kHz sinewave signal only, certainly not continuous. When challenged, some AVI owners are extremely defensive. Rather than the AVI owners accepting this, that they have been duped, they argue in defense of AVI to backup an AVI false claim.

Hence this is why they are annoying to others on the forum.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[ID.]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

It's a conflict intentionally created by AVI to stir things up and generate a consistent stream of free advertising and scrutiny of their products. Mostly aimed at general forum lurkers.

It leaves critics of the brand inbetween a rock and hard place because naturally they will counter argue some of the ludicrous statements being made by AVI, in doing so falling into their trap and fueling further endless discussion / debate about AVI speakers.

Cynical but genius.

Hi,

To add to this, and as stated by others, one claim on their website is that the bass/mid range has a 250W amplifier. The industry standard is to quote RMS continuous power into an 8ohm load. If you examine an amplifier that is rated at 250W RMS continuous power, they will have multiple output transistor pairs and significant heat sinking capability. The AVI does not have this, and the 250W is a false claim. The 250W is most probably 10 cycles of a 1 kHz sinewave signal only, certainly not continuous. When challenged, some AVI owners are extremely defensive. Rather than the AVI owners accepting this, that they have been duped, they argue in defense of AVI to backup an AVI false claim.

Hence this is why they are annoying to others on the forum.

Regards,

Shadders.

They're not the only ones that are annoying

 

[steve_1979]

Question to those that have heard both the DM5's and DM10's - As far as I'm aware the 5's have built in class D amplification and the 10's class A/B, - Size apart, any discernible difference in presentation as a result ?

I own both the DM10 and DM5. They're both similar in presentation and in the overall character of the sound.

Once I placed the DM5s on top of the DM10s and played music while doing instantanious A/B switches between them. In such a comparison the DM10s are very obviously much better in every way. They're clearer, have a sharper stereo image, go louder and have more powerful and tighter sounding bass.

However, with prolonged listening sessions it was all to easy to forget which pair were being listened to. For general music listening they seem very similar and on the occasions that I forgot which ones were playing it was actually very hard to tell them apart. That is until I did an A/B switch then it suddenly became obvious which ones were which.

Basically they sound very similar even though the DM10s are quite a lot better in every way (I know that seems like an oxymoron but it's true).

 

[shadders]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

It's a conflict intentionally created by AVI to stir things up and generate a consistent stream of free advertising and scrutiny of their products. Mostly aimed at general forum lurkers.

It leaves critics of the brand inbetween a rock and hard place because naturally they will counter argue some of the ludicrous statements being made by AVI, in doing so falling into their trap and fueling further endless discussion / debate about AVI speakers.

Cynical but genius.

Hi,

To add to this, and as stated by others, one claim on their website is that the bass/mid range has a 250W amplifier. The industry standard is to quote RMS continuous power into an 8ohm load. If you examine an amplifier that is rated at 250W RMS continuous power, they will have multiple output transistor pairs and significant heat sinking capability. The AVI does not have this, and the 250W is a false claim. The 250W is most probably 10 cycles of a 1 kHz sinewave signal only, certainly not continuous. When challenged, some AVI owners are extremely defensive. Rather than the AVI owners accepting this, that they have been duped, they argue in defense of AVI to backup an AVI false claim.

Hence this is why they are annoying to others on the forum.

Regards,

Shadders.

They're not the only ones that are annoying

Hi,

Can you expand on that please.......

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Pedro2]

I bought a used pair of the last version of the 9 AVI ADM9RS for my mum @£800 I think they were £1299 new. For the price bought new you would have a job matching ther SQ given the spec including a DAC,

Were they the best sounding system I heard? No, lacked bass definition control for me, but you would would have to spend alot more with traditional brands to get a simular sound. Factor in you already own an amp, a pair of speakers, DAC etc plus you enjoy building a sytem and improving it over time when budget allows , they are not for everbody. Simple.

Hi Colin,

Followed this and similar threads with interest over the past few weeks.

Question is, as a very happy owner of one of your excellent Nord amps, are you tempted to build an active speaker incorporating some form of Hypex amplification?

