At the Munich show I asked the Dynaudio rep why they are limited to 16.48 to which he answered that is is very challenging to implement a real-time wireless audio transfer but they are currently working on an HD version. So, hopefully, a 24/96 version will be out soon.
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Overdose
Well-known member
fr0g said:
Which won't happen unless the recording is of a live performance and that's a different thread entirely.
Overdose said:fr0g said:
Which won't happen unless the recording is of a live performance and that's a different thread entirely.
Well indeed. Although I said it because it will "never" happen anyway. There is "always" room for improvement.
Messiah
Well-known member
KennyDope said:
I cannot say if the latest version are worth the extra £200 (although I suspect they are!) but what I would say is don't be too hasty. Whilst they are superb speakers and I doubt you would be disappointed I think you have time to demo them first. With the new version out and the ADM40's I suspect this won't be the last pair of 9.1s you will see.
Also try not to be put off by all the usual uproar that threads on AVI create. Demo and decide for yourself.
It's cool to know that I'm not the only person considering getting either the XEO 3 or ADM9.
I'm sure either will be a good pair of speakers (depending on your tastes).
However, one debate brought up in this thread caught my attention: The ever-improving ADM9s.
If I'm not mistaken the ADM9 has been out for about 5 years and they've now reached the 4th version - ADM9, ADM9.1, ADM9T and now ADM9T2 (or whatever they will eventually call it). HiFi technology does not improve anywhere near that fast. Even Musical Fidelity at it worst wasn't changing products that quickly.
What I suspect is responsible for much of the claimed improvements in each version are the increases in price. Each model has seen an increase in price. From £1000 in the original all the way up to £1250 in the latest version. So they can afford to put in "better drivers" etc at the new price.
I'm sure either will be a good pair of speakers (depending on your tastes).
However, one debate brought up in this thread caught my attention: The ever-improving ADM9s.
If I'm not mistaken the ADM9 has been out for about 5 years and they've now reached the 4th version - ADM9, ADM9.1, ADM9T and now ADM9T2 (or whatever they will eventually call it). HiFi technology does not improve anywhere near that fast. Even Musical Fidelity at it worst wasn't changing products that quickly.
What I suspect is responsible for much of the claimed improvements in each version are the increases in price. Each model has seen an increase in price. From £1000 in the original all the way up to £1250 in the latest version. So they can afford to put in "better drivers" etc at the new price.
steve_1979 said:
Do you think the latest AVI's sound better overall than, for example: EV Sentry III's, Bozak Symphonys, EV Patrician 800's - all of which are 40 to 50 year old speaker designs? If they don't sound better it blows your analogy out of the water. If you do think the AVI's sound better I'd suggest we get together for a proper evaluation.
The PC that I've written this on is vastly better than the fastest super-computers of the 1960's and 1970's. The only thing that might be better on such a vintage computer compared to my PC is the keyboard. My PC keyboard is a bit cheap and plasticky and the letters are rubbing off on it. Vintage mainframe computer keyboards were more solidly constructed and the better ones had a better feel to them than my modern keyboard.
lindsayt said:
False logic again.
For a start, I'd wager the ADMs(+sub) were better than those old speakers (in terms of accuracy and lack of distortion), but that's another discussion.
How much did they cost?
And no, you can't compare it with computers in the way you have.They are in a whole field of their own due to the speed of change due to the (current) constant improvement in IC technology.
I would be surprised if speaker driver technology got more than 10% better every 2 years, and even that's pushing it. Amps and DACs have already pretty much plateaued.
If you want to compare with computers then you have to evaluate how fast computers improve in relation to speakers...So Moore's law says a doubling every 2/3 years.
So if a speaker from today is compared with a speaker from 50 years ago, you'd need to compare a computer from...
2^X=50
XLOG2=LOG50
X=LOG50/LOG2
5.6 years ago.
Or if you want to compare a computer from 50 years ago which would be , you must compare a speaker from... 181 years ago.
This is all complete nonsense of course as Moore's law has only been around for a few years and speaker tech probably doesn't increase at any similar fixed rate, either now or then.
