AUDITION: MARANTZ PM6003 – YAMAHA A-S500 - CAMBRIDGE AUDIO 650A amp

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

mathewpiano:

I've had a lot of good suggestions about quality speaker upgrades ....Focal 706v, Castle Nights etc, but there's a bit of jump in price. A lot of people are enthusiastic about Lektor 2's, more so than the BX2 and others at the top end of the budget class.

With a few mentioning brightness with the BX2's I'm compeled towards the Dali's.

As I said at the start of the thread I also noticed a slight brightness about aviano 1's when with the pm6003 and more so with the a-s500.

Will there be a dramatic improvement with Lektor 2's over 9.1s

 

[Sizzers]

Hello All,

mathewpiano:

I've had a lot of good suggestions about quality speaker upgrades ....Focal 706v, Castle Nights etc, but there's a bit of jump in price. A lot of people are enthusiastic about Lektor 2's, more so than the BX2 and others at the top end of the budget class.

With a few mentioning brightness with the BX2's I'm compeled towards the Dali's.

As I said at the start of the thread I also noticed a slight brightness about aviano 1's when with the pm6003 and more so with the a-s500.

Will there be a dramatic improvement with Lektor 2's over 9.1s

Yes.

Although I've not heard the 9.1's with the Marantz I have heard them with the Denon DM37, and as good as I thought they were I much preferred Tannnoy F1 Customs. They are both great budget speakers IMO but best suited to budget micro systems or really budget seperates (and the Marantz is wasted on the Customs, I've tested them).

Now I know just about zero about computer based music, but can't say I've read anywhere a good thing said about playing through a sound card. Try PP's test, and if that shows there is no brightness in your speakers - and I don't consider the Diamonds to be a bright speaker - then I would perhaps think about getting the DAC first.

 

[matthewpiano]

When I had my PM6003 and Lektor 2s I also had my old Diamond 9.1s here (still do, actually). I did compare the two different speakers and the Lektor 2s leave the Diamonds for dust.

I've had a lot of different set-ups (!) and the PM6003/Lektor 2 combo stands as one of the best I've had. Speaker wise I've had Aviano 1s, Lektor 2s, Diamond 9.1s, Avant 902is, MA BR2s, Mission 792 (amongst others) and the Lektors were the best of those. I also feel that out of the Yamaha A-S500, Rotel RA-04SE, Cambridge 650A and NAD C326BEE amps I've had, the PM6003 was the best.

My latest set-up is another big step up again, utilising a pair of Mission 751s that I purchased some time ago and a 2nd hand Creek amp that has a passive pre-amp stage, but as long as you are less restless than me (I love trying lots of different combinations), the Marantz/Dali combination will keep you entertained for a long time.

 

[Sizzers]

I've had a lot of different set-ups (!).

Really?

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

mathewpiano:

Thanks for your input, my minds made up it will be the dali's I buy (no one has put the BX2 forward with any conviction).

Do you think I'll see a greater improvement from the speakers instead of a dac?

That Creek/mission combo must be really a decent piece of kit. How much did it cost to put together?

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

plastic penguin:

I've just attached our spare lg 37 inch lcd to the amp (via headphone socket) and I also attached a crappy Tesco's Technika (£11) mp3 player and had a listen. Both these devices had less treble but I think there's a definite hard on these speakers, highs still have a little too much glare.

However this little test has opened my eyes (or should I say ears), I think the soundcard will have to go also, there's a bit of an hard edge to it.

sizzers:

Thanks for the info about the 9.1/F1 customs. As I stated earlier in this thread that the 9.1s are now getting long in the tooth and are the budget end of the budget class itself. The dual upgrade now looks obvious to me, but whch one first?

It would be just my luck to get a dac and find out its brightened up my system.

 

[matthewpiano]

I paid about £180 for the Creek and £100 for the Missions. My Marantz CD63SE (which, like the Missions, I've had for some time) was about £100. So, £380 in total. It is superb and has converted me to buying 2nd hand. The missing piece between the CD and speakers was the amp. The Creek is pretty incredible and works very well with the 751s, which I reckon must be some of the best speakers Mission ever made.

 

[the record spot]

Welcome back Matthew, long time no see around here. Welcome back to the body of the kirk.

EDIT: And very glad to hear the 751s are still doing sterling service by the way!