 

[Alberich]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti  AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

It's a conflict intentionally created by AVI to stir things up and generate a consistent stream of free advertising and scrutiny of their products. Mostly aimed at general forum lurkers.

It leaves critics of the brand inbetween a rock and hard place because naturally they will counter argue some of the ludicrous statements being made by AVI, in doing so falling into their trap and fueling further endless discussion / debate about AVI speakers.

Cynical but genius.

Hi,

To add to this, and as stated by others, one claim on their website is that the bass/mid range has a 250W amplifier. The industry standard is to quote RMS continuous power into an 8ohm load. If you examine an amplifier that is rated at 250W RMS continuous power, they will have multiple output transistor pairs and significant heat sinking capability. The AVI does not have this, and the 250W is a false claim. The 250W is most probably 10 cycles of a 1 kHz sinewave signal only, certainly not continuous. When challenged,  some AVI owners are extremely defensive. Rather than the AVI owners accepting this, that they have been duped, they argue in defense of AVI to backup an AVI false claim.

Hence this is why they are annoying to others on the forum.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

They're not the only ones that are annoying  

As an impartial observer on the AVI conflict the individuals I find most curious are not the owners of their speakers but the AVI critics whose zealous criticism has reached levels of obsession.
Most of the praise coming from the owners of the speakers stems from genuine positive experience that they feel the urge to communicate, naturally.

As for the ludicrous and dishonest claims from AVI themselves, why not just see it for what it is - marketing BS - and have the confidence that consumers see it for what it is. Why continuously fan the flames and in doing so help sustain the attention on AVI.
As we all know there's no such thing as bad publicity.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Hi Colin,

Followed this and similar threads with interest over the past few weeks.

Question is, as a very happy owner of one of your excellent Nord amps, are you tempted to build an active speaker incorporating some form of Hypex amplification?

Simple answer No! Everybody seems to think they can slap a few drivers in a box, add amps and a DSP/active crossover and they will have a good pair of speakers, I dont believe so. Its just people seem to think its easy given the DSP. Why dont they think they can design a passive X Over? Ivan rekons there are only about 10 designers in the UK that can design good crossovers.

Ivan's IPL speakers with a Nord amp will run rings around a pair of AVI's. An Abrahamsen driving a pair of my tiny IPL M4M outperforms my mums AVI DM9RS. But even they as a pair cost the same as a new pair of AVI DM10 and you dont get a DAC.

 

[thewinelake.]

I would love to hear that comparison!

 

[lpv]

As an impartial observer on the AVI conflict the individuals I find most curious are not the owners of their speakers but the AVI critics whose zealous criticism has reached levels of obsession. Most of the praise coming from the owners of the speakers stems from genuine positive experience that they feel the urge to communicate, naturally.

As for the ludicrous and dishonest claims from AVI themselves, why not just see it for what it is - marketing BS - and have the confidence that consumers see it for what it is. Why continuously fan the flames and in doing so help sustain the attention on AVI. As we all know there's no such thing as bad publicity.

In the last few days I've exchanged some emails with dynaudio, pmc, event, atc and avi regarding the way they spec their monitors... if you check similar size two way active desings ( even opal, atc scm 20asl pro v2, pmc twotwo 6, dynaudio lud 7, avi dm10) you'll see that mid/bass in all of them is capable of roughly 500W peaks and DM10s mid/bass is spec at half peak.

 

[shadders]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

It's a conflict intentionally created by AVI to stir things up and generate a consistent stream of free advertising and scrutiny of their products. Mostly aimed at general forum lurkers.

It leaves critics of the brand inbetween a rock and hard place because naturally they will counter argue some of the ludicrous statements being made by AVI, in doing so falling into their trap and fueling further endless discussion / debate about AVI speakers.

Cynical but genius.

