Avantgarde Zero1 Pro: my new benchmark!

[DocG]

Ever since Ajani mentioned these speakers on the Active Speakers Club thread (quite a while ago), I've been waiting eagerly for the Zero1 to arrive in the shops. Meanwhile, an acquaintance with the (passive) bigger brothers, the Duo Grossos, had set my expectations even higher. So I was pretty excited, when I discovered a new shop, very nearby, which had the Zeros on demo. And off I went!

Now, the Zero1 is more than just a speaker. It's an active three way design, with a horn-loaded tweeter and midband, and a ported 30 cm bass woofer. Moreover, it acts as a (digital) preamp, with 2 x SPDIFs, 1 x Toslink, 1 x AES/EBU and 1 x async USB input. An analogue input is optional, and converts the signal to digital right away.

Digital processing through a 6 channel, 66-bit Floating Point Gated Array corrects the signal for phase shifts, while optional software for room adjustment is to be released later on. The Zero1 comes in two flavours: Pro or AV. The Pro-version has the tightest phase coherence, while the AV is best suited for use in a home cinema set-up.

The processed signal is then converted by 6 Burr & Brown DACs and fed to the amplifiers. For the bass a 400 W Hypex module (class D) is used, while for the high and mid freqs Avantgarde uses class AB amplification of its own design (a 'light' version of their XA power amp), which produces 50 W, with the first 3 W in pure class A. A mere 3 W might seem meagre, but the drivers' sensitivity of 104 dB means that you only need class AB from 110 dB upwards. In other words: not very often. IMO the main difference between this amp and a 50W pure class A amplifier (the use of which in the Zero1 was - wrongly - suggested in a recent review) will be in the heat and a huge electricity bill, not in the sound.

I had seen many pictures of the speakers, but when I saw them in the flesh, they were rather imposing, at 104 cm high and 49 cm wide. The finish (in matte black) is impeccable. The bass woofers' grilles are magnetically attached.

We listened to CDs, using a Rega Apollo, connected thru coax. I come to the point right away: this is as close to live music as I've ever heard! The sound is exceptionally cohesive, incredibly dynamic and detailed. Percussion is tight and fast. No hard edges, except where the music demands them. The bass is very fast, deep and textured. But the true forte of this system is the midband. It renders female voices in a sweet, natural, effortless way. Solo saxophone sounds equally impressive and real.

Drawbacks? Well, if you permit me an understatement: they don't discretely blend in with the decor. They are just too big and monolithic. So one will need to confront the significant others with their appearance!

Secondly, their impressive sound is the result of extensive signal processing, which takes time: 220 msec for the Pro-version. That makes them difficult to use for AV-purposes (lip sync issues); they won't blend in with a multiroom set-up either. Here the Zero1 AV is better suited. Its less tight phase correction needs less processing, thus limiting the delay to 60 msec.

The good news: in a personal communication, Avantgarde's Armin Krauss assured me that the AV-software will be available soon for Zero 1 Pro systems too. Switching between the two versions can then be done using a laptop, connected via USB: best of both worlds!

So yes, I have a new benchmark! This system stands a huge chance to make it to our future living room (if only my wife allows them in our house...).

 

[Sir Lemon]

Around 10.000 Euros.

Good read, DocG. Thanks!

 

[matt49]

Very interesting indeed. Is one permitted to ask how much they cost?

Presumably there's a remote control for source switching.

Thanks for the report!

Matt

EDIT I recall reading a very positive review of the Zero1 in a German hifi mag back in November.

 

[MattSPL]

Nice looking speakers

 

[DocG]

The Zero1 was anounced at about 9000 EUR (early 2013). The recommended retail price finally went up to 10600 EUR for the AV-version and 12000 EUR for the Pro-version. A lot of money, but of course you buy a complete system, with little to worry about once you got started. Bad news for the tinkerers: you only get a toggle switch for the bass (+/- 4 dB in 1 dB steps), and that's it.

As for the remote: it's a sturdy IR device, with knobs for on/off, volume up/down and source selection. Hard to explain the design of it, but a picture says more than a thousand words:

 

[MattSPL]

Not a bad price for a 3 way active speaker. They look very well made too.