 

[Sizzers]

I paid about £180 for the Creek and £100 for the Missions. My Marantz CD63SE (which, like the Missions, I've had for some time) was about £100. So, £380 in total. It is superb and has converted me to buying 2nd hand. The missing piece between the CD and speakers was the amp. The Creek is pretty incredible and works very well with the 751s, which I reckon must be some of the best speakers Mission ever made.

I briefly had a pair of Mission 780SE's which I VERY STUPIDLY SOLD after about 2 months. BIG mistake.

EDIT: And they'd have cured your glare!

 

[the record spot]

That Creek/mission combo must be really a decent piece of kit. How much did it cost to put together?

If you're interested in trying out a pair of 751s Bob, check out Gumtree in Aberdeen, there's a chap there selling a pair in good nick for £50. Worth checking if he still has the box and might post them down to you (can't recall if you're in the UK or not, but if so, you mightbe in luck and they are every bit as good as MP suggests). I had a pair of 751s back in the early 90s and now have the 752 floorstander which is simply astonishing for the price you can snag a pair (mine were £80) and I have to say you'll need to spend a very significant sum to better either of them.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello All,

plastic penguin:

I've just attached our spare lg 37 inch lcd to the amp (via headphone socket) and I also attached a crappy Tesco's Technika (£11) mp3 player and had a listen. Both these devices had less treble but I think there's a definite hard on these speakers, highs still have a little too much glare.

However this little test has opened my eyes (or should I say ears), I think the soundcard will have to go also, there's a bit of an hard edge to it.

sizzers:

Thanks for the info about the 9.1/F1 customs. As I stated earlier in this thread that the 9.1s are now getting long in the tooth and are the budget end of the budget class itself. The dual upgrade now looks obvious to me, but whch one first?

It would be just my luck to get a dac and find out its brightened up my system.

Pleased it was a worthwhile exercise. Is the Marantz brand new? if so, then new amps and brightness tend to be synonymous. Give it couple of weeks to bed-in and see how the "glare" is then.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

Mathewpiano:

You've done well to put together such quality so cheaply.

sizzers & record spot:

I've just looked on gumtree Aberdeen they're still there, but would you know it pick up only! I don't fancy a 600 mile car round trip for them. They sound a real step up - pity.

plastic penguin:

Yep the amp is new, well actually an open box from RS. It's absolutely mint/pristine, the remote and manual still sealed up and I got it for £220 including 5 year warranty. How long does it take a solid state device to "run in", I would have thought that after its been on for a couple of hours and reached a good working temp that all it need?

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello All,

Mathewpiano:

You've done well to put together such quality so cheaply.

sizzers & record spot:

I've just looked on gumtree Aberdeen they're still there, but would you know it pick up only! I don't fancy a 600 mile car round trip for them. They sound a real step up - pity.

plastic penguin:

Yep the amp is new, well actually an open box from RS. It's absolutely mint/pristine, the remote and manual still sealed up and I got it for £220 including 5 year warranty. How long does it take a solid state device to "run in", I would have thought that after its been on for a couple of hours and reached a good working temp that all it need?

There is some debate about whether an amp needs running in. I remember the treble on my old Arcam DIVA took about as week and a half (having the amp on for several hours each day) before it became really tight. Others would say it is purely ones ears adjusting to the sound, I think that has validity.

Either way I'd be inclined to give the Marantz a couple of weeks before making any snap judgement.

 

[matthewpiano]

If you go for a DAC consider the Musical Fidelity V-DAC. More organic and fluid than the DacMagic and less of a tendency towards brightness than the Beresford. Good value too!

 

[tonky]

It cost Mathewpiano a lot of money to reach this high quality low cost system!

 

[matthewpiano]

Not really. I've usually done pretty well buying and selling kit and my experiments have largely been self financing, give or take a couple of blips along the way.

 

[Blackdawn]

I've usually done pretty well buying and selling kit.

Good to see you back matthewpiano. Is that the second or third time you've had a system consisting of Missions?! By the way is the Creek a receiver, any specs? Whats the R? Cheers.

Azurbob, are you going to change your name to Marabob now you have a new amp. only kidding.. By the way, the Dali Lektor 2 seems like the best bet for you if your going new. You can pick them up on ebay for less that £200 btw

 

[matthewpiano]

I've usually done pretty well buying and selling kit.