Hi,

To add to this, and as stated by others, one claim on their website is that the bass/mid range has a 250W amplifier. The industry standard is to quote RMS continuous power into an 8ohm load. If you examine an amplifier that is rated at 250W RMS continuous power, they will have multiple output transistor pairs and significant heat sinking capability. The AVI does not have this, and the 250W is a false claim. The 250W is most probably 10 cycles of a 1 kHz sinewave signal only, certainly not continuous. When challenged, some AVI owners are extremely defensive. Rather than the AVI owners accepting this, that they have been duped, they argue in defense of AVI to backup an AVI false claim.

Hence this is why they are annoying to others on the forum.

Regards,

Shadders.

They're not the only ones that are annoying

As an impartial observer on the AVI conflict the individuals I find most curious are not the owners of their speakers but the AVI critics whose zealous criticism has reached levels of obsession. Most of the praise coming from the owners of the speakers stems from genuine positive experience that they feel the urge to communicate, naturally.

As for the ludicrous and dishonest claims from AVI themselves, why not just see it for what it is - marketing BS - and have the confidence that consumers see it for what it is. Why continuously fan the flames and in doing so help sustain the attention on AVI. As we all know there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Hi,

If you download the user instructions, the document specifies the system capabilities, in the section Specifications. As such, this is not marketing, it is the stated technical capability. Therefore, their specification does not meet the industry standard (which is continuous power into an 8ohm resistive load), which then means their specifications are false. Had they stated that this is peak power into a 4ohm load for a burst of 10ms sine wave, this would have been acceptable.

The problem arises where AVI owners claim that passive speakers are inferior, based on the FALSE specifications by AVI which said AVI owners use to back up their claims. This is only one example.

Where statements are made which allude to be scientific fact, then this MUST be challenged. Else people visitng this forum will be duped.

If one hears the speakers and they are to your preference, then this is a subjective experience, which the AVI owners are more than rightly allowed to state, but NOT when it is based on the false claims to back up what they are hearing.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Pedro2]

Hi Colin,

Followed this and similar threads with interest over the past few weeks.

Question is, as a very happy owner of one of your excellent Nord amps, are you tempted to build an active speaker incorporating some form of Hypex amplification?

Simple answer No! Everybody seems to think they can slap a few drivers in a box, add amps and a DSP/active crossover and they will have a good pair of speakers, I dont believe so. Its just people seem to think its easy given the DSP. Why dont they think they can design a passive X Over? Ivan rekons there are only about 10 designers in the UK that can design good crossovers.

Ivan's IPL speakers with a Nord amp will run rings around a pair of AVI's. An Abrahamsen driving a pair of my tiny IPL M4M outperforms my mums AVI DM9RS. But even they as a pair cost the same as a new pair of AVI DM10 and you dont get a DAC.

Ok. Point taken and thanks for the straight answer. Still worth asking the question though!

 

[Alberich]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti  AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

It's a conflict intentionally created by AVI to stir things up and generate a consistent stream of free advertising and scrutiny of their products. Mostly aimed at general forum lurkers.

It leaves critics of the brand inbetween a rock and hard place because naturally they will counter argue some of the ludicrous statements being made by AVI, in doing so falling into their trap and fueling further endless discussion / debate about AVI speakers.

Cynical but genius.

Hi,

To add to this, and as stated by others, one claim on their website is that the bass/mid range has a 250W amplifier. The industry standard is to quote RMS continuous power into an 8ohm load. If you examine an amplifier that is rated at 250W RMS continuous power, they will have multiple output transistor pairs and significant heat sinking capability. The AVI does not have this, and the 250W is a false claim. The 250W is most probably 10 cycles of a 1 kHz sinewave signal only, certainly not continuous. When challenged,  some AVI owners are extremely defensive. Rather than the AVI owners accepting this, that they have been duped, they argue in defense of AVI to backup an AVI false claim.

Hence this is why they are annoying to others on the forum.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

They're not the only ones that are annoying  

As an impartial observer on the AVI conflict the individuals I find most curious are not the owners of their speakers but the AVI critics whose zealous criticism has reached levels of obsession. Most of the praise coming from the owners of the speakers stems from genuine positive experience that they feel the urge to communicate, naturally.