 

[matt49]

Bad news for the tinkerers: you only get a toggle switch for the bass (+/- 4 dB in 1 dB steps), and that's it.

Presumably you'd do your room correction digitally before the signal reaches the speaker, no?

What does the DSP in the speaker do?

Matt

 

[DocG]

Bad news for the tinkerers: you only get a toggle switch for the bass (+/- 4 dB in 1 dB steps), and that's it.

Presumably you'd do your room correction digitally before the signal reaches the speaker, no?

What does the DSP in the speaker do?

Matt

The room correction will be done completely in the digital domain, definitely. But it has not been released yet. Avantgarde seem to take the time to get everything sorted before they release it. Apparrently, the 66-bits FPGA gives enormous possibilities, so much so that you can easily screw up the sound if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Which is why we have to wait ...

The DSP acts as an active crossover and corrects the phase issues. Avantgarde normally do this (phase issues, I mean) physically, through the relative position of the different drivers. Here the position of the drivers is dictated by the form of the cabinet (with the midrange driver quite far behind the tweeter and bassdriver), and the drivers are alligned digitally. Apparently, it takes quite some processing to do this right.

The result is spectacular anyway!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

nice write-up Doc. IMO such fully integrated digital systems as Avantgare Zero1 are the future of hi-fi. in fact this is already dominating product model on the budget, mass market end of scale. legacy hi-fi is just too conservative to adopt changes quickly. and there are still a lot of consumers believing that mi-and-matching between speakers, amps and sources is the best thing to do. I'm pretty much sure this Avangarde easily wipes the floor with similarly priced analog passive and active systems. I'm pretty much sure that in a matter of 5-10 years similar systems will be dominant on the hi-fi market. and mix-and-matched passive systems will be relegated to uber expensive cottage production catering for only few weirdos still willing to buy such products.

 

[Electro]

nice write-up Doc. IMO such fully integrated digital systems as Avantgare Zero1 are the future of hi-fi. in fact this is already dominating product model on the budget, mass market end of scale. legacy hi-fi is just too conservative to adopt changes quickly. and there are still a lot of consumers believing that mi-and-matching between speakers, amps and sources is the best thing to do. I'm pretty much sure this Avangarde easily wipes the floor with similarly priced analog passive and active systems. I'm pretty much sure that in a matter of 5-10 years similar systems will be dominant on the hi-fi market. and mix-and-matched passive systems will be relegated to uber expensive cottage production catering for only few weirdos still willing to buy such products.

Beardy weirdo's if you don't mind :shame: :

 

[WishTree]

nice write-up Doc. IMO such fully integrated digital systems as Avantgare Zero1 are the future of hi-fi. in fact this is already dominating product model on the budget, mass market end of scale. legacy hi-fi is just too conservative to adopt changes quickly. and there are still a lot of consumers believing that mi-and-matching between speakers, amps and sources is the best thing to do. I'm pretty much sure this Avangarde easily wipes the floor with similarly priced analog passive and active systems. I'm pretty much sure that in a matter of 5-10 years similar systems will be dominant on the hi-fi market. and mix-and-matched passive systems will be relegated to uber expensive cottage production catering for only few weirdos still willing to buy such products.

++1

I am currently in a state to start fresh! My start up place is Oppo BDP-105D with Beolab 9 and compared to that Avantgarde Zero 1 seems like a great alternative! I do not even want to consider any passive alternatives. I will start a thread soon seeking recommendations for a total new system for my 2014 set up.

 

[DocG]

I am currently in a state to start fresh! My start up place is Oppo BDP-105D with Beolab 9 and compared to that Avantgarde Zero 1 seems like a great alternative! I do not even want to consider any passive alternatives. I will start a thread soon seeking recommendations for a total new system for my 2014 set up.