Good to see you back matthewpiano. Is that the second or third time you've had a system consisting of Missions?! By the way is the Creek a receiver, any specs? Whats the R? Cheers. Azurbob, are you going to change your name to Marabob now you have a new amp. only kidding.. By the way, the Dali Lektor 2 seems like the best bet for you if your going new. You can pick them up on ebay for less that £200 btw

Hi Blackdawn. The Creek is an integrated amp. Very simple - just a volume control, input selector and power switch. The R stands for remote control (also very simple). They also did a non-remote 4330, and a 4330SE. Its 40 wpc (the non-remote version was 35wpc), and utilises a passive pre-amp stage. Was current in 2001. Think an equivalent new amp would cost a small fortune.

I've had the Mission 751s for quite some time and they've come in and out of various set-ups. I've always liked them but felt that they had more to give. When I tried them on the end of the Creek I realised that feeling was right. They are quite stunning when powered with such a high quality amp. My 751s are the original version with the metal tweeters (the 751 Freedom changed to a soft tweeter) but they are NEVER bright and completely avoid splashiness with cymbals etc.

I have also had Mission 792s which, whilst more recent, never really matched up to the 751s.

 

[Blackdawn]

Looks like a decent amp, that Creek. Just had a look. Bet it sounds really good too. Wish Mission made some front ported 8 inch driver speakers like the original 700's, a similar size to my Klipsch would be nice.

Azurbob have you decided yet which speakers to buy. Interested to know what you decide on in the end.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

mathewpiano:

I've read a few reviews of the V-Dac & magicdac and they've been good, but It's not upgradeable in any way unlike the Beresford 7520, there's so much that can be done to this amp including changing the opamps which can have an effect. Some of the reviews for the Beresford have stated there's some brightness to start but it goes away after about a week.

I went on ebay and had a look for those Mission 751's, no sign of them!

blackdawn:

I was a bit too quick in calling myself AzurBob, I but the Marantz a week or so later. I noticed from your system spec at the bottom of your post that you have an Asus xonar, do you not find it bright like me? Or do you use a dac?

I've decided on the Dali Lektor 2's, unless I discover another brand of quality of second hands on ebay soon.

I expect to either go for the dali's or a beresford 7520 dac this weekend.

 

[Blackdawn]

Hello All,

mathewpiano:

I've read a few reviews of the V-Dac & magicdac and they've been good, but It's not upgradeable in any way unlike the Beresford 7520, there's so much that can be done to this amp including changing the opamps which can have an effect. Some of the reviews for the Beresford have stated there's some brightness to start but it goes away after about a week.

I went on ebay and had a look for those Mission 751's, no sign of them!

blackdawn:

I noticed from your system spec at the bottom of your post that you have an Asus xonar, do you not find it bright like me? Or do you use a dac?

I've decided on the Dali Lektor 2's, unless I discover another brand of quality of second hands on ebay soon.

I expect to either go for the dali's or a beresford 7520 dac this weekend.

With the Beresford I would go fo the Caiman model as this already has all of the tweaks like different Op Amps etc. Alternative makes such as the MF VDAC would also be fine.

I'm really impressed with my Asus Xonar DS soundcard running in Direct X 11 win 7. Sounds really good to me. I use lossless WAV files. The version I have is great value at about £38, swappable OpAmps. I have OpAmp LM4562NA. I'm listening to the Haydn (Creation) The Doors and Black Sabbath just before at approx 1411kbps. No problem with brightness using Sennheiser headphones. Maybe its less noticable than through speakers as the headphones go to a lower frequency (20Hz) than your 9.1's. Have you tried headphones? Anyway very impressed with the Asus Xonar.

I have a pair of Lektor 2's. They are very nice but maybe you want larger speakers if you have a larger size room.

 

[Blackdawn]

Azurbob, By the way I don't use an external DAC. The Asus Xonar is just to improve the music from my PC and only my headphones are connected not an amplifier like yours.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

blackdawn:

I'm kicking myself over this opmap thing, I didn't read the reviews thoroughly enough. My card the D1 is not opamp upgradeable, if I'd have paid a bit more attention I might have had the option to upgrade and it may have made a difference to my setup.

Having said that you're listening through headphones and I'm not - who Knows?

As far as I'm concerned it's not worth it getting another soundcard, I'll go down the external dac route for quality.

My room is only 12 x 12 ft, don't really need that much power to fill it.

 

[Blackdawn]

Another thought can you borrow someones DAC to test on your system?

Anyway, with HiFi I like to work backwards and find speakers I like before anything else.

 

[Anonymous]

Blackdawn:

There's no one I know who an hi-fi dac, I'll probably sort the speakers first (then I'll have the two main elements sorted amp+speakers and take it from there).