As for the ludicrous and dishonest claims from AVI themselves, why not just see it for what it is - marketing BS - and have the confidence that consumers see it for what it is. Why continuously fan the flames and in doing so help sustain the attention on AVI. As we all know there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Hi,

If you download the user instructions,  the document specifies the system capabilities, in the section Specifications. As such, this is not marketing,  it is the stated technical capability. Therefore, their specification does not meet the industry standard (which is continuous power into an 8ohm resistive load), which then means their specifications are false. Had they stated that this is peak power into a 4ohm load for a burst of 10ms sine wave, this would have been acceptable.

The problem arises where AVI owners claim that passive speakers are inferior, based on the FALSE specifications by AVI which said AVI owners use to back up their claims. This is only one example.

Where statements are made which allude to be scientific fact, then this MUST be challenged. Else people visitng this forum will be duped.

If one hears the speakers and they are to your preference, then this is a subjective experience, which the AVI owners are more than rightly allowed to state, but NOT when it is based on the false claims to back up what they are hearing.

Regards,

Shadders.

Shadders, I agree with you, you are absolutely correct in that regard. If AVI's specifications appear to be dubious and misleading to general consumers then they should be absolutely challenged.

However it does come across as a bit of a witch hunt
( I'm not directing that at you specifically ) for the reasons plenty of other companies when releasing specs for their active range fail to comply to the industry standard of description.
For instance Dynaudio and ATC, just to name two, when releasing specs for their active speakers fail to inform the general consumer whether the built in amplifier output is into 8 or for 4ohms or whether it's continuous or peak rating.
I myself dont believe for a second that the DM10's have a continuous output of 250W LF and 75w HF as AVI are clearly implying.
However AVI are doing no different than a lot of other companies were specs are concerned.
I'm not condoning it in any way, i just find a lot of the criticism thrown at AVI to be self motivated and for different reasons other than spec transparency.

 

[shadders]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

It's a conflict intentionally created by AVI to stir things up and generate a consistent stream of free advertising and scrutiny of their products. Mostly aimed at general forum lurkers.

It leaves critics of the brand inbetween a rock and hard place because naturally they will counter argue some of the ludicrous statements being made by AVI, in doing so falling into their trap and fueling further endless discussion / debate about AVI speakers.

Cynical but genius.

Hi,

To add to this, and as stated by others, one claim on their website is that the bass/mid range has a 250W amplifier. The industry standard is to quote RMS continuous power into an 8ohm load. If you examine an amplifier that is rated at 250W RMS continuous power, they will have multiple output transistor pairs and significant heat sinking capability. The AVI does not have this, and the 250W is a false claim. The 250W is most probably 10 cycles of a 1 kHz sinewave signal only, certainly not continuous. When challenged, some AVI owners are extremely defensive. Rather than the AVI owners accepting this, that they have been duped, they argue in defense of AVI to backup an AVI false claim.

Hence this is why they are annoying to others on the forum.

Regards,

Shadders.

They're not the only ones that are annoying

As an impartial observer on the AVI conflict the individuals I find most curious are not the owners of their speakers but the AVI critics whose zealous criticism has reached levels of obsession. Most of the praise coming from the owners of the speakers stems from genuine positive experience that they feel the urge to communicate, naturally.

As for the ludicrous and dishonest claims from AVI themselves, why not just see it for what it is - marketing BS - and have the confidence that consumers see it for what it is. Why continuously fan the flames and in doing so help sustain the attention on AVI. As we all know there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Hi,

If you download the user instructions, the document specifies the system capabilities, in the section Specifications. As such, this is not marketing, it is the stated technical capability. Therefore, their specification does not meet the industry standard (which is continuous power into an 8ohm resistive load), which then means their specifications are false. Had they stated that this is peak power into a 4ohm load for a burst of 10ms sine wave, this would have been acceptable.

The problem arises where AVI owners claim that passive speakers are inferior, based on the FALSE specifications by AVI which said AVI owners use to back up their claims. This is only one example.

Where statements are made which allude to be scientific fact, then this MUST be challenged. Else people visitng this forum will be duped.