Hi Wishtree, that very combination still figures on my shortlist. To me, Oppo + B&O is the most rational combo: excellent transport + DAC + active, full-range speakers, with a very broad (though less precise) sweetspot: cut out for a living room set-up! But if I'm honest: the BeoLabs didn't 'touch' me; I couldn't connect with the music emotionally... And isn't that what it's all about? But the Zeros, oh my! :dance:

 

[DocG]

nice write-up Doc. IMO such fully integrated digital systems as Avantgare Zero1 are the future of hi-fi. in fact this is already dominating product model on the budget, mass market end of scale. legacy hi-fi is just too conservative to adopt changes quickly. and there are still a lot of consumers believing that mi-and-matching between speakers, amps and sources is the best thing to do. I'm pretty much sure this Avangarde easily wipes the floor with similarly priced analog passive and active systems. I'm pretty much sure that in a matter of 5-10 years similar systems will be dominant on the hi-fi market. and mix-and-matched passive systems will be relegated to uber expensive cottage production catering for only few weirdos still willing to buy such products.

Hey Oldric, exciting times!

However the dealer is convinced that the passive Avantgardes are even more refined than the Zeros, and now he's trying to talk me into a demo of the Zeros versus Devialet + AG Uno Fino horns... I'm reluctant to take the offer, I mean: just imagine it is better, than it'll be 50% more expensive too!

And that same dealer also stocks AudioVector, and he will try to arrange a head-to-head: Devialet + (passive) Si1 versus the Si1 Discreet (= active version, driven by Opalum amplification). That could be interesting too!

As I said, exciting times...

 

[WishTree]

Hi Wishtree, that very combination still figures on my shortlist. To me, Oppo + B&O is the most rational combo: excellent transport + DAC + active, full-range speakers, with a very broad (though less precise) sweetspot: cut out for a living room set-up! But if I'm honest: the BeoLabs didn't 'touch' me; I couldn't connect with the music emotionally... And isn't that what it's all about? But the Zeros, oh my! :dance:

Hi Doc.. Great to read about all your auditions! I read the write up on the Beolab 5 though I am not too sure about remembering reading on the Beolab 9s. I have a feeling that fully active digital domain (source+DAC+pre-amp+power amp+active cross over+speakers) in one unit versus non digital active (source+DAC+pre-amp seperated from power-amp+active cross over+speakers) will still be different and offers a bit of flexibility with the later case. Especially the presentation and musicality. As of now, I am more convinced on the active cross over and tri-amplified speakers for their efficiencies / optimization of mating seperate amplifiers to seperate frequency spectrums for individual woofers & tweeters but did not really buy into the complete digital domain all-in-one speaker which need a digital input.

Lets see what I will end up once I start auditioning!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Hey Oldric, exciting times!

However the dealer is convinced that the passive Avantgardes are even more refined than the Zeros, and now he's trying to talk me into a demo of the Zeros versus Devialet + AG Uno Fino horns... I'm reluctant to take the offer, I mean: just imagine it is better, than it'll be 50% more expensive too!

And that same dealer also stocks AudioVector, and he will try to arrange a head-to-head: Devialet + (passive) Si1 versus the Si1 Discreet (= active version, driven by Opalum amplification). That could be interesting too!

As I said, exciting times...

it'll never hurt to try. the key is to remain as indifferent as possible. bias is a powerful and terrible thing when making a decision. and humans are sadly not free from it, despite what one might think of themselves.

EDIT: due to mine vested interest :shifty: I would be most interested in the comparison between passive and active Audiovectors...

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

As of now, I am more convinced on the active cross over and tri-amplified speakers for their efficiencies / optimization of mating seperate amplifiers to seperate frequency spectrums for individual woofers & tweeters but did not really buy into the complete digital domain all-in-one speaker which need a digital input.

Lets see what I will end up once I start auditioning!

I think you're mising the point here WishTree. active speaker is a step-up over passive speaker (IMO this statement only applies to speakers utilising dynamic drives and also somewhat to multiway magnetostats. electrostats work differently so won't benefit from going active. the only advantage with acive ESL is aesthetics - you won't have to suffer as much cable mess lying on the floor, provided you choose an amp to drive ESL wisely). and then digital active speaker is another step-up over analog active speaker. benefits of going digital with your active speaker entail for instance possibility to fine tune your xover more finely so that you get perfect in-phase correlation between the drivers. you gain full control over phase behaviour of your speaker sytem so you can design a speaker characterising with perfectly linear phase (no phase shift whatsoever) over entire audioband - AFAIK impossible with analog designs. haing your drivers' performance as a known you can fine tune their response as to reduce resonances and other non linear behaviour. on top of that if you opt for digital amplification you could entirely by-pass the need to use DACs. which is a good thing as D2A conversion brings in a lot of problems on their own... just a few examples.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