*edit. Can't be ediTed to check my maths
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Ajani said:
To be fair the increase in price over that 5 year period is probably mostly accounted for by quickly rising costs. I've seen some incredible price increases in my industry in just the last two years because pretty much every part of the manufacturing and distribution process is more expensive than it was.
Also, to be fair, although developments in technology aren't that fast or dramatic, there are companies out there who are constantly developing drive units and if using a different, maybe more expensive, drive unit results in at least a decent improvement then it is worthwhile both for the manufacturer and for the customer.
I have no problems with AVI updating their products.
steve_1979
Well-known member
lindsayt said:
The original ADM's used the best drivers that AVI could find at the time. But over the years driver technology has gradually improved to the point that it's now possible for AVI to have a new and improved driver made for them that is better than the old one.
Computer and phone technology may evolve much quicker than speaker technology but speaker technology is still evolving and improving aswell.
chebby
Well-known member
lindsayt said:
I'd be interested in the result of such an evaluation. There must be someone with ADM9s living near Lindsay.
John Duncan
Well-known member
I have no problem with a manufacturer improving its product. I have plenty of other problems with what some manufacturers do, but that's not one of them.
BenLaw
Well-known member
steve_1979 said:
Im sure there has been an improvement in the driver being used, but I don't buy most of this argument. What appears to be being said is that the best possible driver was used previously. Now, technology has moved on and a new 'best' driver is a available which is being used. Is it really being claimed there were no better drivers 5 years ago, even if cost were no object? What is the supposed technological advance which has raised the bar for all speaker technology? Is it really being said that there is no better driver in the world now?
My scepticism is partly founded on the fact that ATC use proprietary drivers (not including tweeter until recently and still not on most models) and there's been no improvement, gradual or sudden, on their SLM drivers.
chebby
Well-known member
AVI used to source their ADM9 and 9.1 mid/bass drivers (and tweeters?) from Sinar Baja in Indonesia. (For cost and performance reasons presumably.) The same company used to make all their gloss finish cabinets too.
Not sure if that relationship still exists.
Maybe someone can update us with where the new ADM9's drivers are made. (I read here a while ago that the ADM40 tweeters are made by Scanspeak. Is that where the latest ADM9 tweeters are from?)
Not sure if that relationship still exists.
Maybe someone can update us with where the new ADM9's drivers are made. (I read here a while ago that the ADM40 tweeters are made by Scanspeak. Is that where the latest ADM9 tweeters are from?)
The_Lhc
Well-known member
chebby said:
If they're good enough for Sony's $27,000 speakers I expect they're good enough for AVI.
chebby
Well-known member
The_Lhc said:
I've no doubt.
I just like to keep up to date with who makes what for whom. (Sad like that.) No point to make.
chebby said:
Both ADM9 drive units were (and are, IIRC) sourced from Sinar Baja, both in the ADM40s are from Scanspeak, Illuminator bass unit 18WU/8741T00 and a D2905 tweeter.
I don't think tha even Ashley claimed the drivers in the ADM9s were the best in the world, just very good, especially for the money - just like the speakers really.
John Duncan
Well-known member
So there's 400 quid of the 3k asking price (and that's at retail), where does the rest come from? ;-)
John Duncan said:
Touch harsh John.
4 drivers, 4 HQ high power mono amplifiers, pre-amp, DAC, cabinet, veneer, packing material, electrical components and connectors.
Then you must factor in wages for everyone, building rental, taxes and hopefully still turn a profit.
Strikes me as pretty cheap.
I bet you'd struggle to find a DIY kit for less with all the same components.
John Duncan
Well-known member
fr0g said:
I like to think of it as 'facetious'.
And I admit that I miscounted drivers required by two...;-)
BenLaw
Well-known member
John Duncan
Well-known member
steve_1979
Well-known member
John Duncan said:
Well, I thought that your comment was funny anyway. That's what winking smilies are for.
fr0g said:
Don't forget the cost of a courier too.
BenLaw
Well-known member
BenLaw said:
I got it, although only because of comments David's made, having also been watching AVI forums. This whole rivalry and commenting about one forum on another is getting very tiresome.
John Duncan
Well-known member
BenLaw said:
I think you'll find I was referring to this post:
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/pathos-inpolremix-10-watt-amplifier
I do not know this other forum of which you speak.
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