If one hears the speakers and they are to your preference, then this is a subjective experience, which the AVI owners are more than rightly allowed to state, but NOT when it is based on the false claims to back up what they are hearing.

Regards,

Shadders.

Shadders, I agree with you, you are absolutely correct in that regard. If AVI's specifications appear to be dubious and misleading to general consumers then they should be absolutely challenged.

However it does come across as a bit of a witch hunt ( I'm not directing that at you specifically ) for the reasons plenty of other companies when releasing specs for their active range fail to comply to the industry standard of description. For instance Dynaudio and ATC, just to name two, when releasing specs for their active speakers fail to inform the general consumer whether the built in amplifier output is into 8 or for 4ohms or whether it's continuous or peak rating. I myself dont believe for a second that the DM10's have a continuous output of 250W LF and 75w HF as AVI are clearly implying. However AVI are doing no different than a lot of other companies were specs are concerned. I'm not condoning it in any way, i just find a lot of the criticism thrown at AVI to be self motivated and for different reasons other than spec transparency.

Hi,

I agree that the recent posts may seem to be a witch hunt. I have only asked questions, or challenged the data, for the sake of accuracy only.

If ATC or other had posted on this forum, and the owners of the equipment were stating the non standard meaningless data to infer passive designs are inferior, then they too will have had the same response.

Although the challenges may appear terse, they are justified.

If these "facts" are used to sway people into buying them by people on this forum who don't truly understand the technical aspects, then this is not acceptable behaviour.

In Hifi News the review of the Kef Reference 1 states that "giving a sonic picture that is not just three-dimensional, but near holographic". These speakers are small two designs as per the DM10, and are passive. The people stating that the DM10 are offer similar presentation to the Kef (although they don't know about the Kef's), may just like the small speaker experience. I have 2 sets of small speakers and they too are very good at stereo imaging.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[hg]

In Hifi News the review of the Kef Reference 1 states that "giving a sonic picture that is not just three-dimensional, but near holographic". These speakers are small two designs as per the DM10, and are passive. The people stating that the DM10 are offer similar presentation to the Kef (although they don't know about the Kef's), may just like the small speaker experience. I have 2 sets of small speakers and they too are very good at stereo imaging.

The KEFs are 3 ways with a coaxial tweeter and midrange. They do not suffer from the uneven off-axis response of the DM10 and so in a room can be expected to sound significantly different. There may well be audible on-axis differences as well. I cannot see why people might expect them to sound similar.

 

[The Mad One]

My previous set-ups was Amps: Abrahamsen v2.0up Naim pre/power,Roksan caspian amps, Mojo dac and Arcam ir dac,and several speakers PMC.22,Neat Motive 2,Kef LS50 and Atc scm 11s.

And these little beuties blows them all yes all out the water with the exception of the ATC SCM 11 Original/Roksan kandy k2 combo. which i had about 5 years ago and i suppose i kinda miss this combo a lot before that is i heard the DM5's there just soo good it puts this stupid grin on face everytime i listen to my music.

My room size is 16 x11 feet and 8 feet high..

Hope this helps..

 

[shadders]

In Hifi News the review of the Kef Reference 1 states that "giving a sonic picture that is not just three-dimensional, but near holographic". These speakers are small two designs as per the DM10, and are passive. The people stating that the DM10 are offer similar presentation to the Kef (although they don't know about the Kef's), may just like the small speaker experience. I have 2 sets of small speakers and they too are very good at stereo imaging.

The KEFs are 3 ways with a coaxial tweeter and midrange. They do not suffer from the uneven off-axis response of the DM10 and so in a room can be expected to sound significantly different. There may well be audible on-axis differences as well. I cannot see why people might expect them to sound similar.

Hi,

Apologies, I only read the sound quality section.

I do not expect both to sound the same, my statement is a general one, in that small speakers have a similar characteristics - lean bass, good stereo imaging, as example, both my pairs have these characteristics. I know that this is not all speakers, but perhaps the people who like the AVI speakers like the general characteristics of most small speakers.

I don't know about the speaker characteristics with regards to dispersion of sound etc, from the cone, but I am aware of amplifier design and filter designs (to a lesser extent).