nice write-up Doc. IMO such fully integrated digital systems as Avantgare Zero1 are the future of hi-fi. in fact this is already dominating product model on the budget, mass market end of scale. legacy hi-fi is just too conservative to adopt changes quickly. and there are still a lot of consumers believing that mi-and-matching between speakers, amps and sources is the best thing to do. I'm pretty much sure this Avangarde easily wipes the floor with similarly priced analog passive and active systems. I'm pretty much sure that in a matter of 5-10 years similar systems will be dominant on the hi-fi market. and mix-and-matched passive systems will be relegated to uber expensive cottage production catering for only few weirdos still willing to buy such products.

Beardy weirdo's if you don't mind :shame: :

:rofl:

someone used that expression before. of that I'm sure. I can't remember who that was though :? . I bet someone from AVI brigade. maybe my using "weirdos" was a bit too hasty. should have used "enthusiasts" instead! but in the grand view of schemes difference between the first and the others is slim at best .

 

[WishTree]

and then digital active speaker is another step-up over analog active speaker. benefits of going digital with your active speaker entail for instance possibility to fine tune your xover more finely so that you get perfect in-phase correlation between the drivers. you gain full control over phase behaviour of your speaker sytem so you can design a speaker characterising with perfectly linear phase (no phase shift whatsoever) over entire audioband - AFAIK impossible with analog designs. haing your drivers' performance as a known you can fine tune their response as to reduce resonances and other non linear behaviour. on top of that if you opt for digital amplification you could entirely by-pass the need to use DACs. which is a good thing as D2A conversion brings in a lot of problems on their own... just a few examples.

This clearly shows how stuck I am with my thinking and not leaving the seperates history behind me! In my head, I am assuming that with an active speaker and a seperate DAC+Pre, I am still getting a bit of choice on the kind of presentation that I would like to achieve rather than being decided by the manufacturer of a fully digital speaker. Also, it lets me have it as part of an HT set up.

Though I have not heard the Beolab 9 or 5 yet, I read else where (or may be here) that 5 being digital active speaker, sounds more accurate but less musical than 9 (Might not be the exact words, but that is the jist).

Also, in the end it is willingness to dispose the kind of money relative to 9 or 5 (5 is for 14900 Pounds and 9 is for 6450 Pounds). I am assuming that at today's pricing full digital speakers are much more expensive than the active counterparts.

(BTW, I heard Beoplay A9 recently, and it is in a different league with bass integration and sound presentation. It beats the Zeppelin Air, that we have at home with out breaking a sweat but it also does exceedingly well than the other HiFi I have put together over years. I really can not imagine why would I need anything beyond that for any of my listening except that I want to have HT built into my HiFi set up. )

Doc, sorry to digress. I better start a thread seeking opinions!

 

[DocG]

and then digital active speaker is another step-up over analog active speaker. benefits of going digital with your active speaker entail for instance possibility to fine tune your xover more finely so that you get perfect in-phase correlation between the drivers. you gain full control over phase behaviour of your speaker sytem so you can design a speaker characterising with perfectly linear phase (no phase shift whatsoever) over entire audioband - AFAIK impossible with analog designs. haing your drivers' performance as a known you can fine tune their response as to reduce resonances and other non linear behaviour. on top of that if you opt for digital amplification you could entirely by-pass the need to use DACs. which is a good thing as D2A conversion brings in a lot of problems on their own... just a few examples.

This clearly shows how stuck I am with my thinking and not leaving the seperates history behind me! In my head, I am assuming that with an active speaker and a seperate DAC+Pre, I am still getting a bit of choice on the kind of presentation that I would like to achieve rather than being decided by the manufacturer of a fully digital speaker. Also, it lets me have it as part of an HT set up.

Though I have not heard the Beolab 9 or 5 yet, I read else where (or may be here) that 5 being digital active speaker, sounds more accurate but less musical than 9 (Might not be the exact words, but that is the jist).

Also, in the end it is willingness to dispose the kind of money relative to 9 or 5 (5 is for 14900 Pounds and 9 is for 6450 Pounds). I am assuming that at today's pricing full digital speakers are much more expensive than the active counterparts.