I have seen the discussions on the speaker driver performance, but I can only really comment on the electronics. I can see the lack of clarity on the electrical side of the discussion, where when this is used by posters on the forum to backup their claims for AVI speakers, this should be challenged.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[drummerman]

My previous set-ups was Amps: Abrahamsen v2.0up Naim pre/power,Roksan caspian amps, Mojo dac and Arcam ir dac,and several speakers PMC.22,Neat Motive 2,Kef LS50 and Atc scm 11s.

And these little beuties blows them all yes all out the water with the exception of the ATC SCM 11 Original/Roksan kandy k2 combo. which i had about 5 years ago and i suppose i kinda miss this combo a lot before that is i heard the DM5's there just soo good it puts this stupid grin on face everytime i listen to my music.

My room size is 16 x11 feet and 8 feet high..

Hope this helps..

Thanks. Interesting.

 

[The Mad One]

Shadders

I just happen to look at my pc and read your recent post....

God is it just me or is it that everything and i mean everything you post is soooooo boring your either analizing or reading really boring spec papers on speakers more so AVIs why dont you just listen to a pair of them and THEN critisise all you want.

Ive got to ask whats your hifi set-up.

Go on tell us is it an old Matsui from dixons i bet it is init..lol

 

[drummerman]

I certainly wouldn't mind to listen to them but I would have to sell my cyrus system to finance them, not something I'd look forward too. Certainly not without listening to them first.

I'd then would have to source a decent Pre-amp/DAC/Headphone amp with analogue in for my Vinyl.

One good thing is I still have a small, sealed sub which would probably complement them.

Is the dealer network expanding in the UK?

 

[luckylion100]

of hearing the DM5's. I took a punt with the DM10's after much deliberation (see my thread elsewhere, sadly it descended into the normal pro/anti AVI nonsense).

But if the DM5's are anything like their big brothers I think they would pleasantly surprise most of the knockers on here, even though they'd probably not want to admit it.

Just to be clear, I'm not joining any gang, I'm very much my own man. But the fact remains the DM10's (in my case) are a revelation, easily out doing my previous set up. I do not regret letting my PMC Twenty 23's go and they were speakers I envisaged keeping for the duration of their 20 year guarantee. The anti AVI/Ashley sentiments expressed on this forum are nothing to do with me, they're from before my time and I'm playing catch up. My praise of these speakers is foremost based on the sound quality and improvement I've experienced. The VFM, the convenience and absence of dust gathering black boxes a further bonus. I clearly stated my reasons for going active and active doesn't just mean AVI, I could have easily gone to another brand. But I'm happy with my choice and sometimes I question the doubters, those intent in continually slagging anyone off that dares to suggest they're happy with an active based system. Why, jealously?

For me it's about enjoying the music and I've never enjoyed it as much. Seemingly this is now something of a meaningless statement for many on here, maybe those people need to reconnect...

Hi,

Some are pulling your leg. Others do want to challenge the basis for the scientific statements which support the design. There are no anti AVI people, just people being critical.

From my perspective, there does seem to be people who are perhaps over enthusiastic in telling others that non active systems are inferior.

I have some Dean Alto II speakers, sealed enclosure, two way, small bass/mid driver - purchased in the early 80's, and they still sound fantastic too. I think small speakers (my subjective opinion) do sound very good (I have another set - DIY). So maybe people are preferring the small box sound?

Regards,

Shadders.

Hi Shadders

For my part I have only attempted to convey my delight in the sound reproduced by the DM10's in my own room. Of course to my ears they are a vast improvement over 'my' previous passive systems. It's a very personal statement and not a sweeping or all encompassing comment. My feedback was only intended as an update to those that shared in my previous thread.

I can't comment on the technical merits or comparisons made, bold or perhaps misleading statements by any company's literature... I'll leave that to those qualifed and in the know.

As my late Grandfather used to say, 'You can't please all the people all the time' and these differences in taste and application make for interesting reading on here. Diversity is the staple diet for forums such as this..