(BTW, I heard Beoplay A9 recently, and it is in a different league with bass integration and sound presentation. It beats the Zeppelin Air, that we have at home with out breaking a sweat but it also does exceedingly well than the other HiFi I have put together over years. I really can not imagine why would I need anything beyond that for any of my listening except that I want to have HT built into my HiFi set up. )

Doc, sorry to digress. I better start a thread seeking opinions!

The BeoLab9 only made it to the introduction of my BeoLab5 review IIRC. That's because I heard the 9 in the B&O shop, in a nasty environment (glass and plaster), with the speakers less than 1 metre apart, which made it hard to 'properly' describe their sound . But they definitely sounded good enough for me to take the dealer's invitation to come and listen to his BeoLab5s in his own living room.

IMO the most important difference between the 9 and the 5 is in the 5's automated room calibration system (whereas the 9 only has a toggle switch: free - wall - corner) to control the bass. So the 5 has a DSP (and a good one for that matter), but the amplification is still analog (AB for tweeter and mid, ICE for bass and sub). The 9 also uses AB and ICE amps, IIRC.

Which is not 'digital' amplification, like the Opalum system Oldric introduced here on the forum. Opalum, Lyngdorf, NAD-DD, ... use a PCM to PWM converter (i.e. digital to digital), with the signal in the digital domain in the whole amplification stage, until it is turned to analog through a filter (not a DAC) just before the drivers.

In that aspect, the Zero1 is closer to the BeoLabs than to complete digital systems, like AudioVector Discreet.

[If I'm talking b°ll°cks here, any more knowledgeable member is kindly invited to correct me ]

 

[WishTree]

In that aspect, the Zero1 is closer to the BeoLabs than to complete digital systems, like AudioVector Discreet.

[If I'm talking b°ll°cks here, any more knowledgeable member is kindly invited to correct me ]

I like the concept of Zero 1 and likes! Just ran past the idea with the 'you know who' and though she is the most supportive person that I have ever known, she did not dig into the monolithic giantness

I guess I have to spring her into a demo to see if things can change. She does get a veto on the looks but we are sure to get a set up in the next few months.

Please keep writing in your auditions. May be you will be able to help us getting our next set up.

 

[DocG]

I like the concept of Zero 1 and likes! Just ran past the idea with the 'you know who' and though she is the most supportive person that I have ever known, she did not dig into the monolithic giantness

I guess I have to spring her into a demo to see if things can change. She does get a veto on the looks but we are sure to get a set up in the next few months.

You know what the bad news is? They are bigger in real life than they look on the pictures! I just hope the white version might look 'lighter', but I haven't confronted my wife yet. Not before I'm sure I want them.

But if I want them, I have a cunning plan already! I'll ask the dealer to present the Zeros next to a pair of Quad ESLs... :twisted:

 

[WishTree]

But if I want them, I have a cunning plan already! I'll ask the dealer to present the Zeros next to a pair of Quad ESLs... :twisted:

That is evil ! >)

 

[Superaintit]

Just tell your wife she can have as many shoes/clothing etc with the same budget of your speakers and I'm sure no one will complain :shifty:

 

[DocG]

Just tell your wife she can have as many shoes/clothing etc with the same budget of your speakers and I'm sure no one will complain :shifty:

Not sure my wife will be prepared to restrict her expenses for vital supplies like shoes and purses to the budget of my audio lunacy. ray:

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

(BTW, I heard Beoplay A9 recently, and it is in a different league with bass integration and sound presentation. It beats the Zeppelin Air, that we have at home with out breaking a sweat but it also does exceedingly well than the other HiFi I have put together over years. I really can not imagine why would I need anything beyond that for any of my listening except that I want to have HT built into my HiFi set up. )

well, just imagine how Zeppelin would sound like if it sported drives of the size that are used in the Beo9 and the drivers were widely spaced... or conversely, do you think any such sytem Zeppelin-like has any right to sound good? I think if it wasn't for the DSP such sytems would never happened because nobody would pay money for nothing more than a "modern sculpture". if you do look for a sculpture you sertainly wouldn't look for it in an electronics store, would you?